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Gia @ 12wks

mx5055

mx5055

Well-Known Member
Gia is a very pretty girl, and very photogenic!! What kind of collar is that she has on?
 
NeSaxena

NeSaxena

Well-Known Member
Very very pretty puppy, but I'm not a fan of the prong collar on such a small one. IMHO, prong collar should be the last resort to train :)

Hope you have a whole lot of fun with her, she looks like a playful one!
 
Ak3179

Ak3179

Well-Known Member
NeSaxena said:
Very very pretty puppy, but I'm not a fan of the prong collar on such a small one. IMHO, prong collar should be the last resort to train :)

Hope you have a whole lot of fun with her, she looks like a playful one!
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well we have a very good trainer that has been training dogs for over 20 years who has been a military and police k9 dog trainer also. He does everything from basic
Obedience to diabetic detection training.
 
NeSaxena

NeSaxena

Well-Known Member
Ak3179 said:
well we have a very good trainer that has been training dogs for over 20 years who has been a military and police k9 dog trainer also. He does everything from basic Obedience to diabetic detection training.
Click to expand...

Well that's cool! I mentioned my opinion, which I think I share with a few other members here.
 
Ak3179

Ak3179

Well-Known Member
NeSaxena said:
Well that's cool! I mentioned my opinion, which I think I share with a few other members here.
Click to expand...
I respect everyone's opinions and love to hear what everybody has to say!! This forum wouldn't be much if no one started their opinions or how theyfelt about things. Thanks for checking out Gia's pics!!!
 
mx5055

mx5055

Well-Known Member
Just to clarify...THIS IS ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION!!! Why would you use a prong collar on a 12 week old pup???? (And, also my own opinion...any trainer who advocates using a prong on a 12 week old pup (unless there are serious issues not talked about); personally, I would leave that trainer in the dust!) Your pup is 12 weeks old...what are you hoping to accomplish with the prong collar at this stage that you couldn't possibly achieve with a flat collar? Besides creating pain, and results based on pain/fear rather than true training? And, as the pup get older and harder to manage what options have you left yourself with? Going to a choke chain or shock collar? Just my opinion, but why not stick with the flat collar at this age and save something like the prong for when the dog is older and if used properly, needed? I think Gia is a beautiful pup, and I am not trying to bash you or your trainer; however, I seriously don't believe that prong collars used on a 12 week pup are safe or appropriate. Just my opinion :)
 
Ak3179

Ak3179

Well-Known Member
mx5055 said:
Just to clarify...THIS IS ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION!!! Why would you use a prong collar on a 12 week old pup???? (And, also my own opinion...any trainer who advocates using a prong on a 12 week old pup (unless there are serious issues not talked about); personally, I would leave that trainer in the dust!) Your pup is 12 weeks old...what are you hoping to accomplish with the prong collar at this stage that you couldn't possibly achieve with a flat collar? Besides creating pain, and results based on pain/fear rather than true training? And, as the pup get older and harder to manage what options have you left yourself with? Going to a choke chain or shock collar? Just my opinion, but why not stick with the flat collar at this age and save something like the prong for when the dog is older and if used properly, needed? I think Gia is a beautiful pup, and I am not trying to bash you or your trainer; however, I seriously don't believe that prong collars used on a 12 week pup are safe or appropriate. Just my opinion :)
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I totally respect your opinion and glad to hear what you have to say! The prong collar, if used properly does not cause pain on the dog and if it does it is not fitted correctly or you have the prong collar with sharp ends on them. Gia does not respond to her traing in commands out of fear and pain at all. Every time it is time to train and we get the collar out to put it on her she starts to wag her little tail and gets very excited for her session, she loves training time!! I was wondering what the meaning of "true training" is to you? In my opinion your pup really shouldn't get harder to manage as long as he or she is trained well and knows who is in charge from the start. Like I said above I respect and appreciate everyone opinions on here and this wouldn't be much of a forum if no one gave them.
 
cookiedough39

cookiedough39

Well-Known Member
Interesting...I don't know about the prong collar because I haven't tried 1. I will say do what you feel is in the best interest of you and your puppy. If Gia is anything like my puppy, she listens when she wants to. Sometimes I can just see it on Carma's face. She's like F*** it. Carma knows lots of commands, sometimes she just goes through her moods. I am currently looking into the E-collar (shock collar). I used 1 on my 70 pound pitbull (rip) 7 years ago and it complete turned around his unwanted behaviors. In 3 weeks it wasn't even needed anymore. He was 7 months when I started using it. Now i'm starting to see trainers use the e-collar as a major method of training for police and military dogs. The only thing different is they use positive and negative tones on the collar. They like to use this because in bomb detection and things like that the handler can easily control the dog from a distance. By the time the dog is trained well enough the handler never even has to use the shock factor(only the positive and negative tones). I even saw this method used on tv for a military and police training dog reality show (I will look up name and post later.) Dogs can withstand way more pain than people think. In my opinion I don't believe the prong collar hurts that much. That's my 2 cents.
 
mx5055

mx5055

Well-Known Member
Ak3179 said:
I totally respect your opinion and glad to hear what you have to say! The prong collar, if used properly does not cause pain on the dog and if it does it is not fitted correctly or you have the prong collar with sharp ends on them. Gia does not respond to her traing in commands out of fear and pain at all. Every time it is time to train and we get the collar out to put it on her she starts to wag her little tail and gets very excited for her session, she loves training time!! I was wondering what the meaning of "true training" is to you? In my opinion your pup really shouldn't get harder to manage as long as he or she is trained well and knows who is in charge from the start. Like I said above I respect and appreciate everyone opinions on here and this wouldn't be much of a forum if no one gave them.
Click to expand...

Since you asked, I will answer, and please don't be offended, as once again this is only my own personal opinion. I will say that your puppy probably gets excited when she sees the collar because she knows it means one on one time with you, and puppies/dogs will do mostly anything to please you. True training, to me, is when you work with your dog and they learn to do things because they want to please you. Pleasing you if what most dogs live for. My dog is 6 1/2 months old (this particular one, I have owned and trained my own dogs all my life and I am 57 years old) and I work with her each day, and we are still using a flat collar. If the prong does not elicit any kind of pain/fear reaction, then why are you using it? Why not use a safer flat collar? I am not saying that as your dog grows that there might not be a time when you have to switch to a prong type collar when you run up against certain issues regarding training.
You stated " In my opinion your pup really shouldn't get harder to manage as long as he or she is trained well and knows who is in charge from the start.
If your pup (at 12 weeks) already totally understands who is in charge you are very lucky...but, once again, if you are totally in charge why the need for a prong? There will probably come a time, most likely when your dog hits "the adolescent years" that training will possibly become more difficult, with different and unforseen issues to work on. This would possibly be a more appropriate time to use a prong.
When I was younger, and trained my dogs, it was acceptable and given that a choke chain was the best method to be used. Technology and information are ongoing and updating on a minute by minute basis nowadays. I look back at the tools I onced used for training and can't believe some of the tools I used just because a "trainer" or someone else said that was the best way. I have learned better, and because of it, I believe my dogs are better trained and better adjusted members of my family. There is no question in my house of "who is in charge". None of my animals have ever challenged me. I can take away their food at any given moment, take a nice juicy beefy bone right out of their mouth, I have taught my 6 1/2 month old pup all the basic commands, I have taught her that the grandchildren are "above" her, the cat is "above" her, etc. For her age she is extremely well trained. However, I am not saying that some day in the future some issue might arise and that I might possibly need to change collars in her training. I will make that decision based on when/if. What I am saying, and remember, I am not bashing you or your training methods; but, it is my strong and firm belief that a prong collar should not be used on a 12 week old puppy. I do not believe that you are the one in charge if you have to use a prong on a 12 week old puppy. My opinion only, and I wish you all the best with your training of Gia..she is quite lovely :)
 
Ak3179

Ak3179

Well-Known Member
mx5055 said:

Since you asked, I will answer, and please don't be offended, as once again this is only my own personal opinion. I will say that your puppy probably gets excited when she sees the collar because she knows it means one on one time with you, and puppies/dogs will do mostly anything to please you. True training, to me, is when you work with your dog and they learn to do things because they want to please you. Pleasing you if what most dogs live for. My dog is 6 1/2 months old (this particular one, I have owned and trained my own dogs all my life and I am 57 years old) and I work with her each day, and we are still using a flat collar. If the prong does not elicit any kind of pain/fear reaction, then why are you using it? Why not use a safer flat collar? I am not saying that as your dog grows that there might not be a time when you have to switch to a prong type collar when you run up against certain issues regarding training.
You stated " In my opinion your pup really shouldn't get harder to manage as long as he or she is trained well and knows who is in charge from the start.
If your pup (at 12 weeks) already totally understands who is in charge you are very lucky...but, once again, if you are totally in charge why the need for a prong? There will probably come a time, most likely when your dog hits "the adolescent years" that training will possibly become more difficult, with different and unforseen issues to work on. This would possibly be a more appropriate time to use a prong.
When I was younger, and trained my dogs, it was acceptable and given that a choke chain was the best method to be used. Technology and information are ongoing and updating on a minute by minute basis nowadays. I look back at the tools I onced used for training and can't believe some of the tools I used just because a "trainer" or someone else said that was the best way. I have learned better, and because of it, I believe my dogs are better trained and better adjusted members of my family. There is no question in my house of "who is in charge". None of my animals have ever challenged me. I can take away their food at any given moment, take a nice juicy beefy bone right out of their mouth, I have taught my 6 1/2 month old pup all the basic commands, I have taught her that the grandchildren are "above" her, the cat is "above" her, etc. For her age she is extremely well trained. However, I am not saying that some day in the future some issue might arise and that I might possibly need to change collars in her training. I will make that decision based on when/if. What I am saying, and remember, I am not bashing you or your training methods; but, it is my strong and firm belief that a prong collar should not be used on a 12 week old puppy. I do not believe that you are the one in charge if you have to use a prong on a 12 week old puppy. My opinion only, and I wish you all the best with your training of Gia..she is quite lovely :)
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again, I respect your opinion and am glad that they way you train works well for you and your dogs just as the way we train works very well for us and our Gia. Thanks
 
Cody

Cody

Well-Known Member
She is cute. But I have to agree with above. She is way too young for a prong. I appreciate that your trainer has lots of experience training K9's but has he ever worked with a Corso? I have MANY friends who train their CC to high levels of IPO/Ring sports and none would advocate using a prong on such a young pup. These as well are people who train for police departments and military. They do use prong collars but on older dogs for polish. I have nothing against using a prong correctly, on an age appropriate dog, they are a very good tool. I however have not needed for my dogs as this breed has such a huge desire to please compulsion techniques are not required. I can walk both dogs loose leash past any and all distractions on a flat collar and lead, as they WANT to please me, not that they will receive a correction if they don't. Training a Malinois or German Shepard Dog (typical breeds for police and military) are VERY different then a CC. Too much correction at a young age will NOT benefit you in the long run with this breed. The best method is positive reinforcement at this time, this breed is owner/handler sensitive, and responds very well to that. Sorry if this offends you, but any trainer who tells me to put a prong collar on my 12 week old puppy I would be running far and fast from.
 
KristinandCianna

KristinandCianna

Well-Known Member
Your pup is stunning!!! Congrats!! I am an advocate for prong collars, I couldn't wait to get a prong on my girl. However, I did wait till she was 5 month's. I hated the way she pulled against the flat and choked herself. And I really don't like choke collars, they work too much on the trachea, and most dogs don't respond to the noise the choke makes when you make a correction. I work for a trainer, we always start the dog's in chokes, and move up to a prong if the dog doesn't respond to it. Our program is notorious for building up confidence in dog's, and strengthening dog and owner bond. We've had dog's start class basically peeing themselves they were so nervous about just life in general, and by week 3 our trotting around class with their heads and tails up, happily. Most of these dog's in a prong collar. So, I love a prong collar used correctly. But, I don't think I'd have one on a 12 week pup. I don't think I'd be doing anything but positive motivational imprinting with a 12 week old pup. Thats just me. That being said, your pup looks very happy and confident, so whatever you are doing is working! Good luck with her keep posting pics!!
 
C

Cane31

New Member
KristinandCianna said:
Your pup is stunning!!! Congrats!! I am an advocate for prong collars, I couldn't wait to get a prong on my girl. However, I did wait till she was 5 month's. I hated the way she pulled against the flat and choked herself. And I really don't like choke collars, they work too much on the trachea, and most dogs don't respond to the noise the choke makes when you make a correction. I work for a trainer, we always start the dog's in chokes, and move up to a prong if the dog doesn't respond to it. Our program is notorious for building up confidence in dog's, and strengthening dog and owner bond. We've had dog's start class basically peeing themselves they were so nervous about just life in general, and by week 3 our trotting around class with their heads and tails up, happily. Most of these dog's in a prong collar. So, I love a prong collar used correctly. But, I don't think I'd have one on a 12 week pup. I don't think I'd be doing anything but positive motivational imprinting with a 12 week old pup. Thats just me. That being said, your pup looks very happy and confident, so whatever you are doing is working! Good luck with her keep posting pics!!
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thanks a lot for the info and comments it is greatly appreciated!!
 
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