ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

[sharp1]

ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Aside from all the good stuff to report about our new pup, we've officially run into our first problem with him and I'm not quite sure how to handle it?

The problem is he's nipping my kids a lot, most of the time it's no big deal with the two older ones (12 & 7 years old), but I've also got a 16 month old baby girl who is now getting rather anxious and hiding her toes and fingers when the pup is around her, he's never broken her skin at all or even scratched her skin but his teeth are needle sharp at this stage and it is fairly painful sometimes when he nips.

Also today my 7 year old boy was trying to take him out to go pee and the pup didn't want to go, (it's cold out and the pup hates going out) so the pup was running away and hiding behind furniture and stuff, my son finally caught him by the hips from the back to keep him from scurrying away and the pup turned around and nipped him real good on the hand, he made a small puncture wound on my son's hand that started to bleed, and my son did shed a few tears cause it hurt him quite a bit.

Now I know that Midas is still very young (9 weeks), but I'm feeling somewhat concerned about what to do here? I've taught him not to nip me, by telling him "no biting" loudly when ever he nips hard enough to cause pain, and after two warnings pushing his lip into his tooth a bit on the third warning to teach him it hurts, so now he does not nip me, he will often mouth my hand very gently and look at me like is this ok?

So he hasn't nipped me at all for more then a week, and we've had him just over two weeks now.

It's the same thing with my wife too, he rarely nips her, but the kids are getting nipped, and painfully sometimes, I can't watch him 24 hours a day to say "no biting" whenever he nips one of them, plus I get the feeling that even if I did manage to do that he would quickly learn not to nip them when I'm watching.. he's pretty smart.

Hopefully it's just a phase that he grows out of and we have nothing to worry about, but if that's not the case I'm trying to figure out how to rid him of this tendency to nip the kids before it comes to a head, because if he draws blood from the baby's (16 month old) hand one day my wife ain't going to be a happy camper that's for sure, plus I really don't want the baby to be afraid of him or anxious when the pup is around because he's hurt her.

I get the feeling that Midas sees me and my wife as the "leaders" of "the pack" and the kids as his new "litter mates" so they are "fair game" for nipping, he had quite a few brothers in his litter and they were constantly playing rough so maybe that behavior is carrying over into our family situation?

I don't know, it's like I have two dogs rolled into one, sometimes he's so, so, calm and docile and would never even muster enough energy to nip anyone, but then sometimes he gets worked up playing with the yorkie (my wife's dog) or with a squeaky toy or something and it's a free for all, keep your fingers and toes away or they will get nipped.

Is this normal? will he grow out of it? Should I just try and keep my kids away from him for now? Have any of you run into this problem with CCs? How did you deal with it? He's such a great, great pup otherwise so I really want to correct this behavior before it becomes a real problem.

thanks in advance for any suggestions..

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Well. Grab any dog, especially by surprise, from the back end like that and any dog's going to turn around and snap like that. So no grabbing by the back end (I understand why your son did it, but bad idea). Btw, "chase" only makes that sort of behavior worse not better (it turns it into a game).

I would definetly suggest supervised contact with the kids only, and no rough and tumble type play with the kids, as that encourages him to treat them like litter mates. ESPECIALLY no unsupervised contact with the toddler. Pup he may be but he's still big enough and strong enough to do her actual damage un-intentionally. And lets be honest. A baby moves quickly and erratically and makes noises like an injured animal. This can trigger prey drive in even the best mannered of dogs.

With most pups a high pitched, loud, "OW!" when the pup nips will get the idea across. But when he nips don't just sit there either. Get up and move. Maybe only a couple feet, but move away. In Apollo's case we had to "OW!" and totally leave the room to get the point across.

Its perfectly normal puppy behavior. You just have to teach him that his mouth is not an appropriate way to interact with humans.

 

[NeSaxena]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

A short sharp loud "owwww!" or "ah!" as soon as he looks like he nips should be easier for your kids to manage, IMHO. Of course, once they do this, they need to walk away and ignore Midas completely. Pretty soon he'll get the message that it is unacceptable behavior (it took Boone, my BM, about 2 days to understand).
Either that or redirect - though I'm not sure how the kids will handle that. Usually, a firm "No", and replace your hand (or whatever else he's nipping) with a toy.

Midas probably thought your boy was playing with him when he held him by the hip. Till the time Midas understands that it's not okay to nip, I think it'll be wise for your kids to avoid any floor rolling games with the pup - his sense of play includes a lot of nipping right now. Any toy based or fetch or hide-n-seek should be good, in fact.

Hope this helps!

 

[NeSaxena]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Awwww.. Ruth and I started typing at the same time! But Boone distracted me

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Awwww.. Ruth and I started typing at the same time! But Boone distracted me

Puppies are good at that.

Grabbing a dog from behind is actually an aggressive move, their back end is vunerable (cause the teeth are on the other end lol) so when they get grabbed like that it triggers a "must fight back to get free" response. Not all dogs react as violently, but even the best don't appreciate it.

 

[NeSaxena]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Yep, what Ruth said. Since Midas is getting used to the family, anything threatening might turn him off completely. Approach from where he can see you and see that you mean. Lavish praise and treats for good behavior is an added bonus

These guys are naturally protective, it's kinda up to us to redirect it!

 

[Sadies Mom]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

I would put a leash on the pup inside. That way you can correct him easier and faster. If you have a leash on him the kids can take the leash and walk him around the house and you can teach them some basic obedience commands to work Midas (under your supervision) and that way establish leadership without Midas running away and the kids chasing after.

 

[mx5055]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think it's you 7 years old responsibility to take your 9 week pup out to pee....especially when it doesn't want to go out and turns into chasing with the results you got. I have been spending a lot of time socializing my pup with my three grandchildren, ages 1 1/2, 2 1/2, and 6 1/2....letting them participate in everything possible with Bella, but only under my direct supervision. That being said, there are a lot of things that Bella hasn't learned yet, and of course the kids don't know, so some things are totally my responsibility alone. My grandchildren are a big part of my life, and around daily, but I am looking forward to the years ahead, and I never want my grandchildren to be afraid, and I don't want my pup to be mistreated, however innocently it may happen. I am not meaning to criticize or be judgmental, I am just offering my point of view

 

[mx5055]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

P. S. The only time I would grab a dog by it's hind legs would be some kind of emergency, or if I was trying to break up a dog fight between 2 dogs (regarding that situation I also have to say there is much more involved than actually just grabbing the hind legs of a dog).

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think it's you 7 years old responsibility to take your 9 week pup out to pee....especially when it doesn't want to go out and turns into chasing with the results you got.

I gotta admit I was leaning that way too, but not having kids myself didn't feel it was my call either.....but even the more responsible 7yr olds I've known would have trouble managing that sort of responsiblity without it turning into a chase game. The more it becomes chase the more he's not going to want to do what you want.

Leaving a leash on the pup is a good idea. Though he'll need constant supervision so he doesn't catch it on something and choke himself. But it'll provide an easy handle to catch the pup with to get him outside.

 

[DennasMom]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

I think training kids around puppies is harder than training puppies around kids... but maybe that's because I don't have kids...
Kids move fast and talk with high pitched, exciting voices. It's hard to keep a puppy calm in that environment... but it's something he can learn.

I'd go with the "ow" or "yipe" method of anti-biting instead of the "no bite"... "no bite" is a command where the "yipe" will communicate in doggie language that "it hurts - don't do that", which will give the puppy a much faster clue as to what you mean. The kids need to learn to 'yipe' - and walk away for at least 10 minutes. Ignoring the puppy will be hard, but they need to help with the training, too. I would think a 7 year-old could easily be another leader in the pack (if you also think he's capable), the 12-year-old for sure can help. The 16 month old needs to be seen as a piece of you and the wife... something to follow, and not play with (unless play is initiated and controlled by you).

There are many people who might suggest you just keep the puppy away from the kids completely, but I don't think that's fair to anybody. The puppy needs to learn how to behave around all people in the family. Hopefully some other people with kids will chime in here with suggestions on how to communicate with both the puppy and the kids so they understand what the limits are...

The 7-year-old now has a first hand knowledge of consequences to grabbing at the puppy... something hopefully you won't need to repeat. When puppy runs away... get down on the floor and call the puppy to you (not with his name, yet... just with happy sounds and movements). Chase is a fun game, and not a game you want the puppy to initiate or control. Playing rough with the puppy will also teach the puppy to rough-house back... again, fun when they're small, but not so much when they get bigger, which is just around the corner.

You might also consider getting a trainer to come to the house and give the whole family ideas on constructive games to play with the puppy, and how to handle training, feeding times and potty-excursions. Having a third party with expert ideas is always a good thing in my book. Even experienced dog owners can miss signs or not be privy to new training methods and ideas.

And... I'm just an experienced dog owner, too... not a trainer - so take my ideas as just that. Hopefully you'll find what works for you.
Have fun with the puppy!! Denna is our first full EM, and an absolute joy!

 

[mx5055]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

I agree with all above advice, but I do want to clarify what I meant about giving the 7 year old the responsibility of taking the dog out for potty breaks, etc. It is partly my history with episodes such as you described that has led me to always try and think ahead in situations regarding my dogs and my children/grandchildren. It's great for the kids to help as much as possible in the house in safe situations. But even giving a leash to a 7 year old to take the pup/dog outside to do it's business....I have learned a lot of things the hard way. What if the dog jumps the fence (a female boxer I once had cleared a 5 1/2 foot fence and there was a lot of chasing involved)...what if another dog jumps in? What if fence is high enough, but someone forgot to latch it correctly and somehow the pup gets leash out of 7 year olds hand and runs out the gate and car comes by? I am not trying to be a downer....It is just through these kind of situations happening that I have learned that I need to take the lead and be present and guide the whole show. This is my job as the owner. I don't ever want anything negative happening to my child/grandchild, or my pup because I decided to risk something. One last thing.....when taking my full grown dogs for a walk in the past, I would never, ever let one of my children "walk" the dog (unless I had a double leash on it). Dogs are powerful creatures, and even though we know our pet, we cannot account for others pets, others off leash pets, etc. That was the point I was building up to and I hope I haven't offended anyone. ")

 

[Francesco]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

I think most of the things you were talking about are quite normal for a puppy at that age...Mine did the same, he was always biting. The "problem" is that they do not have adult teeth, so they're pretty sharp and do hurt...But as the time goes by, they will change their teeth and probably stop biting so much. I suggest telling your puppy a big and firm "NO" and giving him a toy to play with when he feels like biting your adorable kids, I did the same with mine and it worked !

 

[Ben Curtis]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Second what everyone else is saying for the most part. My Corso was the same way.

Your pup wants to play. What worked best in my family was a loud noise. My daughters enjoyed fake crying, and way over doing it, and then turning there backs on the dog, crossing there arms, and staying still, but completely ignoring the dog. It did not take long for Leo to realize that nipping ended the fun rather quickly.

 

[bella]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Ok, i am fairly new on here but will put my thoughts in. I have a 18 month old 7 yr old, then i have my sister and 2 neices each day n the home, there ages are 14, 9, and 7, they get off the bus here. My 4 month old pup is on a leash in home, 15 ft that is attatched to me. When bella, the pup, nips the older children know to give a squeal of OWWW! Then they are to walk away and ignore her, i will pull up the slack to ensure she doesnt follow. If she nips the baby i give a quick snap on the leash with a NO! She is not allowed to even softly nibble on my husband or myself bc what is soft to us is not soft to the kids.
As far as your chilld grabbing the pups hind legs, well thats where you have to teach your children about "safety"! There are certain spots on all dogs that are a NO NO to touch. And its your responsibility to teach your children this or else there will be a very bad outcome, not to be cruel but this is fact. Also my children help with training on all sorts of things under my supervision. The 18 month old will help me feed and add treats to ensure the kids can touch the food, i am standing right there though. My 7 yr old will help on walks but once again under my supervision. I call her to us allow child to leash her after she sits then we walk out together. So your children can help with the pup but it needs to be under your care. Most of the time the children will make the situation ALOT worse if you are not there to intervene.
And one other thing i know how tempting it can be to get the kids to take the dog out or other things when you are busy and believe it is teaching your child responsibility, well the problem with that is the behavior problems that will follow in your pup. You let your children help out but it needs to be under your watchful eye.

 

[sharp1]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Thanks for all the great advice guys, just for the record I just wanted to say that I have not taken offense to any of the advice offered, I did ask for opinions so I have to at least respect the advice / opinions given even if I may not agree with some of it.

In retrospect I realize that yes having the 7 year old try to catch the pup to take him out was a really bad idea, my fault, I was trying to get some other work done and I think I underestimated the pup's level of fear or resistance to that, and my son's inexperience, that being said me or my wife do take the dog out 99% or the time, but at the same time we also do want to involve the kids in the responsibilities (and also the pleasures) of having a dog, he is after all the "family dog" or at least one of them. What I should have done, and what I have been doing is putting the pup on the leash myself first and then having one of my boys take him to go outside, I see this purely as a training exercise so it only happens 1% of the potty trips outside and it's always under my supervision now.

Some of the feedback here and some info. I read elsewhere made me realized that I have to change the way the kids relate to the pup and the way the pup relates to the kids, so by putting the child in the role of leader over the pup he is changing the way he interacts with them, and I supervise the play time with the pup as well and make sure it is structured in a way that is safe for the kids and the pup, so the pup broadens his social experiences with the kids and they are always gentle and safe experiences for both... previously the pup's social experience with the kids was all rough play or pretend rough play and chase, so I guess what happened should not have come as any surprise, but so far the new approach is going very well, the pup has really changed the way he relates to the kids, I think he's starting to see them more as his pack leaders and less like litter mates.

Obviously I'm sure this will be an ongoing process but I am pleasantly surprised by how quickly the pup changed his behavior, I think these dogs are smarter then I realized because he surprises me daily with something new he's learned, like for example when we first got him he was constantly grabbing things that the kids where leaving around like shoes or toys and stuff that I would have to wrestle from the pup's mouth because he wanted to keep whatever he was playing with, now when he has something in his mouth he shouldn't have I say "leave it" and go to get it from him and he literally spits out of his mouth for me take away.

A couple of days ago he walked by the mirror in the front hall and recognized his reflection, he played with himself in the mirror for a while, we took a pic cause it was so cute (below), but none of my previous dogs ever acknowledge that they saw the "dog in the mirror" and certianly never interacted with their own reflections. Check out the pic below cause he was kissing himself in the mirror and giving himself a high five! LOL

 

[NeSaxena]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

That's an adorable picture! Midas is very photogenic, looking at the rest of his pics as well. Have I mentioned I looooooooooovvveee his eyes?

 

[sharp1]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Thanks NeSaxena, we loved the look of him since we first saw him. He has marking on his face that kind of simulate human eyebrows so it makes his eyes very expressive. I hope he's still cute when he weighs 120 pounds like his parents..lol

 

[jcook]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

Stella bit my bf the first night we got her! she had a 16 hour flight and was terrified. We got home with her at 3 am and brought her to the yard to go potty, she tripped over the lid to our barbecue and it startled the piss out of her (literally), she was screaming, adam went to pick her up and she bit him!

That was the ONLY time she bit someone. so, like others are saying, your puppy was probably just scared or was trying to play and it really isn't an indication that there will be future problems. Stella was fearful for the first couple weeks we had her and even showed two instances of food aggression/resource guarding, BUT that was the ONLY time she ever acted like that.

And I cant even imagine raising Stella around kids, so kudos to everyone who can manage puppies and children lol. I did have Stella stay at my sisters with her 4 kids for about a week, everyone survived but my 12 month old nephew would cry every time Stella LICKED him, haha.

 

[mx5055]

Re: ok so we've run into our first "problem" with our new pup Midas

That is a fantastic pic of your dog playing with his reflection in the mirror