"Spaying or Breeding?"

[Avilnetro]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

What I hate though is when people try to shove their opinions down your throat to try to change your mind on what your beliefs are...It's the same as ear cropping, plastic surgery or even religion....to each their own!

I hope you're not referring to me on that one. I tolerate and respect everyone's opinion even if it doesn't align with my own. However, I stand by my own opinion and will not allow others to shoot it down.

Also, as the other person above me beat me to it, a number of vets (not all) are the very people who force their pro-neutering mindset down peoples' throats, especially new owners who don't have much experience to make sense of the situation and blindly follows what others say just because it's the popular choice.

Neutering does have its place, but I think that in the past 20 or so years, neutering has become like a "fashion trend" just to accommodate lazy people / bad owners (BUT I am not saying every single person who neuters is lazy or incompetent, problems DO arise).

It's the same as ear cropping, plastic surgery or even religion....to each their own!

Again, my opinion here. I personally think it's not right and just unnecessary to force unneeded changes to a dog's body just because "it looks cool." Heck, I disliked it when the breeder cut my CC's tail way too short after birth, and if it were my decision, I would let it be. If you love something, let it be, right?

And there is supporting evidence that cropping a dog's ears can make them more aggressive (again, depends on the dog), as dog's have hypersensitive hearing, and the ear flaps provide protection against both sounds and debris from getting inside the ear. Although I do admit, some dogs, particularly Mastiffs, look good with cropped ears, but I think it could be detrimental to their health.

Back to the topic of the thread, a lot of people also turn the blind eye on the cons of neutering / spaying dogs such as slightly reduced metabolism (which varies from dog to dog, so replace "slightly" with "dramatically" in some cases), as well as the possibility of psychological side effects. So basically, you're taking a risk in neutering your dog, and you're taking a risk in not neutering your dog. Actually, we all are taking risks by owning dogs at all.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

I think neutering has it's place. Not everyone is as savvy as "we" are. Some people actually put the onus on the dog, and I thnk as a general preventative, it's not a bad thing.

For me, I intend to have females. I will NOT breed, but after having experienced my mothers' pug getting pyo, I think I would rather prevent. Once my bitch is about 2 I would seriously consider spaying at that point.

With females it isn't as easy as to not spay or not as they cycle like we do, a female has heat cycles that have hormones running high for three weeks or so and the strain on the uterus is much greater, they don't go through metapause so to speak and when they don't shed the entire lining from a heat cycle you can run into issues. We had this happen with Hemi and we almost lost her. For me, females that aren't being bred would be fixed after they are mature, 2 or 3 years as I can't ever go through that again, losing her would have broken my heart.

I am with you, although I do fully believe that S/N does have its time and place. Most of the average dog owners can not responsibly handle an intact dog, either it being a female or a male. If ever I decide to get one of my dogs altered in the future it will not be a S/N it will be a vasectomy or ovary sparing spray. Panzer will not be altered.

I also believe it has its place and I do have my pets on spay/neuter contracts once mature as it is easier. Lots of people don't want to deal with a heat cycle (yes I know it isn't that hard and this makes them lazy but in reality that is most of society these days) to me it is easier than receiving a call that she got caught out on their walk and now they think there is going to be puppies. There are not many vets that will do a mis-mating shot and they are dangerous so I would prefer to not have to have my puppies go through that. Males I can relax a bit more but if for any reason I feel that the person might look like the type to see dollar signs about breeding I push the spay/neuter or they don't get the dog.

I agree, it has its place. I do not plan on neutering mine as of now.


But, I can tell you that I neutered both my male cats, they both are athletic and trim, years later. I would never have an unaltered cat.

Ugh I hate that nasty spraying!!!! Male cats... nasty!!!! And you can't get that out of stuff. We have also had no issues with our two neutered male cat, lean, trim and able to go just like before. Problem is most people still feed cats too much food when they not longer have the requirement for it.

The thing I dislike the most about neutering is the fact that it's more like a trend nowadays than the medical procedure it was used for before. Now people automatically neuter their pets because "it's what everyone does, it's the best for you and your pet." When the problem is backyard breeders and irresponsible pet owners, not the animals who were just born in this world. It's far too popular of a practice in my opinion.

It is a tread, vets push it, shelters push it. Instead of preaching against being lazy and doing what is right for your dogs, they say here... well take care of it and then you don't have to worry anymore. I don't mind if people have a valid reason for not neutering but for the most part it does make their life easier as they don't have to worry about it, and it makes my life easier as I am not chasing them to make sure they are watching their dogs all the time. But again, when the dog is mature. If they are a firm believe in having the dog remain natural that is fine, but my name stays on the paperwork just in case the urge to strike them.

I'm a responsible dog owner alas am not surrounded by other responsible dog owners, so really its just easier to have my dogs fixed.... That and my dogs often come from a shelter so I don't usually have a choice..... Having seen pyrometra I wouldn't want to risk it and I don't want to deal with heats... To each his own.

I agree, would not wish this on anyone!

 

[Avilnetro]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

I believe that it is irresponsible when people neuter / spay just for the sole purpose of correcting behaviour-related problems, which can be corrected with a little bit of love and training. We are all they have and want in this world, I think we owe them that much to take some time out of our day to train and correct them when they do wrong.

On a side note, animals have lived for hundreds of years unneutered, before human intervention came, and they survived just fine. It was until recent years that it became a trend and that these new "pet problems" have arisen in modern society. Also, if your dog were to ever contract pyometra and you catch it early on, an emergency neuter / spay would be in order, which is an appropriate way of using this medical procedure, instead of "correcting the problem before it happens."

My opinion.

EDIT:

What I'm saying is, I'd rather fix a problem when it happens, rather than correct a currently non-existant problem, especially when there's a chance that it won't happen at all. And of course, neutering is at the dog's expense, not our own (not talking money-wise).

 

[thelady_v2010]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

I don't believe the health concerns exist for cats the same way they do for dogs. That is why my cats will be altered.

 

[Avilnetro]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

I don't believe the health concerns exist for cats the same way they do for dogs. That is why my cats will be altered.

Entirely correct, cats are completely different species, but speaking from experience, a cat can also be trained alternatively to not urinate or "mark" inside the house. Like different breeds and mentalities of dogs, cats have them as well. I find it important that we do not generalize a species based on how a percentage of that species acts.

For example, we're all humans and we don't act the same. There's no such thing as generalizing humans due to a vast amount of differences that make us different from one another, so why do we allow ourselves to generalize our pets and automatically always assume we know what's best? Because in reality, we can never know 100% what's best for our animals, let alone what's best for ourselves sometimes. We, as well as animals, are not perfect.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

So it's possible to train a cat to wipe it's feet on the litter catcher after having used the litter box instead of tracking litter through the house? That's what I assume when you say it's possible to train cats to not mark. I'd like to know how you would go about doing this? Nothing smells worse than an intact male cat marking items in the house. Well...maybe parvo puke might smell worse...

 

[Avilnetro]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

So it's possible to train a cat to wipe it's feet on the litter catcher after having used the litter box instead of tracking litter through the house? That's what I assume when you say it's possible to train cats to not mark.

Well, I think catching litter outside of the box is an unavoidable thing, whether the cat's testicles are there or not. I've had to clean litter from the carpet millions of times when he was intact, and I still have to clean litter from the carpet daily ten years after he has been neutered. And what I mean when I say it's possible to train cats not to mark, is that, like dogs, it's possible to train them not to urinate territorially inside the house or in any other place that is not desired.

Never assume, it makes an ass out of you and me.

EDIT:

And yes, cat urine is one of the most unpleasant smells to deal with, I compare it to the smell of toxic waste.

 

[thelady_v2010]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

I was given many health reasons to not neuter my dog. Not neutering him has given way to a couple annoying behaviors. They are annoying and I can live with them. No one has given me any health reasons to not fix my cat. In fact, the leading vet proponent of not altering dogs until full grown specifically says that her view does not apply to cats. What is one health benefit of not neutering a cat? Yes, we do things out of convenience, yes, it is convenient to alter cats, but the alternative is not a good one. I neutered a cat that pretty much lives on my back patio. I can't take him in, but I took him to get neutered. Am I a bad person in your eyes, maybe? My other male cat was neutered when I got him from rescue and when I got my 2nd cat it seemed normal to neuter him as well, unneutered cats fight for territory, they are not pack animals like dogs are. My cats go outside supervised. I can only imagine the task of supervising an intact male cat outside. Uggg.

 

[DennasMom]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

For us, we've always had rescues, so being un-neutered was not an option. The first dog was neutered at ~12 weeks - before he was allowed to leave the shelter. He turned out to be (our best guess) a GSD/Rottie/Pryn mix... 190 lbs as an adult. He grew fine, did have some arthritis issues when he got to be 7.5-ish, and died from "cancer of the everything" at 8.5 years.

Second dog we waited until he was 6 months old and then had him fixed, again, per our contract. He was a 100 lb Dane/Lab mix as an adult. He was puppy-happy until an inoperable cancer tumor in his spine took him from us when he was ~9 years old.

Denna's our first non-contract dog... BYB, so we were able to do as we needed on the spay front. We waited as long as we could, but had her fixed at 10 months. She's a very social dog, and the place where she goes for boarding requires any dog over 6 months of age to be fixed. So we opted for her mental health... to keep her socialized and able to go out to the dog parks and day care, we had to get her fixed. Our second option for boarding is just a bunch of chain-link enclosures on concrete... we didn't want to leave her there overnight, let alone for a whole week, no matter how many walks she'd get during the day.

I respect everyone's opinion here, and for those in a position to keep your dogs "whole", I think that's awesome!

But now, having our first female dog, I understand the heat issues a bit more, and also would not want to subject my family members to the added stress of cycles - especially with male dogs in the house subjected to the frustrations of knowing a girl is there and ready... but unable to make contact.

Cats... I've been around two cats in heat once. And that was ALL I needed to see. My cats are fixed. From what I've read, the health risks are not the same for cats (or small dogs) as for the giant breeds. I'll try to keep reading and learning, though... I'm still evolving, too.

 

[rangermom]

Re: "Spaying or Breeding?"

Well, I didn't read all of the responses, but I always have my own opinion!

I do neuter and spay my pets.

Currently, I have a rescue cat. He came to us at 4 months old already neutered; so we really had no choice, but I would have done it anyway. Our cats are indoor/outdoor pets so there really is no way to have controlled breeding.

We had a lab that wasn't ever neutered. He ran CONSTANTLY!! Get a bigger fence? That would be nice, but my subdivision prohibits fencing. In our old house we did have a fence and he was like Hoidini! He could get out of anything.

My rottie is 7 years old. I had him neutered at 1 year. He was from a BYB, so there was no contract to neuter or not neuter, but after my experience with my lab, I wanted to do everything in my favor to prevent another dog from running off. I've never regretted this decision.

My EM pup is 7 months old. She was purchased on a spay contract and I am totally fine with that. She will be spayed in the next 2 months. I am fine with this for a variety of reasons. For one, with not having any fencing, there is nothing to keep random males OUT of my yard when they smell a bitch in heat. No thanks. Secondly, and most importantly to me, I frankly don't want to deal with having a dog with a menstrual cycle. I work full time, have 3 small kids, 2 dogs.......a menstruating dog isn't going to work out for me.

I am very comfortable with my decisions. They are my choices not anyone elses. It's just like raising kids. Everyone has to make decisions that work out best for their own families. This works out best for us but might not for others.