Daily Training

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

[video=youtube;478fRIZ5kA4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=478fRIZ5kA4[/video]

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

I wanted to share this to maybe help someone, some dog, and to open myself for criticism. Share your daily training videos if you want. Ask questions. Criticize(constructively).

 

[cj-sharpy]

i like it, all good commands and Roxy seems to be learning well. For the down command have you tried treating as soon as her body starts to move rather than when her body is on the ground? I notice you are using hand signals as well as vocal instruction, again thats great IMO, i do that too. Max could SIT across a room from a simple finger click and a finger in the air (I still use the finger when the GF tells Jack to sit so she doesnt loose hope) its hard for us guys to use a high pitched happy voice all the time but you handled it admirably, i used to get told of for saying "good boy" like I was chastising him haha. are you training a WAIT and a separate STAY command, wait can be broken from a distance but stay means wait till I get back? I didn't but I like the idea of it. I wish I had a yard the size of yours too, it looks beautiful where you are.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Nope I don't have a wait and a stay. To me they are one and the same. She does a lot better with down in the grass, or especially inside. She doesn't much like to down on the gravel(intentional, also the "instructional correction" because she knows the command, is the collar pressure). I like to sometimes use hand signal only, sometimes voice only, usually in combination. I try to make it easy on her as this was actually only our 2nd session outside, off leash. I also don't go over any advanced commands that I haven't proofed inside with little to no distraction first. I always say little to no, because she is distracted by things like her favorite spot, or Hank, or the cat while inside.

 

[JamieHalverson]

We are taught in class to use wait and stay seperately. I have a hard time with this. Wait is supposed to be the same as stay, meaning they don't move until given another command, but they know another command is comming. Stay is supposed to be stay until I come back to you at heal position and release you. The dog will NEVER (theoretically) move from a stay until you are next to them. This is one of the hardest things for ME to wrap my head around and I use the words interchangeably. How much that matters in the long run remains to be seen.

 

[JamieHalverson]

And what a good girl, Roxy!

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

I don't want my dog to stay no matter what. I want my dog to guard my person when the situation arises. If I said stay and am checking the mail and get attacked, I don't want my dog to stay. Stay is to cut and dry. Wait to me makes sense in our specific training regime. The next command could be a release or a come. The reason to break a wait could be a conscious decision to follow previous training. I'm not interested in teaching everyone the ins and outs of our personal training regime. I'm interested in helping people train their dogs to be well behaved family members.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Ty! She is a good girl lol.

 

[JamieHalverson]

Yeah, the problem I have with obedience classes is they train to show in obedience. Yes, I want a dog that listens to me no matter what. BUT, I really don't care if his sit in heel position is absolutely perfect or if he breaks a sit stay to lay down... Is he where I left him? That's more what I care about.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Right, you can see a time or two in the video where i didn't reward her sitting position after an automatic sit. That's not because I'm going to show obedience, it's because it wasn't what I personally wanted. A little off of spec for shoes is fine by me. My main thing is I want her to sit when I stop walking. I would also withhold her reward if she was leaning on me when she sat. I don't want her to impede my movement in anyway. This also applies to later when she will be placing her body between me and an adversary.

 

[DennasMom]

I see a lot of command repetition... and you're still luring with the treats. Luring is good to shape the behavior, but once the dog knows what the word means, the luring should stop. At that point, it becomes a bribe.... aka: "see the treat in my hand?" "Down"... and you wait until the dog does the command before you do anything... no repeating the command (unless the dog gives you a blank stare and really doesn't remember what you asked for anymore... which does happen around here)... when the command is executed "Good Down" to mark it - and then treat is delivered. If you look into clicker/marker training, you can see how the timing of the "Good Down" signal should go... the treat is in response to the "Good Down" acknowledgement... so you get the treat delivery one step away from the command execution, which helps in slowly randomizing the food treat (I still nearly always give verbal praise), then in removing the treat altogether (which may be many months down the road).

 

[DennasMom]

In one class we went to, "wait" was exactly what I used to use as "stay".... give the command, walk away, and then call the dog to you from afar... and "Stay" was actually MUCH more involved. "Stay" meant don't move, don't re-position, and don't stop watching me until I come back and TOUCH you to release you. Since then, I pretty much just always use "wait". It's very rare that I will ever need to use that kind of formal "stay" command.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

You did catch the part where I said this is how she eats breakfast? Hard to phase out the "treats" when it's actually her morning kibble./\/\/\/\ I wanted to showcase luring for those that may not even know how to begin teaching sit or down. The intention of the video is for beginners. So that anyone could mimic the techniques and get results with their own dogs. To suggest that it doesn't take a professional dog trainer to teach the basics. Inside, with little to no distractions I can absolutely not use any type of luring to get her to follow a command. She downs with very little issue. We've phased any sort of "treats" entirely from training(outside of BREAKFAST). Repeating a command (instructional correction) is better than "correcting" when they know the command and don't do it(IMO). Would you rather see me reprimand her for not wanting to lay down on the uncomfortable gravel? When she is used to training on carpet. Bribery is a human concept and has no place in dog training. Every time you use food it's a bribe in my mind. What's the difference?

 

[EM Nani]

I am not able to view the video, but think I got the gist of it from what everyone is saying. Right now my pup (Nani) is only 9 week so I am training her at home. I like browsing through youtube for ideas/ways to train her. I personally treat stay and wait as separate commands. Stay is when I have the door open and don't want her to come out at all and wait for when she needs to pause. I understand that you wouldn't want your pup/dog to stay if you need help, but wouldn't it be wise to use a different command? Since Nani is still a "baby" I want to train her as much commands as I can. Right now the hardest command is recall, inside it works 75% of the time and outside about 10%.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Our recall is 99.9% and I didn't teach it with a long line, ever. They associate coming to me with good things happening for them. In fact I can count literally on my fingers the times recall didn't work. That was due to my own frustration and Hank not believing it would be beneficial for him to "come". TBH it wouldn't have been, because I was out of my mind pissed. I have never expressed anger with Roxy and she recalls 100% of the time, gladly.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Oh I guess I should add I don't teach or verbally use a stay command. If I do say stay it'd be a fluke and not intended. Now you have me thinking I need to watch it again myself and see if I say stay. lol

 

[Hector]

I don't want my dog to stay no matter what. I want my dog to guard my person when the situation arises. If I said stay and am checking the mail and get attacked, I don't want my dog to stay. Stay is to cut and dry. Wait to me makes sense in our specific training regime. The next command could be a release or a come. The reason to break a wait could be a conscious decision to follow previous training. I'm not interested in teaching everyone the ins and outs of our personal training regime. I'm interested in helping people train their dogs to be well behaved family members.

Basically what I'm seeing from your "wait" command is just a stay command. I feel like no matter which word you use to train a stay right there behavior, the dog has to remain in place until released - just as you demonstrated. I use wait at crosswalks and stays for all other stays. I don't think any dog will just stay if the owner was getting attacked. I think they are capable of knowing the difference unless you specifically trained for a stay no matter what even if I am getting attacked which no one in their right mind would lol.

 

[Hector]

Bribery is a human concept and has no place in dog training. Every time you use food it's a bribe in my mind. What's the difference?

I'm sorry, but there is a difference in bribes and rewards. Totally different. For example, bribing is showing the dog there is food in front of their faces or your hand and the dog knows this so it willingly does behaviors to get the food. Also, the most common problem with people that use treats/foods to train is that they don't know how to phase out the food. Instead they get a dog that suddenly doesn't listen without having food flashed in their faces and you get frustrated/confused owners that bash the food training system. Rewarding is giving the dog the food after it's done a behavior you asked for/liked without the dog knowing/seeing the rewards. The dog obeys without knowing that it will get rewarded and is doing it because it has a strong history of reinforcement and fluency. When you get to that phase, you don't need rewards such as food/toys and have reached a level of training where praise is the reward and the dog is happy with that.

 

[Hector]

I can see she is uncomfortable with downing on the gravel. Is it because of the gravel or do you think it's difficult for her to get down? Is she just learning all of these basics? Do you use markers and release words? I also see that after a command, sometimes you ask for a different behavior and sometimes you ask for duration and I feel like if you used markers and release words, it would make things more clear for her. She has a great wait and come by the way.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Part of training that isn't in the video or even talked about much around here is, training the dog to LIKE following commands. That way, when I recall(for example) even without food, which is 100% of the time when we aren't doing it for breakfast, they come 99.9% of the time.