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OdinBB

Well-Known Member
Hello, I am new to this site and a new boerboel mommy!! I am loving every minute of it....:D His name is Odin and he is 14 weeks today and he weighed in at 49.8 lbs he is going to be a big boy. I just want to make sure he is healthy, he still has his puppy belly but when you look down at his back you can see his bottom two ribs. He is not supper skinny but he has a belly. I am feeding him a raw diet and he seems to be thriving very well. My question is, how should I know he is at a healthy weight especially for his joints and muscular structure? All the vets around here have no experience with raw feeding and have no advice on it. Also, anyone have an idea on about how big he may get? I do understand there is no way to get an exact weight because every bb is different and have their own growth patterns. BUT an estimate would be appreciated :eek:. I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say. Like stated earlier I am new to this site and I will be adding pictures of Odin soon.
 

Penelope's Mom

Well-Known Member
Welcome Odin! Love that name, BTW. I have a 2.5-year old English mastiff named Franklin so unfortunately I don't know much about Boerboels but he sounds like he is going to be a big boy. Do you know how big his parents were? Sometimes that will give you an idea as to how big a puppy might be.
Can't wait to see pics!
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Welcome aboard and congrats on your new family member~ Slow and steady growth is key to a healthy mastiff. As long as you can feel his last 3 ribs with little pressure, your pup is fit and trim. His adult weight will be about his parent's weight.

The following tips/suggestions are based on my experience as a dog mommy, forum member*s posts and volunteering at an animal shelter for a year.

*CRATE THE PUP

You want to crate train the pup. Make sure you have a blanket, stuffed animal (about their size) and white noise (ticking clock or ipod with soft music) so the pup can sleep. The pup is used to cuddling with siblings.

Make the crate the pup*s happy place to go to when he wants to sleep, decompress or just hang out.

*SECURE THE PUP NEAR THE FAMILY

You want to keep the pup in a room with a family member. Mastiffs need to be near their family members.

*FOOD

Find out what kind of food the shelter/rescue/breeder was feeding the pup and continue to feed it to the pup until you transition to a newer food, if you want. Most shelters/rescues use the cheapest food, meaning it is not very good for the pup.

Slow transition to the new food is as follows to prevent diarrhea. If at any time during the transition, the pup has diarrhea return to previous amounts of food per feeding. If you are switching flavors made by the same manufacturer, you should not have to do a slow transition.

Amount per feeding:

Day 1-4 ¾ cup of old food and ¼ cup of new food.

Day 5-9 ½ cup of old food and ½ cup of new food.

Day 10-14 ¾ cup of new food and ¼ cup of old food

Day 15 Start 100% of new food

Generally, mastiffs are allergic to grain and chicken found in kibble. You can check www.dogfoodadvisor.com for dog food ratings and customer feedback. Mastiff puppies should eat Large Breed puppy food and they can continue to eat the food all of their lives or you can switch them to a Large Breed Adult Food at about 8-10 months.


http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/31/large-dog-feeding-mistakes.aspx

You may want to check out the raw diet for your pup. Check out the sub forum on raw diet that has a wealth of information. It is not recommended to feed the pup kibble and raw food. Dr. Becker talks about this in one of her videos.

Check out Dr. Becker*s videos on youtube.com for a lot of great information regarding the raw diet. Here is Part 1 there are 3 parts to the series. Well worth the time to watch the videos.

[video=youtube;Qx2YIIpF4cc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx2YIIpF4cc[/video]

*PUP NOT EATING WHEN YOU FIRST BRING THEM HOME

They not used to their new environment and this is a natural behavior. Take the pup to a quiet place at meal times and sit and hand feed the pup. This will help the pup to eat when they are placed in a calm atmosphere, help you to bond with the pup and helps the pup establish trust with you. As they become settled, they will naturally follow your routine.

*PROTECT THE PUP FROM DISEASE

Keep the pup in your yard and place newspapers down where they will walk on the ground. Keep the pup away from dog areas unless they have had their 2nd set of shots, leaving the pup prone to infection with Parvo or other illnesses. This is very important!

*HOUSE TRAINING YOUR PUP

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/house-training-your-puppy

*SOCIALIZE, SOCIALIZE AND SOCIALIZE SOME MORE

Socialize after they*ve had at least 2 round of shots preferably 3 rounds of shots to be safe. Prior to the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] or 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] round of shots, keep the pup in your own yard. If that is not possible, bring newspapers with you for the pup to walk on. Avoid dog parks and areas with heavy traffic of animals.

*TEETHING

The pup will chew on anything they can find unless you re-direct the chewing. Provide frozen washcloths or small towels, nylabones, ropes, deer antlers, Kongs with frozen yogurt so they can chew to their heart*s desire. Some people use boxes, be aware that the pup will chew all boxes.

*TRAINING YOUR PUP

Start basic commands and reward with motivational treats (fav food or fav toy). Train for about 5 minutes per day and slowly increase the training time. Teach one command at a time. Once they master one command, move onto another command.


Number one command is sit. Teach the pup to sit, by placing a treat in front of his head and move it to the back causing him to sit to get the treat. When the pup sits, tell them good sit and give them the treat.

Second command should be "focus/look" This will help you tremendously when the pup is over 100 lbs. Put the pup into sit. With a treat in your hand (let the pup smell it), put the treat up to your eyes and tell the pup to look or focus. They may only do this for about 1-2 seconds. As soon as they look at your eyes, tell them good look or good focus and give the treat. Generally, mastiffs do not like to look anyone in the eyes for long because that means a challenge to them. Titan is up to 55 seconds of looking me in the eyes.

Other commands are "down/off", "leave it," "wait" (short pause), "stay" (pausing until you release) and "quiet/calm".

When you are training and when the pup does not do as you ask, then tell him no in a calm, stern voice and redirect back to the command. The only time a stern and loud NO should be used is when they are doing something that can cause harm to themselves or others.


Praise is the most powerful tool you have and the dog WANTS to please you. Show them clearly what you want, notice and praise when they comply, and learning goes much faster and pleasant for you both.

Mastiffs can be extremely stubborn and if you get frustrated with them, they will shut down. Mastiffs do not do well with yelling or hitting. Hitting can result in some unwanted mastiff behavior meaning fear aggression, which equals biting.

*LEASH TRAINING

Your pup will most likely not like the leash. Have the pup wear it around the house for a few hours each day and reward when the pup wears the leash with no issues.

If the dog pulls, do not walk until they stop and turn to look at you, then thank
them and start walking again. If they nip, put them away from you so they don't get attention--don't make it a game.


*PUPPY BITING/NIPPING/AROUND CHILDREN

Do not allow children and pup on the floor together. Pup will see them as playmates and nip at them. Picture the pup playing with their siblings.

Keep the pup on leash while the children are on the floor so you can have control of the pup. Pup and children should not be allowed to play alone.

If you puppy is biting/nipping, then try the following. This behavior can sometimes take a lot of patience and consistency in training.

They bite because that is how they played with their siblings.
When they bite, tell them “OW” in a high-pitched voice and “NO” in a stern, calm voice. NEVER HIT OR YELL AT A MASTIFF. They will shut down on you and ignore you.

When the pup stops biting, tell them to sit and reward. Tell him “good sit.”

Have the children hand fed the pup and help with training, i.e. teach the pup to sit, stay and come. This helps the pup to see them as non-playmates but as people in authority. These activities are great bonding exercises.

*EXERCISE

Puppies can exercise with natural movements and free play like running, stretching, playing on soft surfaces (grass and dirt). This type of exercise is actually healthy and good for their developing bodies but they do need to be able to pace themselves.

Structured exercise/play on hard surfaces and where they don't have they ability to pace themselves is where you need to be very careful. This type of exercise could harm the pup*s joints and bones. Puppies should not do any excessive exercise, i.e. walking, jumping, running and navigate stairs for the first 12 months to avoid injury.

Stairs should be maneuvered while on leash (even in the house) especially going down the stairs. Stairs should have carpet or rubber matting to give the pup traction. Mastiffs should be assisted up and down stairs until they are about age 12 months to prevent injury.

Most mastiffs can be very lazy but they still need to exercise. Generally, the amount of time to exercise is 5 minutes per each month of age.

*YOUR PUP AND HEAT (NOT THE FEMALE HEAT)

Remember, mastiffs do not tolerate heat. In the heat, reduce walk/exercise times. Have clean water available at all times. I freeze towels to either place on Titan or put on the floor for him to lie on in the summer to cool him off. Buy a kiddies* pool for the pup to play in to keep cool.

*DE-SEXING YOUR PUP

Mastiffs should not be neutered/spayed until 18 months to 2 years. NO MATTER what the vet says. Early neutering can cause growth problems and health issues.

[video=youtube;enPCZA1WFKY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPCZA1WFKY[/video]

Enjoy your baby! Have lots of patience! The pup will reward you with love and loyalty!
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
Welcome!!

Do you have pictures you could share?
Weight is not as important as body condition. So it's easier to comment if we can see pictures from top and side when he's standing.

"puppy belly" in my experience is due to worms... but I'm assuming you've taken care of any issues like that (they're normal, most puppies need multiple dewormings when they come home if the breeder didn't take care of it early).

Looking forward to seeing some pictures!
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Odin is adorable, as well as your daughter! I do not see the "worm" puppy belly. :)

Odin looks good. Slow and steady growth is key to a healthy mastiff. How much raw meat are you feeding Odin? What are you feeding him? Odin should be eating 2-3% of expected body weight. In his case, I would take the average weight of his parents to determine his expected weight. Keep an eye on his body, if he starts to loose weight, then up the food and vice versa.
 

OdinBB

Well-Known Member
For the meat mixture I am feeding him a mixture of raw chicken necks, boneless skinless chicken thighs, chicken giblets, chicken livers, and chicken hearts. I change out the veggies, this time my batch had cooked sweet potatoes,zucchini,kale apples, a mixture of strawberries, raspberries, and blueberries. I feed him 14oz of the veggie mix and 42oz of meat a day; for the morning he gets 12oz of meat, 4oz of fruit & veggies, in the afternoon he gets 12oz of meat with 4oz of fruit, and for dinner he gets 18oz of meat and 6oz of the fruit & veggie mix. So overall he gets 3.5lbs of food a day.

I do have a question, I used to give him canine complete made by whole foods I was told there was too much protein so I am looking for a good supplement to give him to ensure he gets all of the vitamins and minerals he needs. Does anyone have any suggestions?

One more question, I was told not to give too much affection to him once he reaches a certain age due to the fact he will take that as submission. Can anyone give me insight on this?

Thanks guys I really appreciate all of the advise.
 

OdinBB

Well-Known Member
Oh and I forgot to mention he gets between 6-8 eggs a week with the shells and we alternate between adding sardens and canned salmon to his food. I think that covers everything he gets........
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
Good looking BB. His weight looks good. His type grows a little thicker so keep an eye on it because he can put on pounds fast. Just a guess I am going to say he will be around 150 to 160 lbs at maturity.

I personally do not agree with the diet you use only because of 2 things. Too much plant matter and way too many eggs per week. 1 or 2 eggs a week is enough. I do not feed plant matter to my dogs. This is a personal thing with the belief that a dog is a carnivore not an omnivore and they do not posses the proper enzymes to extract nutrients from plants.

He should be getting all the vitamins and minerals that he needs from the meat you described. Some C and Salmon oil wont hurt though.

I never heard of not giving a BB affection. They are still a mastiff and crave human companionship. You will see in a couple months that he will want to be next to one of you anytime he can get away with it.
 

OdinBB

Well-Known Member
Thank you I think he is quite the looker too :). His mom is 135 and dad is 175, so yeah I can see him getting between 150 and 160 or maybe a little bigger but not much. So what constitutes slow and gradual weight gain? He has been averaging 3 to 4 lbs a week. DMikeM, you had mention the type of BB he is, what type is that and what other types are there?

I have researched and I have got a mixture of opinions, some experts and people say to add the fruits and veggies because in the wild the dogs would eat the stomach contents of their prey and there would be fruits and veggies in their stomach contents. And some experts advise against it. I puree the fruits and veggies to mimic the partial digested fruits and veggies their prey eats. Like you said it is a preference. Yeah I guess I could be giving too many eggs, he just always seems so hungry lol. When I do give eggs I give him two at a time and around three times a week.

So you wouldn't advise to use a supplement at all? If anyone does give a supplement that they are really happy with, please share.

I am happy to hear that about affection because I don't think you could ever give too much lovins. I think that is how you build trust, love, and respect with your children, animals or whatever else. It's all about creating strong bond.
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
Wolves shake out the contents of the stomach before eating it. This was documented by a study done at a wolf sanctuary. Small animals were eaten whole but large Ungulates were picked at and pulled apart for the pack.

Odi (my Odinson-Thor) was putting on as much as 6 lbs a week he is not the same type of Boerboel as your Odin. He is a tall lean and long hound like Boerboel, my other Boerboel Jade is like your Odin, stocky and muscular. The original farm dogs (Boer Boel) were not like Jade and Odin they were more like Odi. There were some thicker more robust dogs but these stayed mainly at the home near the family while the other type would be out working the farm with the farmer. They could handle the work better than the home guardian (I call em the warrior dogs, or soldiers). Both types had and have their place but a farmer would choose the houndier type to work his farm more often than the short muzzled stocky dogs.

Odi was is always hungry too but if you give in to it you will get a fat or oversized dog that could lead to bone health issues later. I checked around and there is many ideas about eggs and for the most part it looks like 3 to 4 eggs a week is fine as long as it is whole, if you separate the yoke and white you can get biotin deficiency from whites and and A,B, & D overload from just the yokes. Cooking them also makes them safer to feed. The supplements I give to Odi are Sure Grow 100, Salmon oil and Esther C. I also pour some olive or canola oil on his food each day. He gets a can of sardines and 1 egg per week. All my dogs also get bone broth on their food every day. This gives them all the GAGS for proper joint health. The Jade Institute | Bone Broth for Health Building: Nourishing the Liver and Kidneys

Here you can see 2 types of boerboel
1013806_10202695516563063_636010910_n.jpg

Odi
1888508_10202491761629317_1583490555_n.jpg

Jade
1375108_10202695515603039_1682746043_n.jpg
 

OdinBB

Well-Known Member
Both of your dogs are beautiful!!! Thank you for sharing those photos, now I know the difference between the two BB you explained in your last post. I will cut down the amount of eggs he gets a week and do more research on whether or not to feed the fruits and veggies. Thank you for your advice and your input I really enjoyed it.