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  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Our experience with the doggie dermatologist.

seeknoxrun

seeknoxrun

Well-Known Member
Some of you have seen me post about Roux's (5 month old female EM) relentless itching, hair loss, and dry, flaky skin. Our regular vet has done two separate skin scrapings and ruled out mites, topical parasites, mange, and scabies. We both agreed that it was probably an allergic reaction. I've been super careful about the food/treats I give her - all natural, grain free, novel protein sources, etc - but that hasn't seemed to help. Also, topical solutions usually make her more itchy and offer little to no relief. We tried Benadryl for 10 weeks (started out at 1mg per pound, made our way up to 2mg per pound) to no effect. She also doesn't seem to have any positive reaction to salmon oil or milled flax.

So, we had our first visit with the doggie dermatologist today. She also did a skin scraping (came back negative) and threw around the ideas of a short stint of steroids to break the itch cycle. I requested that no steroids be given at this point, and I would rather get on with allergy testing and trial/error to determine the cause first. She explained that dogs that show symptoms to allergies this young are usually reacting to a food allergy, and she insisted that the best course of action would be a prescription hypoallergenic kibble trial (Iams Kangaroo something or another at $80 for 25lbs) for at least 8 weeks. I told her, in detail, about Roux's current diet and how I'm very careful about what I feed her (no grains, no common protein sources, as natural as possible) but she said it doesn't matter because that kibble is likely processed in the same plant / on the same equipment as other formulas, and it may be contaminated with an allergen not listed in the ingredients. Is that very likely? I feed Earthborn Holistics and rotate between the lamb meal formula and the herring meal formula. Also, I mentioned attempting raw again, and she was very against that idea. She couldn't really give me a good reason as to why not, and just said that dogs that are on a raw diet are at risk for passing salmonella to other household members. She also said that a dog will be just as allergic to a protein source in its raw form as it is in a kibble form. True or not true? Is there any research or any articles that discuss this issue?

Ugh, my head is spinning! But at this point, I can't watch Roux tear herself up anymore. Any suggestions, advice, insight, firsthand experiences??
 
Kelly

Kelly

Well-Known Member
kibble is likely processed in the same plant / on the same equipment as other formulas, and it may be contaminated with an allergen not listed in the ingredients. Is that very likely?

Yes.

I used to set up runs for different rice cake flavors and the only one we'd clean up the machines and everything after is after the peanut butter flavored run. Because of peanut allergies.
 
ruthcatrin

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Yes, no, maybe?

Salmonella is a concern with raw, but as for passing it on to others, I don't see how the risk is any worse than with kibble unless someone has data otherwise.

Quite a few people who feed raw have stated that their dog appeared to be allergic to the protein in kibble form but not in raw form, its not one I've personal experience with though....

Earthborn is considered a very good brand, but I'm not sure who does their manufacture so I suppose its possible (you might call them and ask, worst that'll happen is they refuse to discuss it). How does she know Iams doesn't though?

I'll have to research the Iams unless Smart Family beats me too it, but you might have to go with something really weird to start with and clear her system out.

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

At first glance at the Iams Kangaroo...."animal fat" in the ingredients? Really? I understand adding fat, but please specify what animal its from, seriously. Also the Iams site doesn't specify calcium and what not.....
 
ruthcatrin

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
At first glance at the Iams Kangaroo...."animal fat" in the ingredients? Really? I understand adding fat, but please specify what animal its from, seriously. Also the Iams site doesn't specify calcium and what not.....

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------

Ok, need SmartFamily...

there are at least two other 'kangaroo limited ingredient' foods on the market, neither is cheap, one appears to be pretty close in price to the Iams, BUT I like the ingredient lists better, but I'm not finding obvious calcium amounts anywhere either.

http://www.petsolutions.com/C/Grain...nia-Natural-Grain-Free-Kangaroo-Dog-Food.aspx

http://www.amazon.com/Addiction-Hol...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1340232723&sr=1-3
 
Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
The problem with any kangaroo food is that it's expensive since kangaroo isn't used in dog food very often. Is the Iams kangaroo produced in it's very own plant with no other foods because if not it too is at risk for cross contamination. And it's not true that a dog allergic to a kibble protein is definitely going to be allergic to the protein raw.

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

The issue with the Addiction Kangaroo is two things, at least in my opinion: 1) it has menadione in it and 2) I have emailed the company at least half a dozen times over the last three months about the calcium and they just finally responded this week. I lied there's three issues because the calcium is also way too high at 2.4%
 
Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
The issue with the Addiction Kangaroo is two things, at least in my opinion: 1) it has menadione in it and 2) I have emailed the company at least half a dozen times over the last three months about the calcium and they just finally responded this week. I lied there's three issues because the calcium is also way too high at 2.4%

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------

And the california natural's kangaroo has too low of a calcium level.
 
Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
It's really low. I mean lowest you want is 1 with an ideal level of 1.4-1.6 and it's .76. I don't really like messing around with supplementation of calcium because it can be tricky, although if that's their only option I can try and help them with that.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

I'm curious as to why she thinks kangaroo is the way to go and why not something like venison?
 
angelbears

angelbears

Well-Known Member
We went with a homeopathic vet and are totally raw with our big boy, Cane. Cane has suffered from pyoderma and other skin issues. We spent a lot of time and money taking him back and forth to the vet. It would get better but never completely heal and would come back even stronger in a couple of weeks.

We have seen drastic improvement over the last 3 months, since using the homeopathic. I actually think he will make a full recovery. I had given serious thought of putting him down. I just couldn't, so I made the phone call. Now I'm contemplating putting him down because he is the mean, stubborn cuss he was a couple years ago. LOL

It is still a very foreign concept for me. I feel like I should be smoking a joint, wearing a ty dye tee shirt and chanting when I give him his remedy but it really has worked, at least for us. If you want more info I would be more than happy to pm my phone number to you and try to answer any questions you may have.

As far as a dermatologist and allergy shots go, a lot of what I read said it was hit or miss. If it did work, often the dog would come down with different allergies.

Wishing you all the best in your search for a cure!
 
bullyBug

bullyBug

Well-Known Member
Wow, crazy. I was at the dermatologist yesterday for the very same thing. Well, probably not THE very same thing. Mason started having hot spots about a month ago and in the last 3 weeks it's turned into patches of hair loss, scaly and hyperpigmented skin. I did two skin scrapes at my job and one in house DTM. The Dr also recommended I send out a hair sample for a DTM at the lab. Everything's been negative, but that second DTM is still pending. After a week of antibiotics and twice weekly Malaseb baths it was still spreading, so yesterday I went to the dermatologist.

She too repeated a skin scrape. It was negative for demodex, but she did find bacteria. She took a swab for me to have cultured and make sure he's on the right antibiotics. My puppy is 9 months old and the doctor is also leaning towards food allergy because he's under a year old. (Though it could also be enviornmental or both.) She also recommended the Iams Kangaroo diet. (California has a similar, better quality diet.) The doctor was anti-raw, but didn't try to change my mind about it.

Do you have a picture of your puppy's skin? Discharge instructions for me were to keep him on the antibiotic for at least 4 weeks, continue bathing twice a week with Malaseb or Douxo Chlorahexadine shampoo, and a single protein diet for at least 2 months. She told me not to use fish oil unless fish was the one protein I was going to be feeding. I'll be using coconut oil instead.

---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

Also, the doctor said I would need to wait until Mason was a year old - and preferably 18 months for large breeds - to get any accuracy out of an allergy test. (And preferably skin not serum.)
 
seeknoxrun

seeknoxrun

Well-Known Member
Smart_Family said:
Is the Iams kangaroo produced in it's very own plant with no other foods because if not it too is at risk for cross contamination.
Click to expand...

She said yes, which is also why it is so pricey. Also, I raised concern about the calcium/phosphorous levels, and she said it would be fine but couldn't provide me with specific details and numbers. :/

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------
angelbears said:
It is still a very foreign concept for me. I feel like I should be smoking a joint, wearing a ty dye tee shirt and chanting when I give him his remedy but it really has worked, at least for us. If you want more info I would be more than happy to pm my phone number to you and try to answer any questions you may have.
Click to expand...

That would be fantastic! Just let me know what time zone you're in so I don't accidentally call you at midnight or something!
 
seeknoxrun

seeknoxrun

Well-Known Member
Double post, sorry!

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
bullyBug said:
Wow, crazy. I was at the dermatologist yesterday for the very same thing. Well, probably not THE very same thing. Mason started having hot spots about a month ago and in the last 3 weeks it's turned into patches of hair loss, scaly and hyperpigmented skin. I did two skin scrapes at my job and one in house DTM. The Dr also recommended I send out a hair sample for a DTM at the lab. Everything's been negative, but that second DTM is still pending. After a week of antibiotics and twice weekly Malaseb baths it was still spreading, so yesterday I went to the dermatologist.

She too repeated a skin scrape. It was negative for demodex, but she did find bacteria. She took a swab for me to have cultured and make sure he's on the right antibiotics. My puppy is 9 months old and the doctor is also leaning towards food allergy because he's under a year old. (Though it could also be enviornmental or both.) She also recommended the Iams Kangaroo diet. (California has a similar, better quality diet.) The doctor was anti-raw, but didn't try to change my mind about it.

Do you have a picture of your puppy's skin? Discharge instructions for me were to keep him on the antibiotic for at least 4 weeks, continue bathing twice a week with Malaseb or Douxo Chlorahexadine shampoo, and a single protein diet for at least 2 months. She told me not to use fish oil unless fish was the one protein I was going to be feeding. I'll be using coconut oil instead.

---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

Also, the doctor said I would need to wait until Mason was a year old - and preferably 18 months for large breeds - to get any accuracy out of an allergy test. (And preferably skin not serum.)
Click to expand...

Um, do you have my dog over there?? Haha, that sounds almost exactly like what was discussed in our appointment today! The vet was definitely resistant to doing an allergy test for the same reasons, but it's hard for me to be patient about it. I just wish it didn't have to be such a long process!

We weren't sent home with any antibiotics. Her food trial will last at least 8 weeks, and she's not allowed anything but her food - no chews, no supplements, no treats. We were also instructed to bathe her in KetoHex twice a week and a conditioning cream rinse was optional. I'll try to get some good pictures of her and post them in a bit.
 
Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
I find that really hard to believe. I can understand it being expensive because of the kangaroo but I would be amazed if it was actually made in a separate factory. I would avoid the Iams anyways just on the basis that a)it's Iams and b) the animal fat
 
ruthcatrin

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Iams would answer that question if you asked...

If she doesn't want to go raw how about home cooked? That way you can be sure theres no contamination.
 
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