Clicking/cracking bones/joints

Discussion in 'General Mastiff Discussion' started by TylerDurden, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Starting today, I have heard cracking/clicking noises in some of Bane‘s movements. It‘s almost random, and I can‘t hear anything when he walks normally. He‘s in no pain or discomfort, and is generally very active (long walks and free play). He is never being over exercised, and his parents were tested for hip dysplasia. He is almost 15 month old and in ideal body condition. Any ideas? Hip Dysplasia came to mind, but I really don‘t know. Could it be related to a growth spurt? I‘m having difficulty locating the sound, so I can‘t even tell if it‘s strictly coming from the hips.
     
  2. Smokeycat

    Smokeycat Well-Known Member

    Personally I would have it checked out by a vet. I will say I am biased in that Kryten was 15 months old when he was diagnosed with bilateral elbow dysplasia. Prior to the injury that broke the fragment loose in his elbow there were no signs that anything was wrong or that he was in pain (all signs were only noticeable in hind sight after I had learnt a lot about elbow dysplasia). I also discovered that a dog that truly trusts it human may allow them to manipulate joints that hurt without protesting but will be quick to protest when someone else does the manipulation.
    I am not saying that I think that there is anything physically wrong with Bane but I do know that the earlier something is caught the better the long term results can be.
     
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  3. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Thank you. We will definitely take him to the vet tomorrow.
     
  4. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I don't have any experience with this. I just wanted to wish you luck for a good vet visit. Please let us know what they say.
     
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  5. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    The vet did a full physical exam. She was able to provoke some of "clicks" but they were mostly coming from the wrists, rather than the hips. We confirmed that he has never had issues, and that nothing has changed as far as activity, mobility etc. She wasn‘t concerned at all, and told us that the noises can be similar to what humans experience (knees, fingers etc.). She recommended starting him on a joint supplement, which we will do. HD isn‘t present in his lines (according to the breeder). Even if he had HD, we would not necessarily change much. We feed high quality food, give him proper exercise, soft bedding etc. The vet said we could do a hip x-rax but since he is not showing any symptoms, she wouldn‘t necessarily recommend it right away. We will keep an eye on it, but I‘m not necessarily for sedation if not necessary.
    @marke any advice in terms of exercise for general joint health? I‘ve seen lots of good comments from you on these topics.0
     
  6. Smokeycat

    Smokeycat Well-Known Member

    Good to hear. The major thing you can do to protect front limb joints is to prevent jumping down from heights onto hard surfaces, ie jumping out of a vehicle onto the road. One thing that can help strengthen them is walking on uneven terrain and terrain with different resistances (sand, packed earth, snow).
     
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  7. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the recommendations on building up strength. We have never really allowed him to jump other than catching balls etc. We use a ramp for the car etc.
     
  8. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Here is a weird observation: I‘ve only ever heard/noticed the noise inside the house. I‘ve paid very close attention during walks and play outside, but it never occured. The vet didn‘t have an answer to that either.
     
  9. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    best exercise for a dog is walking and trotting for long periods of time ........ low impact , often , long duration exercises …… high impact , infrequent , short duration exercise is pretty harmful ……. never had a dog with elbow dysplasia , had plenty with hip dysplasia , clicking , popping , cracking noises never had anything to do with dysplasia , I agree with your vet , those noises involve tendons or the joint capsules , like cracking your knuckles ……… a dog that makes it past a year without any symptoms from hd is going to hold up a long time even if they are dysplastic ……….. keeping them strong is a big deal , especially if they are dysplastic …….. imo , at 15 months it is what it is ……... as far as environmentally limiting hd , I think that's from 0-10 months ……. they say some of those supplements may inhibit osteoarthritis , they may , I couldn't tell you ……… I do know some of the anti-inflamatories out there do work as far as inflammation …….
     
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  10. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot. That‘s very helpful. In those 15 months, he has never shown any sign of pain, lameness, discomfort or anything else. For an EM, he can be very active and has never hesitated to go on long walks etc. If I let him, he‘d be out in the snow right now running like crazy. Considering that he has never shown any other sign the clicking, I‘m somewhat positive right now. However, if I listen carefully, I think I can recognize the clicking in the right hip. It‘s somewhat random and primarily occurs aftwr stretching. I have never heard it during a regular walk.
    Would you even worry about getting x-rays done at this point?
     
  11. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    unless I was going to breed him , I personally wouldn't x-ray him unless he was having a movement or pain issue ………. there isn't anything sensible they can do for a dysplastic dog that isn't having a problem ….. I've raised every dog I've ever had as though they were dysplastic ………. if it eases your mind to know what his hips look like , there is no harm in taking a look ……. just keep in mind there are a lot of reasons dogs can be "dysplastic" , the only one that is serious is osteoarthritis ……… this dog here was moderately dysplastic at like 20 months , he died at 12 without ever having a hip problem …….

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Yes, no intention to breed at all (we don‘t have breeding rights regardless). He‘s not going to compete in anything like agility, he‘s "only" a pet/companion. So it‘s really all about making sure he lives a happy, healthy, and painfree life. We might do x-rays just to know what we are dealing with, but this probably won‘t result in any treatment other than continuing with the right exercise, avoiding high impact exercise, and giving joint supplements. I really wouldn‘t want to treat him for anything that doesn‘t even show other than trough a sound in some movements.
     
  13. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Does anybody give their Mastiffs a Vitamin C supplement? I keep hearing good things about it, but I can‘t necessarily say that all the sourced are credible. If so; when did you start, and what‘s the dosage?
     
  14. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    I have , I don't believe it makes a difference ………… possibly if for some reason your dog had a vitamin c deficiency , which i'm told is near an impossibility , it may help ……….. glucosamine is pushed pretty hard , I think for every study that says it does something there is one that says it doesn't ………… one thing works for sure , constant long term low impact exercise , strong joints are less problematic …….. at the point the dog has real issues , rimadyl , for all it's negative press , for real works ……...
     
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  15. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I've supplemented with vitamin C, but not for joint issues. I had a cocktail of supplements for my boxer, Ed, who came to me with a lot of heath issues and both an immature and depleted immune system from the conditions he had been in. The dosage is around 18mg per pound of body weight. I used Ester C. I don't know if it would be beneficial for joint health as I've been lucky to never have a dog with that problem.

    I agree with Marke that there's a lot of conflicting information on joint supplements. I guess I figure that if it's not going to hurt anything it might be worth a try. I do try to supplement with treats and the addition of foods that are naturally high in certain things. Chicken feet, for example. I also think that many people start supplementing late in life, after the dog hasn't been exercised properly and joints have already deteriorated and I don't think any supplement can do much for the damage already done.
     
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  16. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

    I think the supplements wouldn't hurt. Also eating meaty bones help. If not meaty bones then bone broth. I make my own bone broth. It's very nutritious. We don't get enough gelatin and collagen in the standard American diet. So we consume bone broth throughout the week. I give some to Logan as well.
     
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  17. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Thank you all. As always, very helpful and highly appreciated. Like with so many other things related to raising dogs, there is controversy. Like you said, if there are no adverse effects, giving these types of supplements is probably not going to hurt (in the right dosage).
    I still find it hard to believe that he might have some kind of joint issue, as there are simply no signs. He goes on his regular 2 mile walk a day (+ a few shorter ones), runs around in the yard, plays as always etc. He never slows down, rests more than usual or favors a leg (no lameness either). I still find the occasional clicking weird, but it‘s almost random (never outside on walks). There is a popular orthopedics office where we will take him to in a few weeks. It‘s more for peace of mind than anything else. I‘ll definitely keep you all posted.
     
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  18. Pastor Dave

    Pastor Dave Well-Known Member

    Tell me, if you would be so kind, about the "bone broth" ...recipes and so on. I know nothing about this. Thanks, April.

    Clicking and so on....I don't know what to think about that. Young growing mastiffs seem to have "pano"..joint issues due to quick growth. Mr. Chev is a bit gimp after sleeping. I will give him a fish oil pill and some joint med.
     
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  19. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

  20. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    There's some talk about manganese being low in dog foods, and a lack of manganese leading to tendon issues... you might look into adding green lipped mussel as a supplement - I give Denna GLM powder, and it does seem to help her. She tore her CCL 2 years ago - not sure exactly what led up to the injury; genetics, weekend-warrior lifestyle and potentially a trauma event (slipping off a rock while on a hike) probably all added up.

    I'd definitely recommend a good joint supplement (glucosamine, chondroitin, trace minerals, etc) and the regular exercise regimen Marke mentions, too.

    I make a "tendon soup" for Denna. I get cut up cow feet from the Asian grocery store to use as the "bone" in my bone broth and add a few root vegetables for more vitamin and mineral content - it makes a very thick jellied broth.
     
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