Resource Guarding

[Paumanok]

Portia is 10 months old now. You'll recall from my post last month that we had an issue over a high value item. There hasn't been any more trouble until yesterday; she's a model citizen in every other way.

Lately, Portia has gotten into the habit of moping in front of her food bowl at meal time. Yesterday, my fianc* gently nudged her to go to her place while he filled her bowl and she growled and barked. Today, he accidentally put his food between her and the bowl reaching for something and she barked threateningly again.

I came in and tried to do some games to desensitize her -- I gave her extra food and stood near her. I give her high value treats while I was near her bowl, put those treats in her bowl and let her eat them, etc. The result was that she lunged at me multiple times, barked and growled. When I turned away to ignore her, she pursued me into the other room, and put her open mouth on me to the point I could feel her teeth. That happened twice. I feel like if I had turned to face her to tell her no, she would have bitten me for real.

We have always played NILIF with her food, had lots of praise and treats at mealtime, and never taken away her food while she was eating. In short, there's nothing I feel like as owners we did to generate this behavior, and it really looks to me like it came out of the blue.

I'm having a hard time feeling like we are going to be able to manage her at this point, especially as she gets older and stronger. My understanding is that threatening an owner in that way requires a lot of work from experienced handlers to undo. What are your thoughts?

 

[Paumanok]

Addendum: She hasn't had her first heat yet. Could coming into it explain this behavior?

 

[teodora]

My teenager cc is challenging us as well - I may be wrong but I don't play the "what if he bites" game, I simply go and grab his collar and put him in time out while repeating NO and "SHAME". Bizarrely enough, he responds well to "shame" and "naughty boy".

 

[Paumanok]

I feel like I'm walking a fine line here between letting her think she can get away with that by not "punishing" and actually being bitten. It's just happened so suddenly I'm really concerned about the cause. It's not the resource guarding that bothers me so much as pursuing me after I have disengaged.

 

[karennj]

Don't add to a full bowl. Start empty and only throw in 2 pieces. When she eats them and looks at you say good girl and throw in 2 more pieces (from a bit of a distance). Do this for a bit then when she eats her 2 pieces walk away briefly while she is eating (like across the room and wait for her to make good eye contact). Tell her good girl then walk over and throw in a couple more pieces. Keep doing this over and over for awhile so she understands you there equals food. You can slowly get your hand a little closer to the bowl as you drop in food. You not there equals no food. Do this with other people in the house starting at the beginning with each new person. Once everyone is doing this then slowly give more and more food until her meal is given in 1/4's. The other options is hand feeding but personally I think the other way shows her I get nothing without a person near my bowl.

 

[karennj]

one more thing, she is still only 10months old. Are you sure her mouthing you was not wanting to just interact with you? Does she mouth you any other times? If a dog wants to bite there will be no mistaking it. Usually level 1 is a air bite. Level 2 is contact with the mouth/no pressure, but it is normally quick not just holding you for example with their mouth. Was it quick or more of a hold?

Resource guarding is VERY normal and sometimes nothing you can do will prevent it. My 8yr old sweetheart therapy dog will rip off my Danes face if he tries to get too close to food on the counter. At this point with her age we just use management to deal with it. I would not look at resource guarding as threatening you. It is not the same as aggression.

 

[xcrazydx]

A dog should never growl at its owner, at least not more than once. She does not respect or see you as the pack leader, apparently.

 

[Joe Flynn]

I was going to say something along the lines of xcrazydx. I think you may need to show your pup the back of your hands. that is to say be large and in charge. I don't think that she is being "aggressive" with you, however the behavior is not acceptable. you should show her this in a assertive dominant manner. I have had some attitude issues with my 1 year old presa, including some food aggression. being passive and and firm does nothing with her. I have to be assertive and dominant. she gets it right away when i use my big boy voice and stand like i'm top dog.

 

[karennj]

Growling is a normal, socially accepted form of communication to dogs and I always am thankful for a dog who growls vs. just goes for a bite. A growl means I am uncomfortable with this situation. A dog that growls is communicating with you. Dogs don't see pack leaders, they see humans who provide or remove their needs. I just wanted to share something from Dr. Ian Dunbar who is a very well known vet, trainer and behaviorist. Resource guarding is usually an issue with fear, anxiety or confidence. If you are not careful and deal with resource guarding as if it were a ploy for the dog to gain higher ranking you can make the issue much worse.

"A number of dog training texts cite pilo-erection, prolonged barking and growling, snarling and snapping, food protection, and otherwise threatening people as examples of aggression and alpha-status. Usually though, these behaviors are indicative of insecurity and may be easily prevented or resolved by comprehensive socialization, desensitization and oodles of classical conditioning. Dogs feel the need to threaten people because they themselves feel threatened by people. In terms of dog-dog interactions, threatening, growling and fighting are characteristic of middle-ranking male dogs that lack confidence of their social standing. Top dogs seldom growl or threaten, they don't need to. Underdogs seldom growl or threaten, they would be silly to. In our study of dog social hierarchies, the two top male dogs were pretty cool customers — they seldom threatened and growled and hardly ever fought. Instead they were perfectly happy to share a bone with other dogs, whereas the middle-ranking males protected the bone with extreme machismo — a noisy and embarrassing advertisement of their lack of confidence."

 

[xcrazydx]

Growling is a normal, socially accepted form of communication to dogs and I always am thankful for a dog who growls vs. just goes for a bite. A growl means I am uncomfortable with this situation. A dog that growls is communicating with you. Dogs don't see pack leaders, they see humans who provide or remove their needs. I just wanted to share something from Dr. Ian Dunbar who is a very well known vet, trainer and behaviorist. Resource guarding is usually an issue with fear, anxiety or confidence. If you are not careful and deal with resource guarding as if it were a ploy for the dog to gain higher ranking you can make the issue much worse.

"A number of dog training texts cite pilo-erection, prolonged barking and growling, snarling and snapping, food protection, and otherwise threatening people as examples of aggression and alpha-status. Usually though, these behaviors are indicative of insecurity and may be easily prevented or resolved by comprehensive socialization, desensitization and oodles of classical conditioning. Dogs feel the need to threaten people because they themselves feel threatened by people. In terms of dog-dog interactions, threatening, growling and fighting are characteristic of middle-ranking male dogs that lack confidence of their social standing. Top dogs seldom growl or threaten, they don't need to. Underdogs seldom growl or threaten, they would be silly to. In our study of dog social hierarchies, the two top male dogs were pretty cool customers — they seldom threatened and growled and hardly ever fought. Instead they were perfectly happy to share a bone with other dogs, whereas the middle-ranking males protected the bone with extreme machismo — a noisy and embarrassing advertisement of their lack of confidence."

A dog can growl at another dog, but not its owner. That is not acceptable, ever.

 

[Joe Flynn]

So I think the issue here is, is what the dog is doing being properly interpreted. My presa has many barks and growl like noises that have nothing to do with aggression. One should not own this breed in they cannot read k9 body language correctly or if they lack the ability to be "pack leader"/ Alpha. And yes they most definitely can see their human counterpart as pack leader or alpha. anyone who says otherwise does not understand dominant dogs.

 

[karennj]

A dog can growl at another dog, but not its owner. That is not acceptable, ever.

How then is a dog supposed to communicate fear, anxiety, insecurity, etc before kicking into fight or flight mode? That is like saying a child cannot cry to their parent when they are scared of something. A growl is just a noise, it's the emotion behind it that is important and if you deal with that emotion inappropriately you can cause more harm than good. In the case of resource guarding if you approach it as a fight for "alpha" and try to dominate the dog you may stop the symptoms "barking, growling, lunging" but all you have done is suppressed the symptoms and not the emotion. You have to deal with the emotion behind the behavior. Yelling or "showing your dog the back of your hand" is most certainly not going to deal with the emotion. I do believe dogs view us as leaders but there is a big difference between being a leader and being a bully. Dogs (and wolves) don't live in a alpha/submissive world. They live in family units just like human families. Your kids know who the leader of the house is. You don't have to dominate them to get that point across. Yes, being a calm and confident owner is a great thing. Using aversive techniques on a soft dog can cause the dog to completely shut down, develop even more severe anxiety, fear, etc. Using aversive techniques on a hard dog can put you in a constant stand-off with your dog which just escalates the behavior OR the dog submits for the moment, but may erupt aggressively again the next time a human does something violent and inappropriate to them. Basically you can be creating a ticking time bomb. Some dogs can deal with being dominated but I would not take the chance of fallout that can come with using those methods. To each their own. Just understand the theory and science behind the method your using.

 

[karennj]

There are lots of different training methods. At the end of the day you need to find the way that makes the most sense for the relationship between you and your dog. A good trainer can easily help you with this.

 

[Paumanok]

Karen, I tired what you said this morning and that went fine for a couple of rounds, then she charged me again for the food I had in my hand when I was nowhere near her bowl. At that point I tried what another member said, sharply reprimanded her, and hauled her off to her kennel. While she is definitely not playing as some members have suggested, because I did challenge her back this time, I got the sense she really was trying to push it and see if she could be in charge. For now, I'm doing no affection and no treats. We will see how it goes at the next mealtime.

Again, this is really surprising to us because we are definitely not squishy owners. She gets plenty of discipline and exercise, and while we are not harsh we are firm.

Looking forward to other comments.

 

[karennj]

If she charged I would just stand there and do nothing. No eye contact, no voice, no touch. Once she got tired of her show and understood it was getting her nowhere I would then start over. It sounds like she is more of a hard dog. Just be careful to try and be balanced with your approach. You really don't want to constantly be having her challenging you for what she wants. Also, grabbing her could escalate her state so be careful. Bad behavior gets her nothing. Good behavior gets her everything.

 

[Joe Flynn]

Paumanok, do you always eat food before her, with her watching? this is important to do.

 

[Joe Flynn]

While eye contact can be viewed as a challenge, I feel it is submissive to avoid all eye contact. I have played this game with mine when she is just feeling dominant but not aggressive. I keep eye contact until she at least twitches then i break constant contact making recontact multiple times over the next minute or so. If she crosses the the docile dominant line into anywhere near the active dominant to aggressive line I take complete charge of the situation and do not back off until she is completely passive, sometimes I don't wait for her to stop whacking her tail all over the place, but she is belly up before i back off.

 

[DennasMom]

I agree with your sending her directly to her create for a time-out when she charged you. This gives YOU time to calm down, also.

From reading your text, my interpretation is that she is pushing your buttons and testing limits... and it was working (you were adding more food)... so she's taking it another step - by sending her to her crate, you have cut the "it's working" idea OFF, which is a GOOD thing.

I'd go back to strict NILF - it might only take a few days worth to remind her where all goodness comes from (you). Keep being firm, confident and kind... don't give in to her being a bully... show her that bully maneuvers get her NOTHING, while asking nicely (i.e. she sits & waits, makes eye contact) will get her all sorts of good stuff.

Don't be afraid to tell her "NO!" and provide some serious negative consequences if she goes beyond the growl. I, too, want to keep the growl/warning (so I don't punish a growl)... it's the action after the growl that you need to be in control of.

When Denna growls, I ask "WHAT?!?" (my tone varies depending on what kind of growl she's giving me... fear/alert/dominance/etc.)... then I just stand there in an imposing stance (in front/over/next to her) and let her make the next move.... if she's serious about an alert, she stays keyed on IT (and we go "check it out" or I tell her to "leave it" and we move away), if it was something to get my attention... well... she has it now! And, she knows "sit & wait" is more likely to get her what she wants, versus any other movement.

Keep at it! be sure you reward her when she's being good, too... and get out for some good, long walks to keep your bond healthy.

 

[xcrazydx]

How then is a dog supposed to communicate fear, anxiety, insecurity, etc before kicking into fight or flight mode? That is like saying a child cannot cry to their parent when they are scared of something. A growl is just a noise, it's the emotion behind it that is important and if you deal with that emotion inappropriately you can cause more harm than good. In the case of resource guarding if you approach it as a fight for "alpha" and try to dominate the dog you may stop the symptoms "barking, growling, lunging" but all you have done is suppressed the symptoms and not the emotion. You have to deal with the emotion behind the behavior. Yelling or "showing your dog the back of your hand" is most certainly not going to deal with the emotion. I do believe dogs view us as leaders but there is a big difference between being a leader and being a bully. Dogs (and wolves) don't live in a alpha/submissive world. They live in family units just like human families. Your kids know who the leader of the house is. You don't have to dominate them to get that point across. Yes, being a calm and confident owner is a great thing. Using aversive techniques on a soft dog can cause the dog to completely shut down, develop even more severe anxiety, fear, etc. Using aversive techniques on a hard dog can put you in a constant stand-off with your dog which just escalates the behavior OR the dog submits for the moment, but may erupt aggressively again the next time a human does something violent and inappropriate to them. Basically you can be creating a ticking time bomb. Some dogs can deal with being dominated but I would not take the chance of fallout that can come with using those methods. To each their own. Just understand the theory and science behind the method your using.

The dog is growling and charging at her. I would shut that down immediately. I'm a member of the old school of dog training and parenting. I'm not into the weak, soft everything is rainbows and unicorns method. You can see how well that version works with our current generation. Yeah, it doesn't work. These type of large, dominant dogs need a strong alpha to lead them.

 

[Joe Flynn]

yesiry. You took the words right out of my mouth. Rainbows and unicorns do not work with a Presa Canario(or at least mine). My other dog (a mix of some sort of mastiff,boxer, and pit) does not need a tenth the amount of dominance as my presa.
If Paumanok's dog is acting the way it is being described the behavior needs handled in a firm, assertive dominant manner. If Paumanok is misreading the situation and it's more of a communication attempt then this should work:

"When Denna growls, I ask "WHAT?!?" (my tone varies depending on what kind of growl she's giving me... fear/alert/dominance/etc.)... then I just stand there in an imposing stance (in front/over/next to her) and let her make the next move.... if she's serious about an alert, she stays keyed on IT (and we go "check it out" or I tell her to "leave it" and we move away), if it was something to get my attention... well... she has it now! And, she knows "sit & wait" is more likely to get her what she wants, versus any other movement."

But, in my opinion, the lunging aspect makes this more serious than miscommunication.