Formentino Breeders

[el gato diablo]

Do any of you have suggestions for breeders of the Formentino color CC? I like the ones that are a very light fawn and have very dark blue masks (and this doesn't really need to be said around here, but obviously good health and temperament as well).

 

[DalCielo CC]

Formentino is a dilute like the color blue. We don't breed for color but our last breeding produced five that were formantino. The photo below is a 5 week old female.

 

[DalCielo CC]

Sorry, 9 week old female.

 

[el gato diablo]

So, I guess the best course of action is to find a breeder that breeds fawns and keep an eye on their liters...how frequently do they pop up in your program DalCielo?

 

[DalCielo CC]

Simply put, fawn, black and black brindle are dominant colors. Formentino, blue and blue brindle are recessive (dilute) colors.

A dominant colored dog can be pure dominant and are called "Clear".

A dominant colored dog can also carry the recessive gene and are called "Carriers".

Dilute colored dogs are called "Affected".

A clear dog can only produce clear and /or carriers of the recessive gene, but not the dilute color. A carrier dog bred to an affected dog can produce both dominant and dilute colors. Cooper is a carrier and was bred to an affected (blue) female. Out of the thirteen they produced there were black, blue, formentino and one fawn.

It's believed by most experts (not all) that dilute dogs should not be bred together because of the increased likelihood of skin and immunity problems as well as other issues.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Sometimes you just don't know what you will get either as far as predicting colours. Our first litter we had 3 formentinos (out of a Formentino male [out of brindle and grey brindle] and a Brindle female [out of a black and a brindle]) what was shocking is how far back colour genetics (any genetics really) can pull because I ended up with a fawn in that litter with the only fawn in the 4 generations being a grandmother on the mother's side.

This past litter, grey brindle male [our of brindle and formentino] and brindle female [out of black and brindle] and we ended up with no formentinos at all this time, grey brindles, brindles and fawns.

My friends that breed dogs with similar colours, like danes and collies have told me that there is no accurate way to predict things like colour because we do not have the gene pool for it, even in their breeds it is hard with their gene pool. Best be is to find a breeder you like with dogs you like and if you are set on those colours keep an eye on the pairings you like. Be warned though most breeders are not going to take a deposit based on colour and will not guarantee you that colour in the end should you put a deposit on a litter that has some.

 

[DalCielo CC]

My friends that breed dogs with similar colours, like danes and collies have told me that there is no accurate way to predict things like colour because we do not have the gene pool for it, even in their breeds it is hard with their gene pool.

I know, it's sad that all my reference books are for APBT, Great Dane and GD's.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I know , think you are a member on the FB page for the complete CC that jolayne has posted some genetics courses that will be for online work. I am nuts busy this spring but am thinking this summer/fall I am going to take some.

 

[DalCielo CC]

If you are talking about the genetics and behavior course then yes, I will be taking the 4-22 course.
[h=2][/h]

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Yeah there is that one and I think one coming in May that looked interesting that someone else sent as well. Once we get the show done and year end over at work I am going to sign up for a couple and see if this old girl can still learn at the same rate

 

[Cody]

The only sure thing is that if both parents are dilute colors; blue/blue brindle/formentino then the litter will only have dilute colored pups. However be careful of breeders breeding dilute to dilute continuously as other troubles may occur.

 

[joshuagough]

You have good taste!

Do any of you have suggestions for breeders of the Formentino color CC? I like the ones that are a very light fawn and have very dark blue masks (and this doesn't really need to be said around here, but obviously good health and temperament as well).

 

[khplaw]

what courses? I would be interested too!

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I had always heard the same thing in regards to dilutes. Breeding dilute together you only get dilute, especially with a heavy inbreeding (father to daughter) of both dilute colours, as one of our “wonderful” breeders here in the breed on their website claim to have a black puppy from this type of pairing. But I guess that there is always the hope that someone doesn't remember the original posting of that particular puppy bring from a 7 mth old black male. For those that have registered AKC for a while, what happens if someone asks to have their dog DNA tested and the pedigree doesn*t match? Do they pull all the papers on those dogs/lines?

This is the site that had been book marked as having some interesting courses coming up online...

Basic PopGen - The Institute of Canine Biology

 

[Cody]

I had always heard the same thing in regards to dilutes. Breeding dilute together you only get dilute, especially with a heavy inbreeding (father to daughter) of both dilute colours, as one of our “wonderful” breeders here in the breed on their website claim to have a black puppy from this type of pairing. But I guess that there is always the hope that someone doesn't remember the original posting of that particular puppy bring from a 7 mth old black male. For those that have registered AKC for a while, what happens if someone asks to have their dog DNA tested and the pedigree doesn*t match? Do they pull all the papers on those dogs/lines?

This is the site that had been book marked as having some interesting courses coming up online...

Basic PopGen - The Institute of Canine Biology

In/Line breeding has nothing to do with the genetics of dilute to dilute, it is just that. A dilute to dilute can only produce dilute, regardless of their lineage. If you get black... well then someone else snuck in there Not sure I understand the rest of your post? Was the father a 7 month old black male? Or were the parents dilute to dilute? I do not really pay attention to what others are doing as it does not interest me, nor does it affect what I do and plan with my dogs. So no idea what litter this is in reference to. As for the DNA, unlike CSI, the AKC can only check the DNA of the Dam/Sire to direct offspring.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Cody I am more than aware that inbreed/line-breeding effects, in the case I am looking into there is a vast number of dilutes in the pedigree, including the claimed pedigree so I suspect you are right, someone else "snuck" in there. Yes I believe you have said before that you do not concern yourself with what others do so I am sure you have no idea of the case I am referring to, after all there are lots of litters happening all the time in our breed. Perhaps those with some experience being a breeder and knowing the ins and outs of DNA testing could PM me if there are any on the board, I have a few questions about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Avitus]

Yes, that was a very confusing case and I do remember the post on one of the pages ... I am very much looking forward to that Basic PopGen course as well DalCielo CC!!
http://www.mastiff-forum.com/member.php/10076-DalCielo-CC

 

[DalCielo CC]

Yes, that was a very confusing case and I do remember the post on one of the pages ... I am very much looking forward to that Basic PopGen course as well DalCielo CC!!

Do you know when the next class is scheduled to start? The website only says April and you can't contact them.

 

[Cody]

Still confused... were the said parents both dilute? Or was one a 7 month old black male? I am serious, lol, no idea what or who you are talking about. I vaguely remember a post on one of the many FB pages where someone claimed their black brindle dog was out of 2 dilute parents, and there was a debate about the possibility, or lack there of, of that happening but... but I don't believe it went anywhere and that the dog in question has since passed away.

 

[TWW]

Even if both are dilute, with many generation of inline breeding, thee should still be the chance of another color. Yes very very low odds, but still a chance. Similar to piebald in mastiffs, which was dropped from the standard in like 1870's.