When to spay?

[GeckoGal]

I' m planning on spaying my puppy. At what age should I have it done? In the past I have had my dogs spayed at 6 months, but someone told me that it is recommended to wait until the dog is older in the larger breed dogs. I am willing to wait, but I do not want to go through a heat with Ella. At what age do English Mastiffs generally go into heat? I want to do the best thing for my little (but not little for long) girl.

 

[musicdeb]

It is recommended to not de-sex until 18-24 months so the pup can have all of the hormones necessary to grow healthy.

Health Issues Linked to Spaying and Neutering Dogs

 

[Sadies Mom]

As far as when the dogs go into heat, that varies a lot. It can be anywhere from 9-14 months. I had Sadie spayed at 6 months at the advise of my vet and I did not know any better. I have had all my dogs spayed at that age, but this is my first giant breed dog. Sadie is suffering from spay-induced incontinence and she needs to take meds every day for the rest of her life. PLEASE......wait as long as you can. Let her, at a minimum, have one heat cycle.

 

[QY10]

Having a dog in heat really isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Thalia went through a number if heat cycles before we got her spayed.

She wore panties in the house, which she got used to. She wasn't bothered by them and didn't try taking them off after the first few days of wearing them.

She didn't wear them in her crate, so we washed her bedding daily.

She didn't wear them outside obviously, but she was in the yard daily playing fetch with us (we don't have neighbors so the fear of a male dog getting to her wasn't really there).

Like anything new, once you get into a routine, it's not a lot of extra work at all. It just becomes second nature.

Thal's heat cycles lasted about 3 weeks each and a dog typically goes into heat twice a year. So, the minimal extra work involved is so worth your dogs health.

 

[krisx]

before, i was all for spraying/neutering, as soon as humanely possible. but then i had a male dog that had more issues than i care to think about. it didn't really help him, still had mayor issues. he did get a bad elbow. don't know if he would have gotten it without neutering or not, but it does increase the risk. if your dog is unmanageable and has dominance, aggression problems, it is a valid option for you to do it. if there is any way you can cope without it, don't do it, there is no real guarantee that it will help. at least wait until he/she is well into adulthood. (2y-3y)

now, my dog is a she, and has a wonderful calm and sweet temperament. no issues with aggression/dominance or anything like ti. (thank you Gods!). before i wasn't so sure, but i wanted to give her a chance. so i waited, to see what her heat will be like. we did go through her heat cycle a month ago, and please don't be intimidated by vets. it really is no big deal. all it needs is some getting used to new routine.
we put a plastic carpet down for her. there isn't so much blood like with human period. when outside, i had her on lead. we do have neighborhood dogs who came to visit. we just shoo them away. her personality didn't drastically change, she wanted to cuddle more, and humped her toys.... but ok, i don't hold that against her, lol. all those hormones must come out somewhere..

all it really takes is a little management and responsibility on your part. you must know that dogs are born with all their bits with a reason. and every heat cycle you allow her to have will greatly contribute to her long term health.

 

[Cathy]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, haven't participated in any discussions. We had Samson neutered when he was six months old, but only because we had an older female English mastiff ,and we didn't want her bred. We had made the decision not to have Cleopatra spayed because of problems with incontinence with previous large breeds that we had. We lost her to cancer a few weeks after she turned seven yrs old this last December. Did not having her spayed ,contribute to the cancer, l don't know, but I do know that she never had incontinence, which in itself is a huge mess compared to having your baby go through with her heat cycles. As for Samson,who has been neutered at such a young age, I don't know, he's half bull and half English, and so far so good. After Cleo left us so suddenly, there was a huge void in our lives, we made the decision to get another female English, Delilah, who is now nine months old. Our wonderful new vet did not push spaying ,instead she would like her to grow up for a good year or two and then we can consider spaying. Delilah has already gone thru one heat cycle and it was nothing, other than Samson acting like an idiot.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Its healthier for the males, to wait to neuter too. Cathy you may never have a problem, but more and more studies are showing that the earlier a dog is neutered (or spayed) the higher their risk for several (highly fatal) cancers, as well as joint problems. Plus removing the hormones so early in their growth cycles means that their bone structure literally doesn't mature properly. Some dogs remain smaller, with less massive "mature structures" such as head-shape. While others end up with long skinny bones that are more fragile (and also have less standard mature structures of the head etc). Depends on when exactly the hormones were removed from the dog. (there are of course exceptions to that "rule" on how they mature after neuter, genetics of course plays a factor)

Of course when you have both intact males and females in a house decisions have to be made and realistic expectations as to if you can keep the dog away from the bitch. But as a general rule neither should be spayed/neutered before the age of 1.5yrs as a minimum in order to avoid affecting their growth, and especially for males, 2.5yrs is a better age (males mature slower than females). I will note, that for these giant breeds, its not impossible for the bitch to only have 1 heat cycle by the age of 1.5yrs.

A look at several studies combined into one paper: http://www.2ndchance.info/cruciatelongtermneuter.htm and a click-able set of links for the studies: Spay and Neuter Decisions - References

A recent study done on Goldens: PLOS ONE: Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers

An even more recent study done on Vizslas: http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/vizsla_javma_study.pdf

The only cancer that's HIGHER risk by not spaying/neutering is mammary cancer for the bitches, and testicular cancer for the males.

Actual average risk for breast cancer for an intact adult female dog is about 30%, which btw is the same as it is for US adult human females. And only about 4% of the actual cancer cases are fatal.

Testicular cancers appear to have had less work done on them. And study results vary. I've seen studies that say the over all risk is as low as 17% and others that say 50%, but it also appears to depend on the age of the dog AND on the TYPE of cancer, and the most common testicular cancer is benign (though it can affect the prostate). The VSSO also has a page on this: Testicular Tumors but they don't break it down the way they did for the bitches. They do say that its unusual for a dog under the age of 6yrs to develop testicular cancer, while as much as 50% of the dogs over the age of 10yrs will have it in some form though again, the most common type is benign. One thing that all the studies agree on is that the actual fatality rate from testicular cancer is really really small, and thats because its very very simple to remove the cancer site as soon as its diagnosed, you simply neuter the dog!

 

[Cathy]

Thank you ,ruthcatrin, for the info . I knew Samson was neutered too soon and like you did a little more research. I was disappointed in myself for listening to the vet. The same vet wanted to know when we were planning on having Cleo spayed when she was only ten weeks old. A couple of months before she passed away we changed vets and this clinic is wonderful.I like the fact that they are open to the raw feeding, alternatives to dealing with health issues and not pushing the spaying and neutering. Cleo had bone cancer and from the time we took her in for tests for a lump on her rib she was gone in 3 months it was so fast, and all I could think of , was , should we have spayed her, was it unfortunate genetics, etc. Now we have Delilah,the dog sitter stopped taking her because she went into heat and told me she would have to be spayed before she could come back, told her then, see you in another year or so. I want her to have long healthy life.

 

[krisx]

*CLAPS*

just hold in there, and dont allow your self to be pressured. this is much better for your dog.
here in europe, its a bit different, we dont have so much preconceived notions that you MUST spray, otherwise your a bad irresponsible owner. not so.
all you need is a little patience, a leash or a fence and some good will. you'll be fine. like people, some dogs just get cancer, really sorry it was yours.

if you wanna see what neutering young really does, google 'castrati'. they were 18. century male singers who had it done, so their voice would never change.
get a picture of them older. they never really grew into proper men. had funny girly look that got just plain weird as they grew older.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Good! Having the right vet helps immensely. Mastiffs in general do tend to be cancer prone in general unfortunately. A combination of bad breeding in many lines, and a deliberate attempt to breed the overall breed larger IMO. That 7yr life span is, unfortunately, not unusual.

 

[ruthcatrin]

if you wanna see what neutering young really does, google 'castrati'. they were 18. century male singers who had it done, so their voice would never change.
get a picture of them older. they never really grew into proper men. had funny girly look that got just plain weird as they grew older.

I think thats one of my peeves about the whole "YOU MUST SPAY/NEUTER YOUR DOG" thing the USA has going. There were even studies done that "prove" that its safe to neuter so young. But I've read those studies, and they're so limited its laugh-able. And we KNOW that removing the hormones does BAD THINGS to humans, even when its in the normal course of menopause. So how did we ever let ourselves become convinced that its safe and healthy to do so for our pets?

 

[kguitarchic18]

I am trying to wait until at least 18 months as well. Zola is a cane corso, went into heat at about 10 months. She is very well trained, so we had her basically stay on her "place" unless we were going outside. Mainly would just grab an old blanket for her to lay on (washed daily) and some baby wipes, and after she was laying down to go outside, just blot/wipe and you are good to walk them outside. She was very fatigued which made it easy to keep her calm, all she wanted to do was sleep all day. If we took her anywhere we would just put on the little diaper and she was fine. Its just like everyone said, not a huge deal, but you get into a new routine for a few weeks.

 

[GeckoGal]

I will plan to wait as long as possible, but I'm concerned about keeping her "safe" if/when she goes into heat before I get her fixed. I work during the day and she is home by herself with my other dogs. She is too big rambunctious to be left in the house unattended. That leaves outside as my only option and there is no where out there that I could put her that a male dog wouldn't be able to get to her. Suggestions?

 

[Sharrielynne]

Hi to all Mastiff owners
Just wanted to warn anyone thinking of spaying their bitches at age 2 or over. I just had my Neoxmastiff spayed, not because I wanted to, but because of inconsiderate male dog owners just letting their dogs run loose. I appreciate the fact that a dog can smell a bitch in heat up to 3 miles away, but I have had a bitch come in season for 12 years until her death and NEVER had a litter from her because I make sure she is taken care of, however we now have a lot more entire dogs that have moved in to our area with their owners and I just cannot fight off 6 or 7 dogs from my bitch when I walk her on a leash to go to the toilet.
My poor girl had her op, I got her home and she started bleeding from the wound the following morning, luckily I was watching her very carefully because blood suddenly started gushing from the wound, so I rushed her back to the vets (over 40 miles away as we live in the country) and we has put a bandage on her so hopefully all will be well. This can happen to big breed dogs and I was extra aware of the fact after already having lost a wolfhound the same way several years ago. I had left my baby tied to a tree so she wouldn't run around with a large bone to keep her occupied. unfortunately she saw a friend across the road, jumped up excitedly and broke her stitches, her insides fell out, by the time we had rushed her to the vet shock had set in and we couldn't save her. So I had to think long and hard before spaying Mia, why did I do it? A bitch down the road ended up getting ripped to pieces by dogs fighting over her. Please owners of entire males try to keep your dogs under control. I know the same problem happens with bitches in season getting out, but there are so many people mistreating unwanted puppies, we have to start taking responsibility for our dogs. If you spay your bitch, watch her carefully until her stitches are out! Hopefully this will prevent a tragedy like mine.

 

[Sharrielynne]

I will plan to wait as long as possible, but I'm concerned about keeping her "safe" if/when she goes into heat before I get her fixed. I work during the day and she is home by herself with my other dogs. She is too big rambunctious to be left in the house unattended. That leaves outside as my only option and there is no where out there that I could put her that a male dog wouldn't be able to get to her. Suggestions?

Am old aviary works very well. Concrete it in though! Make sure it has small mesh as dogs have been known to still manage to mate through large mesh. Amazing though it sounds it can happen!

 

[totravel01]

Its healthier for the males, to wait to neuter too. Cathy you may never have a problem, but more and more studies are showing that the earlier a dog is neutered (or spayed) the higher their risk for several (highly fatal) cancers, as well as joint problems.

A look at several studies combined into one paper: http://www.2ndchance.info/cruciatelongtermneuter.htm and a click-able set of links for the studies: Spay and Neuter Decisions - References

A recent study done on Goldens: PLOS ONE: Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers

An even more recent study done on Vizslas: http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/vizsla_javma_study.pdf

The only cancer that's HIGHER risk by not spaying/neutering is mammary cancer for the bitches, and testicular cancer for the males.

Actual average risk for breast cancer for an intact adult female dog is about 30%, which btw is the same as it is for US adult human females. And only about 4% of the actual cancer cases are fatal.

Testicular cancers appear to have had less work done on them. And study results vary. I've seen studies that say the over all risk is as low as 17% and others that say 50%, but it also appears to depend on the age of the dog AND on the TYPE of cancer, and the most common testicular cancer is benign (though it can affect the prostate). The VSSO also has a page on this: Testicular Tumors but they don't break it down the way they did for the bitches. They do say that its unusual for a dog under the age of 6yrs to develop testicular cancer, while as much as 50% of the dogs over the age of 10yrs will have it in some form though again, the most common type is benign. One thing that all the studies agree on is that the actual fatality rate from testicular cancer is really really small, and thats because its very very simple to remove the cancer site as soon as its diagnosed, you simply neuter the dog!

@ruthcatrin - you cite these studies but these are for other breeds - perhaps there is an actual link in certain breeds and spay/neutering but does anyone know if there has been any research done linking mastiffs and spay/neuter? If there is, I would be interested in reading it. Our 17 week old puppy is scheduled to be neutered in late October and I have been going back and forth on whether to have it done or not.

 

[Kpax]

We neutered my Bullmastiff at eight months and it was simply ignorance on my part, I did not research the topic in advance and listened to the advice of my vet. Will he have health issues in the future? I don't know. He is almost a year old and has never shown any aggressive behaviors, he is good with other dogs, loves people and accepts guests into our home very well. There is no way of knowing if desexing played any role in that. There seems to be an enormous amount of conflicting data on the internet, each camp has their own "conclusive" evidence that supports their cause. We enjoy going to the dog park, our dog absolutely loves it too. Neuter/Spay is mandatory at our dog park; so in this respect I don't regret neutering him because he has a lot of fun there and so do we.

 

[Sadies Mom]

Health Issues Linked to Spaying and Neutering Dogs

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Penelope is five months old now and I am waiting until she is 2 to have her spayed. I live with two other male dogs, one still in tact, so I'll have my work cut out for me when she gets her first heat. We have one male that was neutered way too young and because of it, he can't keep weight on. Knowing what I do now about giant breeds, I wouldn't do that to her.

 

[Sharrielynne]

17 weeks is far too early to have your puppy desexed IMO. Is there a reason why you need to have her done at 17 weeks? Do you have a boy or a girl? Boy, you have no problem at all, just her him away from bitches in heat. Girl you only have a problem 1. If you are a clean freak,but mostly she will clean up after herself, just have a few old towels you can throw on the couch. 2. If you continue to walk her at the dog park (Have some thought for the un neutered male dogs) 3. You live in an area where there are inconsiderate un neutered male dog owners who let their boys roam! Remember a bitch is only on heat for 3 weeks, once a year usually in the bigger breeds. I have had several large breed bitches and had no problems, they all except one,remained intact for their lifetimes with NO unwanted pregnancies. The one I lost after she was de sexed I had to have done due to a prolapsed womb. This year I had to succumb and had Mia done due to problem number 3. See earlier post by me in this thread.