what do you guys think of this RAW food?

[jcook]

http://www.smallbatchpets.com/hometest1.html

My boyfriend would like to get this for his bulldog and I would probably feed it to Stella occasionally. some of the batches or blends seem really lo in calcium and phosphorus. I need clarification of how to determine whether a food is complete or not. Thanks

 

[ruthcatrin]

Was it the batch patties and sliders or the blends?

The numbers do look low, but there are a couple different ways to calculate such things, what we usually see on pet food is a Guaranteed Analysis, but you can also calculate by Dry Matter, and I'm wondering if thats what they've done. I'll see if I can dig out a formula to convert Dry Matter to GA so as to give you a comparable figure and see if that makes more sense. I also emailed them to see if they can tell me which formula they used. If it came down to it adding an extra chicken leg once a day wouldn't be the end of the world.

---------- Post added at 10:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

I take it back, it looks like they may be pulling info directly from the USDA's database. I need to go find my reference to figure out how to calculate....

 

[ruthcatrin]

I take it back, it looks like they may be pulling info directly from the USDA's database. I need to go find my reference to figure out how to calculate....

 

[ruthcatrin]

Ok, I only did the math for the Beef Blend SmallBatch Blend, and yes, its way low calcium (assuming I did my math right, which I'm not going to swear too, it gets complicated when you're switching around). I'm always a bit iffy too, when someone else is blending the organs and doesn't give the full analysis for the various vitamins/nutrients, cause it makes me wonder what their percentages are. I guess my clue should have been their line about "We suggest adding your own veggies, supplements and herbs adequate for your pet."

I guess what I'm saying is that it'd work for an occasional meal probly, supplemented with a drumstick or the like, but I don't know that I'd want to feed it to a growing dog full time.

 

[jcook]

Ya, I was confused because all the numbers vary so much! What ratio of calcium to phosphorus should I be looking for? How do I do this math on my own lol?

 

[ruthcatrin]

its complicated lol. If we go by the requirements of what we look for in kibble then you want a Dry Matter figure between 1-1.8% (most dry kibble, technically they're giving you the GM numbers, but its dry kibble, the DM numbers aren't usually much off from that). To figure DM (using the Beef Blend SmallBatch blend numbers as an example): 71% of the total is moisture (this is about right for raw food), so 29% is everything else. Take the number you want to calculate, in this case they give the calcium as .05% and divide by that 29, then multiply by 100 and you have the percentage of calcium in dry matter numbers. So .05/29=.0017x100=.17% calcium.

Now according to an article I pulled up for Moonglow a while back that range of ideal calcium is approx equal to 3g of calcium per 1000kcal, Or this article for DogAware suggests 800 - 1000mg of calcium per lb of food. I haven't tried to figure out if those two numbers are reasonably close in range cause kcal varies depending on what the food in question is and I'm lazy......but since we're talking beef heart, 1lb of beef heart has approx 508kcal, so the ideal would be 1.5g of calcium, which is a bit more than the DogAware article suggests but not excessively so IMO, especially since heart is a particularly dense high energy meat.

I'm not sure if thats going to help or confuse though....it made sense as I was typing it lol

 

[DennasMom]

Are you stuck on a pre-mix, or have you looked at just buying grocery store products and 'mixing' your own?
I've found it much less stressful when you have complete control over the contents.

There are some AAFCO raw products out there, I think Nature's Variety is one that's well distributed now. I'd still have the same questions on ultimate analysis, though that you have on this other one.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I'd be willing to work with a premix as long as they gave me at least some nutrient numbers to check, more than just protein/fat/calcium, so I can check what they're doing. This one hardly gives anything and practically orders you to supplement. There was anotherone linked to recently, that didn't give ANYTHING, and theres just no way I'd feed it with out that.

 

[DennasMom]

I agree with you Ruth. We started with some pre-mix (added to kibble, which is also not recommended), but the more I read the more uncomfortable I was using something in unknown quantities for a growing mastiff. Plus, using 100% pre-mix would have broke the bank!

 

[jcook]

its complicated lol. If we go by the requirements of what we look for in kibble then you want a Dry Matter figure between 1-1.8% (most dry kibble, technically they're giving you the GM numbers, but its dry kibble, the DM numbers aren't usually much off from that). To figure DM (using the Beef Blend SmallBatch blend numbers as an example): 71% of the total is moisture (this is about right for raw food), so 29% is everything else. Take the number you want to calculate, in this case they give the calcium as .05% and divide by that 29, then multiply by 100 and you have the percentage of calcium in dry matter numbers. So .05/29=.0017x100=.17% calcium.

Now according to an article I pulled up for Moonglow a while back that range of ideal calcium is approx equal to 3g of calcium per 1000kcal, Or this article for DogAware suggests 800 - 1000mg of calcium per lb of food. I haven't tried to figure out if those two numbers are reasonably close in range cause kcal varies depending on what the food in question is and I'm lazy......but since we're talking beef heart, 1lb of beef heart has approx 508kcal, so the ideal would be 1.5g of calcium, which is a bit more than the DogAware article suggests but not excessively so IMO, especially since heart is a particularly dense high energy meat.

I'm not sure if thats going to help or confuse though....it made sense as I was typing it lol

Thank you! I'm starting to get it, just need to re-read a few times and do some research, but thank you, I really like being able to fully understand things and figure stuff out on my own.

I am not stuck on feeding the pre made raw, but my bf is for his dog. He doesn't want to feed Sampson raw bones, plus he isn't into the preparing of the food. Do you think Adam could feed Sampson that brand?? Sampson is almost 5. I wanted to give it occasionally because i don't know where to buy rabbits and ducks So I like the idea of being able to feed it on occasion.

Also, someone told me that I need to feed her organic meat other wise I'm loading her up on hormones and other bad stuff. But feeding organic meat would cost me fortune, do you guys think this is necessary?

 

[ruthcatrin]

I'd consider adding a decent multivitamin for Sampson, for long term feeding. Maybe not daily, bit a couple times a week.

If you're feeding human grade meats there are restrictions on how much hormones etc can be in the meat. Organic is cool of I can get it on clearence, but not a requirement.

 

[jcook]

I'd consider adding a decent multivitamin for Sampson, for long term feeding. Maybe not daily, bit a couple times a week.

If you're feeding human grade meats there are restrictions on how much hormones etc can be in the meat. Organic is cool of I can get it on clearence, but not a requirement.

Thank you!

 

[DennasMom]

I agree with Ruth.
Organic would break the bank, here! We just use grocery store/Costco goods (check for <100mg sodium per 4oz serving... a lot of poultry and pork is enhanced, which you don't want).

There are raw feeder co-ops that work to source grass-fed meats and do bulk purchases to keep costs low. "CarnivoreFeed-Supplier" is one that puts buyers and suppliers together. I see a lot of S. CA stuff on that list, too. It's a Yahoo Group.