Vets and Vaccinations! What a headache...

[mkj878]

I just took Mac to the vet today and I'm looking up some things to discuss with my vet. Mac recieved the distemper shot from the breeder right before I got him (at 6 weeks). At his initial exam the vet wanted to go ahead with the DA2PP (Distemper/Parvo shot) and I agreed because parvo is pretty common around here and I've lost a puppy to that and I don't want to risk it again. He got that again at 10 weeks and today at 14 weeks he got that as well as a nasal bordetella, as I was checking out they said they wanted him back in 3 weeks for ANOTHER DA2PP, bordetella, rabies(which I asked for at this visit but they insisted to wait), another fecal (every so far has been negative, and hes on Advantage Multi for two months now), then again in 4 more weeks for just the parvo and then in six months for another parvo. I mentioned that I wasn't comfortable with him having so many vaccinations and they got very stiff with me about the situation. They weren't rude but its just so offputting. I've gone through several vets the "local" ones are all kind of like old school country doctors and they really don't have the facilities (and sometimes knowledge) that I'm comfortable with, for instance my mother found a VERY pregnant dog and took her in (you could feel the puppies moving inside of her) and the vet "highly doubted she was pregnant", she had pups 3 days later...12 of them in fact. My cousin had a puppy with parvo, I've lost a pup with parvo as I said and I recognized the symptoms instantly, he claimed the pup had an upset tummy and prescribed some pills...well I assume you know what happened within 48 hours. Another vet I like is about 70 miles away, I thought I had finally found such an amazing vet, but they cost 2-3x as much as most vets and they also like to have a puppy in every few weeks until they're six months old aaaaand they . As much as I'd love to, I can't afford nearly $200 a trip for them. Then I found this vet, its only about 45 miles away and now this, I am not 100% comfortable with using Advantage Multi from what I've read and thats the ONLY heartworm preventative they sell, I mentioned some different options (including using an online pharmacy which is about 1/2 as much cost) and the vet changed the subject completely, as if I hadn't spoken at all. I feel like its a never ending cycle, I think I'm going to have to start trying to find a new vet again I guess.

sigh

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

I got to thinking after typing up this thread and looking at his "recipt" page. The page shows only the nasal bordatella and the DA2PP...but I distinctly remember the vet giving him a shot in each shoulder. So I called them up and asked...after sitting on hold for about 10 minutes she comes back and tells me they "accidentally" gave him his rabies shot. Therefore next trip he would've gotten it AGAIN. And also mentioned I'd have to pay for it in order to get his tag at the next trip. Personally I'm highly agitated that this was handled this way. I have no problem paying for the vaccination but a slip up like that is careless in my opinion. I'm very unhappy.

 

[mkj878]

Double Post

 

[ruthcatrin]

Ok, you need a new vet. First off.

Waiting at least 4 weeks between vaccinations is good. The vet 'accidently' giving him an extra shot, BAD. He will most likely not ever need another disptemper/parvo shot. Ask the vet about titering, if they really are as old school as they sound be prepared for them to hit the roof.

If his fecal was clear theres no need for another unless he gets diarrhea.

More when I'm home and not trying to type this out on my ipad......

 

[angelbears]

Two words...NEW VET. I would also be doing some research to see if giving the rabies shot to young can cause any problems.

Vaccines are not safe, like all other medicines and procedures. I'm not saying not to vax but I wouldn't over vax.

 

[mkj878]

Ok, you need a new vet. First off.

Waiting at least 4 weeks between vaccinations is good. The vet 'accidently' giving him an extra shot, BAD. He will most likely not ever need another disptemper/parvo shot. Ask the vet about titering, if they really are as old school as they sound be prepared for them to hit the roof.

If his fecal was clear theres no need for another unless he gets diarrhea.

More when I'm home and not trying to type this out on my ipad......

This vet isn't old school like the local ones, I once mentioned to the local vet that foods with chicken caused my great dane to have skin issues and he told me no such thing and recommended I get some pedigree as it has lamb, if I was that worried about it...and take her off the Taste of the Wild I was feeding.

This one I've been using with Mac was great up until this point. I didn't want to give him another distemper/parvo shot, thats why they seemed to get touchy with me. His fecal has been clear for every trip now, I'm really thinking hard about the situation. I also mentioned to them his next trip would be during the middle of me being out of the country, they suggested bringing him in early instead of late...that is definitely not something I want to do...

Two words...NEW VET. I would also be doing some research to see if giving the rabies shot to young can cause any problems.

Vaccines are not safe, like all other medicines and procedures. I'm not saying not to vax but I wouldn't over vax.

Definitely wanted him vaccinated, but you're very right I don't want to overdo it. Most vets here routinely vaccinate at 12 weeks, Mac is 14 today so I don't think I'll have any issues with him being too young.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Ok, so it might not be as bad as it could be, but its still not good. Ok, to save me typing do a search for threads on puppy shots, I typed out a big long post in one not THAT long ago. But definetly a bigger response coming once I'm home.

 

[mkj878]

Ok, so it might not be as bad as it could be, but its still not good. Ok, to save me typing do a search for threads on puppy shots, I typed out a big long post in one not THAT long ago. But definetly a bigger response coming once I'm home.

Okay great, thank you Ruth!

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Typical vets.......

Hope your little guy is ok.

 

[mastiffmedic]

Vets are just like Dr's, they don't like it when people actually think for themselves and they try and strong-arm you into doing what they want. Just do what you think is right and don't let the vet make you feel bad for using your brain and speaking your mind.

 

[mkj878]

http://shapingchaos.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/symptoms-of-rabies-vaccinosis/


All I have to say is OH WOW. To think the things that could've happened to my baby.

 

[angelbears]

http://shapingchaos.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/symptoms-of-rabies-vaccinosis/


All I have to say is OH WOW. To think the things that could've happened to my baby.

It can also have long term effects. It is very scary. As I said, "I'm not saying not to vax but I sure wouldn't over do it". Mine have had puppy shots but will get no more. If I ever get another puppy I will do one or maybe two rounds and that's it.

 

[mkj878]

Thanks, I'm glad I caught this. Nowhere in his record showed he got the rabies shot so I have no doubt he would've gotten it again. My next trip up there I'm going to tell him I want his tag, get him one more round of heartworm meds and leave. I'll just have to find another vet.

 

[voidecho]

That's just scary they "accidentally" gave him a shot and didn't document it.

I took Lincoln in on his 9 week birthday and they gave him what they considered his first set of shots. They said the five way the breeder gave him at six weeks was too early and doesn't count as one of his three sets of shots. I go back at 12 weeks for #2 and then around 15-16 weeks for #3. They want to do rabies right at 16 weeks, but I'll probably tell them I want to come back a couple of weeks after the third set to get the rabies vaccine. Per our county/city codes, I have 30 days after he turns 4 months to get him licensed and need proof of the rabies vaccine to get the license.

Seems like I'm going to be giving him a lot of shots.

 

[Smokeycat]

http://shapingchaos.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/symptoms-of-rabies-vaccinosis/


All I have to say is OH WOW. To think the things that could've happened to my baby.

I realize the risks involved with over vaccinating and I do agree OH WOW but not in agreement. The thought that almost all dogs have rabies to me is ridiculous. The author states " I realize that what I am presenting is based on “anecdotal evidenceâ€, but I find the argument both logical and compelling…" I in no way find their argument either logical or compelling. They take behaviors that might fit the behavior of a rabies case and use that to come to the conclusion that the dog snapping at the water hose or sprinkler is afraid of the water and since rabid animals fear water they must be rabid. I did find it amusing that they did state that there may be numerous reasons that the dog presents a certain behavior but since it could be rabies make sure you look for what other behaviors they have that could help determine if they have rabies vacinosis.

Sorry I'll stop now I just hate when people spout off with no facts, scientific data, to back up their position. Too many people take what they read on the Internet as fact without doing their own research.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Ok, if you didn't find it before here's my post on vaccinations in general: http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/5430-Puppy-shots?p=44457&viewfull=1#post44457 (so I don't have to retype TO much of it lol)

Also a list of side effects (immediete and long term) to watch for when it comes to vaccines in general: http://www.petfinder.com/pet-health/vaccinations-side-effects.html

Individual vaccines have individual side effects as well, for example: the Intratrac nasel spray for kennel cough has the common side effect of kennel cough type symptoms, HOWEVER a dog should NOT experience nausua and diarrhea as a side effect unless it was administered incorrectly, and in that case immediete medical attention is required. Anytime my vet will be administering a vaccine I ask for a copy of the package insert to take home with me, and if I'm not sure about the vaccine I ask for a copy of the insert FIRST to look over before allowing it to be administered.

In your case, pups ARE given rabies that early alot of places, I don't like it, but it happens. You're past the initial stages of worry (anaphylaxis and the like), just keep an eye on him in general and watch for bumps or limping on the limbs the vaccines were administered on.

The fact that the vet gave it "on accident" all by itself makes me want a different vet. If it really WAS an accident it shows MAJOR shoddy recordkeeping and care towards the animals. Personally I suspect that since you'd expressed displeasure at the thought of additional shots in general they decided to "just give it to be safe in case he doesn't come back" which makes me wonder what they'd have done if you'd not noticed and called....Either way: NEW VET.

Request a titer before allowing him to be given a 4th distemper/parvo. Titers aren't perfect, but after 3 shots I'd be very surprised if his antibody levels aren't well over the minimum required. Voidecho that goes for you too. 6 weeks is a COMMON age to give the first set of shots at. If your vet gives you a huge hassle over wanting a titer instead of automatically revaccinating: find a new vet.

I also have my vet rotate where the vaccines are administered. They actually put it in each of my dog's charts where this shot was placed, and its in big letters on the front of the chart to check and use the next shoulder/hip (going clockwise) for the next shot. Yes my vet thinks I'm crazy, but they also pointed out that rotating doesn't do any harm so why not.

Voidecho, when you say they gave him a "5 way vaccine" please tell me it wasn't a DHLPP??

 

[voidecho]

I don't have the paper work with me but it was called Canine Spectra Five. That's what he got at six weeks. Breeder said he'd need two more shots. Vet is saying three more after the one given at six weeks....then rabies at the same time as last round of shots.

I'm guessing this is what it was.

http://www.drugs.com/vet/canine-spectra-5.html

 

[ruthcatrin]

Seriously, the date (make it no earlier than the 16 week mark, just tell your vet your schedule is such that you can't get in before then) that your vet wants to administer that last distemper/parvo shot insist on a titer instead (you may really have to insist, don't let them bully you) and have them do the rabies shot then. It'll take a good week or longer to get the titer results back, so if it turns out that his antibiody levels AREN'T high enough (which honestly would surprise me), you can easily push that out another couple weeks so that the vaccines aren't on top of each other.

Ok, that vaccine I don't have a problem with (well, I DO, but not the same way), I was worried it was the DHLPP version though, which is basically that Spectra 5 AND the lepto vaccine all in one and I was going to tell you to hit the roof if they'd done that without warning you....

 

[mkj878]

Ok, if you didn't find it before here's my post on vaccinations in general: http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/5430-Puppy-shots?p=44457&viewfull=1#post44457 (so I don't have to retype TO much of it lol)

Also a list of side effects (immediete and long term) to watch for when it comes to vaccines in general: http://www.petfinder.com/pet-health/vaccinations-side-effects.html

Individual vaccines have individual side effects as well, for example: the Intratrac nasel spray for kennel cough has the common side effect of kennel cough type symptoms, HOWEVER a dog should NOT experience nausua and diarrhea as a side effect unless it was administered incorrectly, and in that case immediete medical attention is required. Anytime my vet will be administering a vaccine I ask for a copy of the package insert to take home with me, and if I'm not sure about the vaccine I ask for a copy of the insert FIRST to look over before allowing it to be administered.

In your case, pups ARE given rabies that early alot of places, I don't like it, but it happens. You're past the initial stages of worry (anaphylaxis and the like), just keep an eye on him in general and watch for bumps or limping on the limbs the vaccines were administered on.

The fact that the vet gave it "on accident" all by itself makes me want a different vet. If it really WAS an accident it shows MAJOR shoddy recordkeeping and care towards the animals. Personally I suspect that since you'd expressed displeasure at the thought of additional shots in general they decided to "just give it to be safe in case he doesn't come back" which makes me wonder what they'd have done if you'd not noticed and called....Either way: NEW VET.

Request a titer before allowing him to be given a 4th distemper/parvo. Titers aren't perfect, but after 3 shots I'd be very surprised if his antibody levels aren't well over the minimum required. Voidecho that goes for you too. 6 weeks is a COMMON age to give the first set of shots at. If your vet gives you a huge hassle over wanting a titer instead of automatically revaccinating: find a new vet.

I also have my vet rotate where the vaccines are administered. They actually put it in each of my dog's charts where this shot was placed, and its in big letters on the front of the chart to check and use the next shoulder/hip (going clockwise) for the next shot. Yes my vet thinks I'm crazy, but they also pointed out that rotating doesn't do any harm so why not.

Voidecho, when you say they gave him a "5 way vaccine" please tell me it wasn't a DHLPP??

Exactly what happened was the very confused tech who kept calling Mac a "she", thought he was getting the 15-18 week ahshots. When I went to check out the information wasnt even entered right for the receptionist to bill me. The tech had to leave and come back. Then she just vaguely mentioned she thought he was here for 15-18wk shots when reviewing what shots he would have to return for. Which is when I mentioned I didn't want him having more of the parvo/distemper. When I called back the receptionist checked his records twice and kept repeating that he only got the bordetella and dA2pp and there should've only been one shot, then put me on hold. I'm fairly sure the tech had no intention of telling anyone of her mistake had I not called.

---------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

I realize the risks involved with over vaccinating and I do agree OH WOW but not in agreement. The thought that almost all dogs have rabies to me is ridiculous. The author states " I realize that what I am presenting is based on “anecdotal evidence”, but I find the argument both logical and compelling…" I in no way find their argument either logical or compelling. They take behaviors that might fit the behavior of a rabies case and use that to come to the conclusion that the dog snapping at the water hose or sprinkler is afraid of the water and since rabid animals fear water they must be rabid. I did find it amusing that they did state that there may be numerous reasons that the dog presents a certain behavior but since it could be rabies make sure you look for what other behaviors they have that could help determine if they have rabies vacinosis.

Sorry I'll stop now I just hate when people spout off with no facts, scientific data, to back up their position. Too many people take what they read on the Internet as fact without doing their own research.

It's only one of the many sites I read on the subject and linked the last. I will say that anything you read online that's not by someone licensed to their particular field should be taken with a grain of salt. Even what's said on this forum is all mostly personal opinion.

 

[mkj878]

Double post

 

[mkj878]

Oh dear my mobile browser doesn't like this forum sorry haha