Lunging and barking at strangers, bit a neighbor

[7121548]

In the past month or so, my Neapolitan Mastiff, Dozer, has started lunging and barking at people when I take him outside. He's always done it with other dogs, but only recently started doing it with people. I'm not sure if he thinks he's protecting me, if he's scared, or whatever else. He doesn't bark at all people--only some, but there's no common feature among the people he chooses to bark or lunge at. If someone approaches him and he doesn't bark, he'll gladly take a pat on the head from them.

I've been having a private trainer come over and we're working on his impulse control, leave it, etc., and he does fine when we're inside at home. But until I'm able to fully trust him around strangers, I try to only take him out when it's not so busy outside (I live downtown in a large city, and there are always people walking around my building) because I'm afraid of him lunging or biting someone.

Well today when I was taking him back inside the condo, he bit one of the neighbors who was holding the door open for us at the top of the stairs. No growl or warning, just a swift nip to the guy's stomach after sniffing him for like 2 seconds. I wasn't sure if it was an aggressive bite, because he also tends to nip when he gets really excited. Fortunately it wasn't bleeding, but there's likely to be some bruising at the very least. I felt horrible and offered to pay for any medical attention if necessary, and now I can expect a nasty letter from the HOA. Is there anything else I should be doing? I'm still a little shaken up.

I'm also worried and frustrated because I'm not sure what to do at this point. The last time he went to the vet (a little over a month ago?), he was fine, and nothing seems to be bothering him physically. We already have a trainer coming over. What more can I do--get a muzzle? I'm not sure if should be keeping him away from strangers, or trying to get him more used to them. As background, I rescued him from a shelter 3 months ago and they didn't really have any history on him. He's about 3.5 years old (so I was told).

Can anyone provide any insight on this situation? Thanks!!!

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

It sounds like you are doing your best. Continue working with the trainer and be vigilant. I'm sure it's something he's brought along with him from the past and just needs your help to work past it.

 

[7121548]

Just wanted to add that while we were outside, he saw another dog and got really excited about that, so I'm not sure if he was still hyped up on our way back inside and maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[7121548]

It sounds like you are doing your best. Continue working with the trainer and be vigilant. I'm sure it's something he's brought along with him from the past and just needs your help to work past it.

Thanks! I'm more nervous than ever now taking him outside, so I hopefully I can at least act calm so he doesn't start freaking out. I've never had a dog who wasn't good with people so this is all new to me.

 

[danielleconn]

If you are that nervous, I would get a muzzle for safety reasons & to ease your nerves. Keep working with the trainer & keep things positive. It would be best for your pup to ignore people as you are out & about...at least for now until he is more comfortable. Even if he is excited, ignoring people & keeping space is better. Three months isn't very long for the two of you to be together yet and you have three years of unknown behaviors to figure out and work through. So if you already know he can be an excited nipper than a muzzle should ease both of you either way. Don't take this as a bad thing or bad dog...it will just bring you comfort while you work through this. Dozer will feed off your feelings & if you are nervous he may become defensive. Maybe bring this up with your trainer at your next session. If he is doing well inside the house, maybe it's time to step outside but with minimal distractions.

 

[Liz_M]

I had a very fear-aggressive GSDx (towards people, not sure if that's the issue with your boy) and have had a couple of strongly DA Rottweilers in the past...but whatever the reason, their job was to learn to ignore other people/dogs, and mine was to a: help them learn that and b: protect them from being put in situations where they were likely to bite. So I'd say letting your dog sniff the neighbor was violating both of those principles. Your dog has to know he can trust in you to protect him, not the other way around. I'm guessing a superficial nip is fear or anxiety, not true dominant/aggression and certainly not being protective. Both the latter would be prefaced by clear warning behaviour, and then followed by a level 2 or greater bite, I think.


I think you're doing the right thing by working with a trainer - that's what helped me learn how to deal as well - but doing what you are doing, as well as teaching him to focus on YOU and nothing else at all times especially with distractions, is a good strategy. Hopefully your trainer will gradually be transitioning to Dozer being capable of being more relaxed around distractions.


I personally do not think at his age and breed he should be forced into being polite or social with other people; that is not fair to him. He needs to learn to ignore them and be non-reactive. If you've had him three months, he's right on schedule for coming into his own after the "new rescue honeymoon."


No clue on the muzzle, I've read conflicting info on whether they lower the dogs' inhibitions or not...the only time I've ever used one was at the vet with the GSDx. I have to say, it did seem to calm her down once she realised she did not have the option to snap. It probably unconsciously lowered my anxiety level about her snapping too. It was a basket muzzle I ordered through Leerburg, rigid plastic but one the dog can drink and take treats through.

 

[7121548]

If you are that nervous, I would get a muzzle for safety reasons & to ease your nerves. Keep working with the trainer & keep things positive. It would be best for your pup to ignore people as you are out & about...at least for now until he is more comfortable. Even if he is excited, ignoring people & keeping space is better. Three months isn't very long for the two of you to be together yet and you have three years of unknown behaviors to figure out and work through. So if you already know he can be an excited nipper than a muzzle should ease both of you either way. Don't take this as a bad thing or bad dog...it will just bring you comfort while you work through this. Dozer will feed off your feelings & if you are nervous he may become defensive. Maybe bring this up with your trainer at your next session. If he is doing well inside the house, maybe it's time to step outside but with minimal distractions.

Thank you! I'm usually hyperaware of people and dogs and will try to avoid them, but sometimes they're just coming from all directions. And when he sees something of interest to him, he'll stare and freeze, then it becomes difficult to turn him around or have him focus back on me (even with treats). I know teaching him to ignore will take some time, but after this bite, I guess I'm overly eager for it to happen! I think a muzzle for safety reasons is a good idea; it might be too risky to not have one at this point.

 

[7121548]

I had a very fear-aggressive GSDx (towards people, not sure if that's the issue with your boy) and have had a couple of strongly DA Rottweilers in the past...but whatever the reason, their job was to learn to ignore other people/dogs, and mine was to a: help them learn that and b: protect them from being put in situations where they were likely to bite. So I'd say letting your dog sniff the neighbor was violating both of those principles. Your dog has to know he can trust in you to protect him, not the other way around. I'm guessing a superficial nip is fear or anxiety, not true dominant/aggression and certainly not being protective. Both the latter would be prefaced by clear warning behaviour, and then followed by a level 2 or greater bite, I think.


I think you're doing the right thing by working with a trainer - that's what helped me learn how to deal as well - but doing what you are doing, as well as teaching him to focus on YOU and nothing else at all times especially with distractions, is a good strategy. Hopefully your trainer will gradually be transitioning to Dozer being capable of being more relaxed around distractions.


I personally do not think at his age and breed he should be forced into being polite or social with other people; that is not fair to him. He needs to learn to ignore them and be non-reactive. If you've had him three months, he's right on schedule for coming into his own after the "new rescue honeymoon."


No clue on the muzzle, I've read conflicting info on whether they lower the dogs' inhibitions or not...the only time I've ever used one was at the vet with the GSDx. I have to say, it did seem to calm her down once she realised she did not have the option to snap. It probably unconsciously lowered my anxiety level about her snapping too. It was a basket muzzle I ordered through Leerburg, rigid plastic but one the dog can drink and take treats through.

Thank you! In hindsight, I probably should have just asked the guy to go back inside and let us pass, or taken Dozer back down the stairs and outside until the guy got outside and walked far enough away. We've seen this guy before though, and Dozer never really had any issue with him, so it was my mistake for thinking we'd be ok just walking by. Better safe than sorry, as I've learned.

Just as you said, the trainer also mentioned that right about now would be the time he starts feeling comfortable enough to start showing whatever habits and behaviors he had earlier. I wish I had known what I know now so we could've started working on learning to ignore earlier! What techniques did you use with your dogs?

Thanks for sharing you experience with the muzzle. I'm going to start looking into it, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Yamizuma]

Baskerville muzzles are very good for our kinds of dogs. Your trainer can help you with getting pup to accept it. We rarely need to use it anymore, but there are certain situations where it has been well worth it.

A technique I've head about but not tried myself is to give the dog a job while walking...backpacks, carrying a ball or stick...others here might be able to tell you more about ways to keep the dog's brain and mouth in the right place on a walk.


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[karennj]

The dog absolutely needs a muzzle when outside. It will keep everyone safe and people will stay clear and give him more space most likely. It sounds like he is either fearful and overcompensation (lunging/barking) or he is overexcited by all the excitement outside and losing control of himself. The impulse control exercises are great and you should continue that as well as the obedience training. Did the trainer walk outside with you? A good trainer could easily tell the issue in one session just by watching the dog's body language outside. My guess is the bite occurred because the dog found himself close to the person and did not feel like he had the time or space to give a warning and went straight to the bite. His growl and lunge is telling people to back off, he is uncomfortable. When taking him out, muzzle on and give him plenty of space. If you see someone coming move over to the other side of the road, turn around or bring him to the very side and let the person pass. Your goal when walking should be space and calm. Is he treat motivated? Gets the best treats you can find and start feeding them quickly whenever your going to be passing a person. Like find something he goes nuts for. Get him focused on you instead of the person coming. If you have not taught a watch me or look command you need to do that. Make walking around people the best experience ever. You have to remember the honeymoon period is now over and your going to see the dogs real personality start coming out.

 

[7121548]

Baskerville muzzles are very good for our kinds of dogs. Your trainer can help you with getting pup to accept it. We rarely need to use it anymore, but there are certain situations where it has been well worth it.

A technique I've head about but not tried myself is to give the dog a job while walking...backpacks, carrying a ball or stick...others here might be able to tell you more about ways to keep the dog's brain and mouth in the right place on a walk.


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Thank you! I'll ask the trainer about giving him a job. Any way to keep him focused sounds good to me. Our walks have been short and strictly business lately, just because we're trying to avoid people and dogs for now, and because it's been like 100 degrees outside. I think I'll probably get the Baskerville muzzle. I hope it'll fit over all his extra neck skin.

 

[7121548]

The dog absolutely needs a muzzle when outside. It will keep everyone safe and people will stay clear and give him more space most likely. It sounds like he is either fearful and overcompensation (lunging/barking) or he is overexcited by all the excitement outside and losing control of himself. The impulse control exercises are great and you should continue that as well as the obedience training. Did the trainer walk outside with you? A good trainer could easily tell the issue in one session just by watching the dog's body language outside. My guess is the bite occurred because the dog found himself close to the person and did not feel like he had the time or space to give a warning and went straight to the bite. His growl and lunge is telling people to back off, he is uncomfortable. When taking him out, muzzle on and give him plenty of space. If you see someone coming move over to the other side of the road, turn around or bring him to the very side and let the person pass. Your goal when walking should be space and calm. Is he treat motivated? Gets the best treats you can find and start feeding them quickly whenever your going to be passing a person. Like find something he goes nuts for. Get him focused on you instead of the person coming. If you have not taught a watch me or look command you need to do that. Make walking around people the best experience ever. You have to remember the honeymoon period is now over and your going to see the dogs real personality start coming out.

Thank you! That all makes sense. When we first began the training sessions, the trainer did walk with us outside, but he wasn't displaying any of these behaviors at the time. Our next session will be outside though, so maybe she'll get a better idea of what the issue is when she sees it. He's usually ok and pays attention to me when no one's around outside, but there usually are people and keeping a comfortable distance is very difficult. It's going to take some time to get him to be ok with passersby. I feel like I should just move!

 

[Liz_M]

Seriously this is not an easy hurdle to overcome but you CAN do it! I was inexperinced when l had the GSDx and was actually willing to euthanise her (she also went after, and bit, a neighbor. ) ln the end so glad l didn't, she was an amazing dog for 13 years with me, once l learned to give her space and protection. We learn the most from the challenging dogs, we don't learn much from the easy ones.

 

[Yamizuma]

The dog absolutely needs a muzzle when outside. It will keep everyone safe and people will stay clear and give him more space most likely. It sounds like he is either fearful and overcompensation (lunging/barking) or he is overexcited by all the excitement outside and losing control of himself. The impulse control exercises are great and you should continue that as well as the obedience training. Did the trainer walk outside with you? A good trainer could easily tell the issue in one session just by watching the dog's body language outside. My guess is the bite occurred because the dog found himself close to the person and did not feel like he had the time or space to give a warning and went straight to the bite. His growl and lunge is telling people to back off, he is uncomfortable. When taking him out, muzzle on and give him plenty of space. If you see someone coming move over to the other side of the road, turn around or bring him to the very side and let the person pass. Your goal when walking should be space and calm. Is he treat motivated? Gets the best treats you can find and start feeding them quickly whenever your going to be passing a person. Like find something he goes nuts for. Get him focused on you instead of the person coming. If you have not taught a watch me or look command you need to do that. Make walking around people the best experience ever. You have to remember the honeymoon period is now over and your going to see the dogs real personality start coming out.

This advice is bang on! When Tali has her muzzle on people think she is scary as sh*t, and that's actually helpful since in reality she's the one afraid of them.

Sometimes people have commonalities, micro expressions, smells, things we don't sense but dogs do. Tali does not like hats or sunglasses, and hoodies send her into the deep end. Needs to see people's eyes.



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[7121548]

Seriously this is not an easy hurdle to overcome but you CAN do it! I was inexperinced when l had the GSDx and was actually willing to euthanise her (she also went after, and bit, a neighbor. ) ln the end so glad l didn't, she was an amazing dog for 13 years with me, once l learned to give her space and protection. We learn the most from the challenging dogs, we don't learn much from the easy ones.

Thanks so much for the encouragement and sharing your story. If we learn the most from challenging dogs, this dog is definitely going to teach me a lot! He's my first rescued adult dog, and not knowing anything about his earlier life makes it a bit more complicated. Don't regret it at all though!

 

[karennj]

Oh yes, you learn A LOT from difficult dogs. I have only had Bear since November but I am a completely different dog owner now. I have learned so much about new training methods, being calm and assertive, reading body language, etc. I have to say it is extremely rewarding working with a dog that has issues and seeing the fruits of your labor. It may take a long time and the changes may be so slight but one day you look back and realize how far you both have come.

 

[7121548]

This advice is bang on! When Tali has her muzzle on people think she is scary as sh*t, and that's actually helpful since in reality she's the one afraid of them.

Sometimes people have commonalities, micro expressions, smells, things we don't sense but dogs do. Tali does not like hats or sunglasses, and hoodies send her into the deep end. Needs to see people's eyes.



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A lot people are already afraid of giant dogs, but a giant dog in a muzzle might have them running for the hills! I'm half tempted to get the werewolf muzzle that was posted in another thread!

It's interesting how dogs pick up on the little things we don't even notice sometimes. He barks at people who I think look perfectly normal, but not at some people I think look highly questionable (and there are a ton of unsavory characters walking around downtown). He used to be ok with one of the regular homeless guys around here, but the last time we saw him, Dozer wouldn't stop barking at him. The homeless guy thought maybe it was something he was wearing that was causing some confusion and began stripping off his clothes! :scared2:

 

[Yamizuma]

A lot people are already afraid of giant dogs, but a giant dog in a muzzle might have them running for the hills! I'm half tempted to get the werewolf muzzle that was posted in another thread!

It's interesting how dogs pick up on the little things we don't even notice sometimes. He barks at people who I think look perfectly normal, but not at some people I think look highly questionable (and there are a ton of unsavory characters walking around downtown). He used to be ok with one of the regular homeless guys around here, but the last time we saw him, Dozer wouldn't stop barking at him. The homeless guy thought maybe it was something he was wearing that was causing some confusion and began stripping off his clothes! :scared2:

IKR! That thing would make me have to carry extra poop bags for all the people she nearly scares the poop out of!

Our dogs have different oK, not OK criteria. Eeeek about the stripping deal with the homeless guy, but full marks for him for trying to be the dog's bud. Keep the clothes on,no touch, no talk, no eye contact...give the dude high-reward treats to give to the dog....


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[Hector]

My dog did not fit the largest baskerville muzzle so it's best if you have a pet store near you to go in and try it.

 

[DDSK]

Wow so sad but I think a muzzle will be needed.