Finding the Right Breed

[MissJoy]

I was suppose to get this post up a couple months ago, but I was unable to because of life in general. Now that everything is settled down, I wanted to get this written. Some of you may already know, but when I first joined I made an introduction explaining why I registered on the forum in the first place-- which was to ask for advice when picking out a breed that’s right for me.

While I’ve helped raise and take care of all sorts of dogs, this future puppy will be 100% mine. Both financially and personally. Before I get into discussing the breeds, I would like to mention that I am in no rush to have a dog. I’m still in college and won’t be graduating until two years down the road, and it still might be even longer until I’m able to provide good care financially. I figure, however, that it is never too early to start looking into different breeds and seek advice.


If you have any questions regarding this topic, please let me know! There are likely lots of things I left out that can be important when it comes to certain breeds. I also have questions myself that will be at the end of this post.

Originally I was going to go through the breeds, but I think I’ll list some of several characteristics I would like in a dog-- of course some of this depends on the individual too.

1) Protection(Watchdog) and Companionship (For both person and the brave coyotes here)
2) Eager to please (Not a requirement)
3) Athletic (I’m interested in doing Agility-- and I also have a Newfie mix who loves to run-- not a requirement)
4) 90+ Lbs
5) Quieter/Barks less often
6) “Couch potato†when indoors
7) No roaming tendencies (Preferred but not required)
8) Short hair

-- After college I will be living on 2 acres of land in Iowa, which is being fenced this summer, and is a rural location. Right now there are 3 dogs at the house-- a Newfoundland/Bernese/Pyrenees, Lhasa Apso, and Great Dane/Neapolitan Mastiff. The pup will be around all 3, and will experience humid summers and snowy winters.

Please recommend any breeds, they do not need to be molosser types!

Breeds I've been looking into:
Cane Corso (my current top pick)
Bullmastiff
Spanish Mastiff
Neapolitan Mastiff (Working lines)
Anatolian Shepherd
Black Russian Terrier
Chesapeake Bay Retriever
Rottweiler
English Mastiff
Great Dane
Boerboel


Lastly, I wanted to ask for any and all advice when seeking a breeder. This is my first time trying to find a reputable and responsible breeder, so any warning signs I should watch for? I know a couple of the basics, but it doesn’t hurt to hear them again.
As well as any breeders you could recommend me to look into would be great!

Please also share both the ups and downs to the breeds you have personally experienced!

Thank you for taking the time to read this!

 

[TWW]

Not quite sure how hot and humid your talking about.
Not quite sure of how you define "Protective", Mastiff breeds are guardian breeds, not watchdogs. They love there people, and or herd, they careless about objects.
The BRT,CBR and Rottie in your list are people pleasers, the others alot of people think are harder to train because they must be interested in something and get bored easy when it comes to training.

Cane Corso (my current top pick) (Eager to please NO),(85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for)
Bullmastiff (85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for), (Agility no), (Eager to please NO)
Spanish Mastiff (85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for), (Agility no), (Eager to please NO)
Neapolitan Mastiff (Working lines) (85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for),(Eager to please NO)
Anatolian Shepherd (Agility no),(Eager to please NO)
Black Russian Terrier (85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for)
Chesapeake Bay Retriever (brave coyotes no), (No roaming tendencies, may have issues here),(90+ Lbs No)
Rottweiler (85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for)
English Mastiff (85+ with high humidity, not the best dog for), (Agility no), (Eager to please NO)
Great Dane (Eager to please NO)
Boerboel (Eager to please NO)

These are just my opinions.
One missing from your list that I do think meets your wants and requirements is the Dogo Argentino

 

[MissJoy]

Heat and the humidity can get bad here, easily where it 'feels' like up to or over 100. Last couple of days it has been around 99 or so with 70% humidity. I've dealt with a heat index(similar to wind chill factor in winter) of up to 125.

My apologies if my post is all muddled, I didn't want a huge post so I didn't go into detail like I wanted.
And I think I've gone through so many breeds, so many pages of information on those different dogs, that it's all starting to muddle together sometimes. When I put down "Protective" I was thinking just that-- a more guardian dog. Not aggressive per say, but aloof with strangers? I'm not a terribly social person so I won't be around tons of people myself-- and only a couple people come see me consistently. I sometimes go to the dog park with my Newfie mix, and there's usually only one or two dogs(rarely more). Other times I take her to pet friendly stores such as Petsmart or our local feed store.

While I do think having a 'people pleaser' would be great, I'm also good with a more independent dog. Our Lhasa Apso was probably the hardest to train-- and my Newfie mix has proven difficult as well. Same with a Great Pyrenees we had in the past. All of them are/were wonderful dogs, it just took more time.
I also understand that there is likely no dog that has absolutely everything I want-- and that's okay. There are certain aspects I'm okay with sacrificing.

The BRT is one of my favorites-- though I've read they don't do well with other dogs? I'm assuming they mean the BRT isn't one to be around unfamiliar dogs, but okay with dogs they're raised around? I could be wrong. I'd like to find a group who own BRT's to speak with since I have some questions about the coat, and if they are okay with playing rough. My Newfie mix plays really rough sometimes so I want to be careful that the next dog can do that as well-- or handle it. Mostly she enjoys running more though.

May I ask which breeds you deal with on a daily basis-- or have owned in the past?

I actually forgot to add the Dogo Argentino! One of my fears though is that a person will take one look at the dog and think-- Pit Bull. I do think they're beautiful dogs, I'll have to look into them again.

 

[JamieHalverson]

First thing I would say, especially since you have some time, is to get involved in the dog world and go meet some of the dogs you are interested in. Go to dog shows, sporting events/trials and see them in person, talk to their owners, etc. You might find some that you thought you are really interested in, you are not so much and you might see some breeds you fall in love with that weren't even on your radar. Volunteer at a shelter or with a rescue; there are some fabulous dogs in both that are hard to find homes for.

I'd also say don't worry too much about what people are going to think when they look at your dog; I have a dog that's considered a "pit bull" mix and most people ask what kind of dog he is. People all the time think my Bullmastiff is a boxer... sigh or some kind of a mastiff mix. People can hardly identify most breeds and will probably think a cane, presa or dogo might be a pit bull or pit bull mix.

My Bullmastiff does agility, obedience, K9 Nose work, Barn Hunt and just passed her therapy dog certification. While she does all those things, training her feels like pulling teeth sometimes, people lover, YES - people pleaser, not so much.

 

[TWW]

Per daily bases English Mastiff, have had one to 3 for 20+ years.
Have friends with Neo's, bullmastiffs, Corso's, Presa's, Danes, Dogo's, Fila's, and Boerboel's.

Been planning the last year or so on a Boerboel pup and hopefully will be bring one home in sept/oct time frame.

 

[marke]

physically , athletically , our weimaraners could not come close to this bullmastiff bitch ....... and honestly i've never met a more athletic , heat tolerant 125lb dog., and she was one rough bitch ..... she could run for 2 hours and come home and play in the yard the rest of the day , i'm guessing most would have needed to see her to believe it ...................................................................................................................................................

 

[gilles]

you can look into dogos , BM, anatolian shepherds, cane corso, boerboel ..the problem is that some of these breeds are prone to problems and allergies in hot humid weather. the anatolian is a pretty solid dog with no health issues and surely a coyote destroyer and will outrun you anytime and extremely protective but very independent and will not be eager to please you so are many lgd breeds and is not an indoor dog. the rhodesian ridgeback is very athletic short hair and can take hot humid weather but not as big as mastiffs.i have CAO s myself and they are bigger stronger than anatolians can take on wolves and a pack of coyotes, very lovable and protective but also not couch indoor dogsl that said you can have different characters within the same breed ...surely there are some common characteristics but also dogs from the same breed even from the same litter can have different characters

 

[gilles]

physically , athletically , our weimaraners could not come close to this bullmastiff bitch ....... and honestly i've never met a more athletic , heat tolerant 125lb dog., and she was one rough bitch ..... she could run for 2 hours and come home and play in the yard the rest of the day , i'm guessing most would have needed to see her to believe it ................................................................................................................................................... nice BM !

 

[TWW]

Very nice looking BM Marke.gilles, I would not think heat issues would be much of a issue with a Boerboel, also there allergies are far less common than the other breeds.

 

[MissJoy]

JamieHalverson:
I would love to! Right now it's a little difficult considering I go to college-- and that's usually not close by to any good events. I've recently discovered the Meet the Breeds event by the AKC over in New York that I'd like to go to. I'm keeping track of local dog shows and will go to as many as I can. I'm hoping to be surprised and see some of the dogs on my list when I go to some events.

I'm also looking into rescues. Right now I'd rather stick with finding a responsible breeder if possible, but I do have a desire to about foster or rescue in the future!

And you're right about not worrying about other people. Especially since I don't have any concrete plans of being around them all the time.

Pulling teeth? Yeah, that's definitely my Newfie mix! It doesn't help that we got her at 4 months and she practically had no training beforehand. She's getting much better though! What is Barn Hunt exactly? Like what do they sniff for? Something like rodents or...?
And is your Bullmastiff around smaller breeds? If so, does she do well with them? And not sure about your local weather, but does she handle heat and/or cold well? I've read that Bullmastiffs are quieter(bark less), is that true in your experience?

Hope you don't mind so many questions!

TWW:
Are you by any chance the user who owns an EM called Mouse?

In your experience owning English Mastiffs, are there any down sides to the breed that may not be commonly known? This could be from health, behavior, etc. It is a breed I'm fond of, but not sure.
Since you mentioned Fila's, I've read that they are very aggressive toward people and other animals. Is that completely true?

Hm, are the Neo's aggressive as well? There are some sites that say they are-- if I'm remembering correctly. I do love the Neo's that have less skin, the ones that seem to come from working lines. I don't think they'd be good dogs for first time owners though.

What made you choose the English Mastiff if you don't mind me asking?

Marke:

You're Bullmastiff is beautiful! I've always loved the darker looking fawn coats.

Have you owned more than one Bullmastiff? (It looks like it from the pictures, but I could be wrong!) If so, have your other BM's been heat tolerant and/or athletic?
I love the pictures of the three BM's playing!

Gilles:

That is all very new information! I was not aware that those breeds could be prone to allergies in hot humid weather. I do like the Rhodesian Ridgeback, but that breed may be a bit too athletic for me.
CAO is Central Asian Ovcharka right? If so, I did use to have that dog on my list, and I forgot about it actually. There was something in the temperament I think where I had to say no.

What are the CAO's like? It sounds like you've owned more than one, are they prone to aggression toward other dogs, or same-sex aggression?
I do love the LGD breeds!

 

[gilles]

Miss Joy:CAO is central asian ovcharka or alabai ..yes i own 6 of them , i have a kennel specialized in CAO and my partner has one specialized with CO (Caucasian ovcharkas) i imported my dogs from the Ukraine and Russia.. CAO and CO are the most powerful of LGD breeds and actually can get pretty big. males are easily over 160 lbs , my kazimir is that much or more he is 11 months only.character varies, my males are calm and very very sweet females are more active and trouble makers. i dont have any aggression issue at all outside the kennel in fact its just the opposite. CAOs have a reputation of being dog aggressive due to the fact that many CAOs are being used in dog fighting. however they are not fighting dogs and if you get one from a reputable breeder with good lineage you will not have such a problem they are sweet and very affectionate especially with kids and will cuddle with you like kitties. my partner has a CO litter right now the cutest furballs you have ever seen but i do not recommend CO simply due to long coat.

 

[gilles]

Very nice looking BM Marke.gilles, I would not think heat issues would be much of a issue with a Boerboel, also there allergies are far less common than the other breeds.

thx for the info... i was just pointing out an issue based on my friends DDB and dogo who happen to have lots of allergy problems... but i guess as you said BB's are ok with that

 

[TWW]

TWW:
Are you by any chance the user who owns an EM called Mouse?
(Yes I am.)

In your experience owning English Mastiffs, are there any down sides to the breed that may not be commonly known? This could be from health, behavior, etc. It is a breed I'm fond of, but not sure.
Since you mentioned Fila's, I've read that they are very aggressive toward people and other animals. Is that completely true? (From health tested, fit parents in my experience alot less often, but yes, it seems way to many breeders want only size, and once a male is titled they let them basically bulk up to much, that health tested at 2yrs and great looking 220 to 240lb male at 3 or 4 becomes a 250 to 280lbs overweight slob.personally like a EM that once proven and of quality, to be close to the same dog when they decide to start using it in a program.)
(If there is a issue there size can make it hell loading them for the vets, for the 200+ ones)
(with what seems to be a huge rise in the last 5yrs of the popularity of them, bad breeding seems to be a extreme issue, incorrect temper in the form of shyness or aggression. There are 7 other EM owners within 10 miles of me with a combined 11 EM's, 4 of the EM's have completely the wrong temper, 2 of them I would say it is most likely the owner, other 2 are just insane and I highly doubt any amount of training would help. 5 of them Mouse sees often walking, they greet and roll on. you just need to be very selective with your breeder.)
(Fila's with real "Ojeriza", while I love them, I could never own because of the grandkids. There attitude with strangers is no joke. They love the people and animals that live with them and that is it.)

Hm, are the Neo's aggressive as well? There are some sites that say they are-- if I'm remembering correctly. I do love the Neo's that have less skin, the ones that seem to come from working lines. I don't think they'd be good dogs for first time owners though.
(Neo's while not nearly the same level as a Fila, Are generally very aloof and distrusting of strangers.

 

[TWW]

"No clue what happened to my reply since part is missing"


TWW:
Are you by any chance the user who owns an EM called Mouse?
(Yes I am.)

In your experience owning English Mastiffs, are there any down sides to the breed that may not be commonly known? This could be from health, behavior, etc. It is a breed I'm fond of, but not sure.

Since you mentioned Fila's, I've read that they are very aggressive toward people and other animals. Is that completely true?

(From health tested, fit parents in my experience alot less often, but yes, it seems way to many breeders want only size, and once a male is titled they let them basically bulk up to much, that health tested at 2yrs and great looking 220 to 240lb male at 3 or 4 becomes a 250 to 280lbs overweight slob.personally like a EM that once proven and of quality, to be close to the same dog when they decide to start using it in a program.)
(If there is a issue there size can make it hell loading them for the vets, for the 200+ ones)
(with what seems to be a huge rise in the last 5yrs of the popularity of them, bad breeding seems to be a extreme issue, incorrect temper in the form of shyness or aggression. There are 7 other EM owners within 10 miles of me with a combined 11 EM's, 4 of the EM's have completely the wrong temper, 2 of them I would say it is most likely the owner, other 2 are just insane and I highly doubt any amount of training would help. 5 of them Mouse sees often walking, they greet and roll on. you just need to be very selective with your breeder.)

(Fila's with real "Ojeriza", while I love them, I could never own because of the grandkids. There attitude with strangers is no joke. They love the people and animals that live with them and that is it.)

Hm, are the Neo's aggressive as well? There are some sites that say they are-- if I'm remembering correctly. I do love the Neo's that have less skin, the ones that seem to come from working lines. I don't think they'd be good dogs for first time owners though.
(Neo's while not nearly the same level as a Fila, Are generally very aloof and distrusting of strangers.

 

[TWW]

(Neo's while not nearly the same level as a Fila, Are generally very aloof and distrusting of strangers.

 

[TWW]

Ok forum being a bit more annoying than normal
What made you choose the English Mastiff if you don't mind me asking?
Family had Saints as a kid and loved big dogs.

 

[JamieHalverson]

Well, my Bullmastiff is my first, and she just turned a year old, so I'm not the most experienced person as far as the breed goes. We got her last June at 8 weeks so this is the first summer we've had her and she gets pretty lazy in the heat. But frankly, if you live in the U.S. you are going to have a couple months at least that are hot for these guys. I live in Minnesota, can't get a whole lot further north, and it's tough for them from about mid June through September sometimes... It's going to be about 100 degrees here today. I owned Rottweilers before my current dogs, though, so that's something I've gotten used to with my dogs.

You will find a difference in lines as to their athleticism and biddability. Take a look at Lee Waters dogs - Waters Bullmastiffs. They have multiple sport titles, from agility to disc dog, to lure coursing, rally, etc. A trainer friend of mine has a male from that kennel and I just cannot get over that dog... He's strong and athletic, even does skiorjing. There's a facebook group titled "Bullmastiffs in Obedience, Agility and Rally" that has pictures of him at a disc dog trial.

I always put my plug in for rescue dogs when people are looking... My BEST dogs have been rescues and have taught me so much! The only reason my Bullmastiff's breeder even gave me the time of day, let alone a puppy, was because I had accomplished some things with my rescue, and because a trainer we had worked with put in a good word. Don't under estimate the quality of dog you can get from a shelter or a rescue. My current dog, Yogi, is a Am Staff/Mastiff mix and earned his CGC, a Dog Parkour title, a Barn Hunt Novice title, is a therapy dog who volunteers regularly with children, has done adds for Target dog halloween costumes, does antler shed hunting and has done a shed hunting demo video and will do live demos at an event in August. He's an amazing dog and was a 2 time shelter return before I adopted him at a year and a half old. He's done all the stuff I listed and I've only had him for 2 years...

 

[MissJoy]

Gilles:
I'm glad you brought up the CAO breed! I did read about them a long time ago but the sites made them sound like very aggressive dogs, even on a breeder's site. So I crossed them out as I dog I would ever own.

Though your personal experience has me questioning some of the things I've read. When you say you don't have any aggression issues outside of the kennel, does that mean you take them out in public?
I personally don't like going to places with big crowds, but it would be nice to have a dog I can take out once in a while and pass by one or two people at a time. Or to some local pet friendly stores.

CO's are very regal to me, and the puppies are such cute little balls-o-fluff, but I do agree. As much as I think having one would be lovely, the long and dense coat is probably not something I would want to deal with. Keeping up with our Pyr's coat was hard enough!

Are CAO's independent as well? Do they play together for a while and then separate to do their thing? I'm assuming yes, but I want to double check.

TWW
I mostly asked because your avatar is very familiar. I read your thread a few months ago about a couple of kids throwing rocks(I think) toward your wife and Mouse, which the EM responded to and caused your wife injury from the leash wrapped around her wrist. That's actually a habit of mine that I've been trying to break ever since then.
It's a bit off-topic, but I just thought about it and thought I would ask. Mouse is a good looking EM from the pictures I saw.

That is one concern of mine surrounding the EM's, is the sudden spike in popularity, which tends to give rise to bad breeding. I asked for advice on how to find a reputable breeder(or what are huge warning signs for those who aren't) because not only have I never done that, but it's not something I grew up with either. My family had a dollar limit when getting dogs-- and have recently learned a very difficult lesson in why that can be dangerous. I'm new to it, and new to the dog world in general. I'm looking forward to graduating and being able to attend events and meet others with large breeds!

Fila's are beautiful dogs, but I think it might be wiser for me not to consider one right now. From what I've read they can be very aggressive toward strangers and other dogs.

Thank you for answering some questions!

JamieHalverson
I took a look at the Waters Bullmastiffs, and am impressed with the look and work ability of the breed! I'm going to also take a look into that group, I always enjoy seeing dogs competing in different 'sports.'

Yogi sounds wonderful!
While I am not doubting that good dogs can come from shelters, there are several reasons why I'm thinking of going with a reputable breeder, but I'm also not pushing a rescue out of the picture. I've been having a hard time finding rescues that are in my area-- at least one that deals with molosser dogs in general. Some are close, but I don't believe they adopt out of state. That said, I have a couple rescues close by that I follow, and will be watchful when I'm ready to have a pup. One used to be a Saint Bernard rescue, and expanded to other breeds and animals, the other does all sorts.

 

[gilles]

Miss Joy: yes i take them out in public, kids come and play with them all the time they are 100 percent stable and very very patient, socializing at an early age is a must, and eliminating resource aggression also must be done at puppyhood. they are independent. they do well with other pets and dogs, however they are one of the few breeds that show dominance. you only teach obedience, guarding and protection are innate. basically you have two types of breeders , one who breeds for show and working dogs and other who breeds for fighting mainly in turkmenistan and countries around , it is such breeders who give the CAO this bad reputation....CAOs are thousands of year old breed that is intended to walk among people and other animals for miles and protecting them from wild animals, any useless aggression is a fault. it is very important to chose a puppy from a reputable breeder who is serious about his dogs .my dogs are show dogs with a very prestigious pedigrees (parents and grand[parents multichampions including world and european champions titles)

 

[Hiraeth]

I'll try to keep this somewhat brief, and then will post advice about finding a decent breeder in another post. So, with these requirements in mind:

1) Protection(Watchdog) and Companionship (For both person and the brave coyotes here)2) Eager to please (Not a requirement)3) Athletic (I’m interested in doing Agility-- and I also have a Newfie mix who loves to run-- not a requirement)4) 90+ Lbs5) Quieter/Barks less often6) “Couch potato†when indoors7) No roaming tendencies (Preferred but not required)8) Short hair-- After college I will be living on 2 acres of land in Iowa, which is being fenced this summer, and is a rural location. Right now there are 3 dogs at the house-- a Newfoundland/Bernese/Pyrenees, Lhasa Apso, and Great Dane/Neapolitan Mastiff. The pup will be around all 3, and will experience humid summers and snowy winters.

Here is what I can say about the following breeds:

Cane Corso (my current top pick) – CCs are intelligent and driven, but can be stubborn to train and work with. I wouldn’t describe them as “biddableâ€.Anatolian Shepherd – Anatolians are stubborn, aloof LGDs who would not excel in agility or other dog sports. Dog friendliness is questionable, and same sex aggression can run in lines. Chesapeake Bay Retriever – Double coated and may shed more than you like. Smaller than 90 pounds. Vocal and would probably bark pretty frequently.Rottweiler – Smart, driven, stubborn but I know a few who do very well in dog sports. Very cancer prone, life expectancy is short. English Mastiff – Not athletic enough to be competitive in sports.Great Dane – Can do agility, but will never be the fastest dog out there. Biddable and trainable.

A few general things:

1. You wouldn’t be able to do competitive agility or sport training with any large/giant breed until their growth plates close, which happens at 16-20 months of age for large breeds and 18-24 months of age for giants.

2. Some of the things you seem to want are contradictory. You are not going to find an aloof dog who is also biddable and extremely trainable when it comes to dog sports.

3. About an “off switch†– I find that the ability to settle is a trained and learned quality and can be taught to most breeds.

4. Any LGD is going to be prone to wander, and many of the breeds on your list are LGDs.

I think a CC or a Rott would fit your requirements most closely, but they’re on the smaller side of what you’re looking for. Both are smart, but stubborn and may present a bit of a training challenge.