Bullmastiff able to live with another male dog?

[Lola_Dances]

Sorry for the imminent wall of text!

HI guys! I lost my 8 year old great dane a little over a year ago and in the course of researching breeds, fell in love with the bullmastiff. I honestly did do a lot of research on the breed (this is my first post, but I have been lurking for months and months) and so we got our (now) 5 month old puppy in April. Everything so far has been going wonderfully. We began socializing him with other dogs, lots of people, basically anything we could think of as soon as we got him at 9 weeks. He goes to daycare two times a week where he gets to play and hang out with lots of other dogs in a controlled, and supervised, environment. And we take him on at least two short walks a day (while being mindful of his growing joints and bones) where he gets to meet lots of other dogs and people. We have him in obedience classes and are consistent and constant in our training of him at home.

My question is this: I also have a 13 year old shih tzu mix who grew up with my dane and so is used to big dogs, but who is at such a different energy level than the puppy that he usually just doesn't want to play with him. This doesn't seem to bother the puppy too much and he tends to just leave my older dog alone. Even though he has a super sweet temperament, I was told by a trainer that I made a huge mistake in putting a male bullmastiff in a household with another male dog. This trainer said that once my mastiff hits maturity he will almost certainly become same sex aggressive and will most likely try to tear apart my smaller, older dog. Honestly, this has terrified me. This trainer is supposed to be well regarded in his field and while I'm trying not to let his words get to me, they have me really stressed out as I'm worried I've made a huge error in bringing in a male bullmastiff into a home with another (neutered) male dog.

At daycare he is fabulous with all the other dogs, if he becomes too bossy or bratty, the other dogs will put him in his place and he backs off and rolls onto his back right away; he doesn't try to fight back, and I have never seen any sort of aggression from him at all. But this trainer's words have gotten me really shook up, and I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has had success with a mastiff living peacefully with another (smaller) dog of the same sex?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[NeSaxena]

And here's another example of an opinionated, non factual trainer... Apologies if my words seem too harsh, but people like these can infuriate me to no end! And I believe I share these feelings with a few forum members.

Agreed, your trainer may be well regarded and might be an excellent trainer in every sense of the word, but he's just generalized a specific trait. I'm not saying there isn't a possibility of two male dogs in a household who'll fight for dominance, Lord knows we've seen it around, but from what it sounds like, you're doing just fine with the socializing and taking care of the growing up aspect of your bullie Think about it - would you fight that way with someone who you've played with while growing up without any cause?

It's not only about temperament, though it plays a role in behavior. My bullie wants to play with everything and everyone, including dogs who're out to "tear him apart". He just doesn't understand the concept that there are some dogs he should not want to play with :lolbangtable:. Okay, so he's still a pup (at 7 months), but wouldn't a dog who's going to be that mightily aggressive in the future show some signs while you're trying to socialize him now? In my experience, that has happened, so please look at this only as my opinion.

Now if we were talking about a naturally protective breed like a Fila or a Boerboel, I might have put things differently. But a BM? Most of the time, I'm looking at my bullie's face and wondering if he's ever gonna want to do anything other than play or sleep!

Enjoy this puppy phase, it's not gonna last too much longer. You're fast coming up to the rebellious teenage time with mastiffs (around 7-8 months and then again around 2 years), and it'll be a lot more fun if you're interacting with him instead of worrying about the future

Oh, and welcome to the forum! We'd love to see some pics of your baby!

 

[Lola_Dances]

Thank you so much for your reassurance. I do completely understand that a mastiff's temperament is not going to be similar to that of say, a golden retriever, or a lab. I understand that they are a more stubborn breed who need lots of socialization and obedience training. I am trying to give this to my puppy, and so far he is doing wonderfully. He absolutely loves other dogs and people, and seems to take cues from older dogs when they are telling him enough is enough. His bite inhibition is wonderful, and I have no issues with resource guarding or human aggression. It was just how adamant this trainer was; he made it sound as though my puppy attacking (and potentially killing) my older dog was not a question of if, but a question of when. Just due to the size difference in my dogs (puppy at 5 months already weighs 60 pounds, and my little guy weighs about 15) I would never leave them alone unsupervised anyway, because I would be worried about my bull hurting the older dog just by virtue of his much larger size/weight. But to be told that your dog is basically a ticking time bomb that will injure, or even kill, your other dog is something that is weighing heavily on me.

 

[Primehns]

Socialize and neuter him, he will be fine, you on your part have to discourage and fighting, or dominating of the small dog. I doubt out of the blue your dog will attack your older dog. I know people who have male corso's that live with small dog's. Your trainer is so biased, i would find a new one, people like this are why breeds get a bad name. If you honestly think your own dog's a "ticking time bomb" you should have never got him, your overreacting, Bullmastiff's are great dog's, that do have a dominant personality, and can become strange dog aggressive, if not socialized. Your trainer is wrong, he may be well regarded like nesexana said, but doesn't make anything he says true. I would leave my male Golden retriever, and a male bullmastiff alone, as long as my golden doesn't start a fight. Try to keep your small dog from starting fights too.

If your really concerned, i suggest you get a proper trainer... I don't have a Bullmastiff, but have experience with other large breeds, that don't like other dog's.

 

[Lola_Dances]

Yeah, I definitely think it's time to get a new trainer. After his comments I don't feel comfortable with his bias towards this breed.

I am really trying not to overreact, and I don't mean to sound as if I'm sitting here nervous around my puppy, because I'm totally not, and his personality at five months is everything I could ask for in a dog. He walks on a loose leash without any issues (doesn't pull or try to get at people and dogs on walks), he knows basic commands (sit, stay, leave it, focus), and is ridiculously sweet tempered (though I definitely see his stubborn streak at certain times! ). It was just the shock of this guy's strong opinion that got to me, and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't wrong in thinking that this trainer has a pretty misinformed view of the bullmastiff breed. This is my first bullmastiff and I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything in my power to make him a well socialized and happy dog!

 

[Primehns]

You have to trust your puppy, your in charge, if he starts going too hard on your older dog make him back off. Don't let him rule the household, but at the same time don't be rough, i won't let my dog mount or start dog fights, but will let him protect his things from other dog's, without getting overly aggressive.

If you have owned a Dane, a bullmastiff may be a bit more dominant, but they aren't that high strung, from what i have heard, these are less extreme mastiff's, but are much more dominant than the English.


My advice is: Raise them together ( As you are ), and they should have more of a bond, than anything, these are really gentle protective dog's. Get him neutered eventually, after he starts too fill in, i still don't understand why your trainer said that, that was a really biased answer. I can't see a bullmastiff being that dog aggressive... Is he in obedience classes? Just wait for some other guys to chime in like Akbull they will help you out, as will Nesexana, i don't have bullmastiff experience, but i do have large dog experience. I love bullmastiff's, cute, gentle, loyal. I'm thinking about getting one as my second dog, from a well reputed breeder, so i'm going to take on 2 males in a house.

 

[Smokeycat]

I agree that the trainer has a personal bias against both the BM and same sex households. I have a 18 month EM (Kryten intact & 170 lbs) and a 2 yo Irish Setter mix (Jiggers neutered & 75 lbs). The ISx is the one I have to watch out for, not because of aggression but because when he get frustrated that he can't 'win' when they play he will use his teeth to pull on Kryten's ears or mouth. There have only been a couple of incidents between them that scared me. Both were shortly after Kryten's elbow dysplasia diagnosis and one of the side effects of his new meds was aggression. The one that gave the worst injury (I had to clean up blood from clothing and floors) was when Kryten sat on Jiggers. Jiggers retaliated by biting Kryten's ear, first place to could grab and when Kryten pulled his head away they tore a couple of deep gouges in the flap. Thankfully both were alright, Kryten realized why he is not allowed to sit on his brother and has never tried it again.
As for the size difference Kryten is great with my cats. He did roll on top of the youngest shortly after I brought her home (she was 7 weeks he was 9 months). The cry she let out terrified him to the point he actually shook if she tried to cuddle for a couple of days. He is an incredibly sensitive boy.

 

[musicdeb]

The trainer should not be so adamant about his opinions and they are just that...opinions. Unless he's had experience with a mastiff or specifically trained mastiffs, it is his opinion.

Yes, 2 male dogs can have a difficult time sharing the same household. Yes, your BM will come into his true temperament around 1-2 yrs old and he may not be as accepting of other dogs and people as he did as a puppy.

You appear to be doing all that needs to be done to socialize him and you brought the BM into the family as a puppy. Meaning, he is growing up with the older pup which will hopefully alleviate the male on male aggression. Time will tell.

IMO, ignore opinionated idiots who do not have a clue about mastiffs.

FYI: I would not neuter your pet before he is at least 18 months old. neutering does not fix behavioral issues.

 

[Lola_Dances]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing (lots of socialization, positive training, etc) and stop worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet (and may never happen). I'm also definitely going to look for another trainer, as my trust with this one has been damaged.

 

[NeSaxena]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing (lots of socialization, positive training, etc) and stop worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet (and may never happen). I'm also definitely going to look for another trainer, as my trust with this one has been damaged.

:cowboyclap::cheerleader2: I back you 100%

 

[Laura Lee]

Adult male Bullmastiffs generally do not get along well with other males. The key word there is generally. Your trainer presented it as an absolute, which is not supportable by facts, as many BM owners have had other males living in the house without incident.

Here's another example: Bullmastiffs generally drool a lot. In other words, many do, but it's not a definitive characteristic across the entire breed.

I had a male BM that didn't get along well with other male dogs, particularly intact males of the medium- or large-breed variety. (Small breed male dogs he found curious but otherwise pretty much ignored, even when they were yipping at him). He simply did not like to be dominated and would react accordingly. He also did not drool much. So, I had a male BM that fit into the general description on one particular trait, but not in another.

It's good that you decided not to sweat it. Just keep an eye on things as your BM matures. I highly doubt he'd go from being passive toward the smaller male to killing him in just one episode. My guess is you'd start to see little signs well in advance and then perhaps have to consider keeping them separated. Perhaps…

 

[Laura Lee]

Addendum: Just to be clear, my male never sought out trouble with other males. He was easy going…as long as the other males didn't try to dominate him. He just didn't like it and would tear into them when they did. I should've named him "Jack Reacher." Haha..

 

[marke]

it may not be an absolute , but as far as intact bordeauxs , and they are in my experience more aggressive than the bullmastiffs i've had , i've raised brothers together since birth , sisters together since birth , the only success i ever had was a brother sister , every other one resulted in an incident and separate kennels . we now have a older maltese with 2 bordeaux sisters , the maltese needs watched because she tries to push the bordeauxs around , and you don't need a lot of experience reading dogs to know the one sister does not like it ........not to worry you , but i assure you there is something to think about there , dogs are still animals ........we never leave the maltese alone with the bordeauxs when we're not home ......i'm sure neutered or spayed helps .......

 

[ruthcatrin]

Spaying/neutering MAY help with same sex aggression, but it more often does NOT help, so frankly the advice to "OMG, you HAVE TO NEUTER him to PREVENT IT" isn't worthwhile. It sounds like you have a handle on it frankly. Keep socializing him, and training him. And find a new trainer.....there's no way to absolutely guarantee he won't have same sex aggression when he's older, BUT, there's frequently warning signs before they snap. Its also possible he'll be fine with YOUR other male dog his entire life, but won't tolerate other male dogs as he matures. Again, something to watch for.

I do suggest crate training, for both dogs, as that will give you a way to seperate them easily if at any point you feel there MAY be an issue.

I have two dogs from breeds with KNOWN same sex aggression problems. Apollo (a TM) is a 2.5yr old intact male, Arty (a New Guinea Singing Dog) is a 1.5yr old neutered male. And thus far we've had no serious problems. BUT we limit their interactions when we can't be present to watch, and its something we keep an eye out for, all the time. Its life.

 

[Laura Lee]

Spaying/neutering MAY help with same sex aggression, but it more often does NOT help, so frankly the advice to "OMG, you HAVE TO NEUTER him to PREVENT IT" isn't worthwhile.

Agree. My male BM was neutered, yet still did not tolerate other males that attempted to dominate him.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I wouldn't worry about it so early on. Sure, there is a chance that something could happen like that but just as much chance that it will not. Just keep doing what you are doing and be sure that you control play and such and you should be fine. I have heard the "Two male dogs cannot live together" thing for years. Before Ruger the only breed I have ever had was APBT's (Very dog aggressive) and I had two males for many years and never had a single problem. It could happen but it COULD happen with a make and female, too. Glad to hear you will be getting a new trainer. Good Luck.

 

[marke]

the reason i think neutering or spaying helps is because the incidents with the bitches always coincided with their heats , some of the incidences with the males also coincided with bitches in heat being around , it alleviates that source ..... the other i've seen has been possessiveness .......... as far as a chance something could happen , i've taken that chance more times than i can remember , actually taking it today ..... it's always been equally sized dog , i've come home to some very costly $$ surprises , i've been lucky it's just been money ...... as far as the maltese , with the size difference i doubt it would cost much .......... how many times have you heard , or read "he was such a good dog , he never did that before " ............some folks can read the dynamics , most can't , and then there are always the surprises ...... we've definitely not bred the animal out of the dogs yet ................. JMO...............

 

[ZEBO75]

I think you will be just fine as long as you keep a watchful eye on both dogs. Bull Mastiffs are pretty good with other dogs when socialized but will not back down from a challenge. I wouldn't trust letting them both roam together when you are away from home.

 

[ruthcatrin]

the reason i think neutering or spaying helps is because the incidents with the bitches always coincided with their heats , some of the incidences with the males also coincided with bitches in heat being around , it alleviates that source ..... the other i've seen has been possessiveness .......... as far as a chance something could happen , i've taken that chance more times than i can remember , actually taking it today ..... it's always been equally sized dog , i've come home to some very costly $$ surprises , i've been lucky it's just been money ...... as far as the maltese , with the size difference i doubt it would cost much .......... how many times have you heard , or read "he was such a good dog , he never did that before " ............some folks can read the dynamics , most can't , and then there are always the surprises ...... we've definitely not bred the animal out of the dogs yet ................. JMO...............

well yes, spay/neuter will help eliminate reactions to a bitch in heat (though not always! I even know of neutered, EARLY neutered, males who've tied with a bitch in heat never mind fight over them!), but thats not the same as "same sex aggression" really, same sex aggression has to do with an intolerance of dogs of the same sex in general, and sexual status has very little to do with it.

 

[AKBull]

neuter him

Why?