bloat

[angelbears]

DD, they did not ban raw feeding, they discourage it. While Ruth is right, it is my opinion that the main motivating factor behind the AMVA is MONEY. They are in bed with the pet food manufactures. How many vets sell kibble??? Almost all, except for some of the old country vets(wish I could find one).

I love steak tartare and real sushi. I'm still a live and kicking.

https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/120915q.aspx

Just for kicks:

Steak Tartare, Raw Food For The Masculine Eater

Recipe type: Main Course
Author: Brian Lambaek
A recipe for the French bistro super classic.
Ingredients

0.65-0.90 lb (3-400g) beef sirloin – finely chopped by hand
1 egg yolk
1 tbsp finely chopped onion
1 tbsp chopped capers
1 tbsp finely chopped cornichons
1 tsp Dijon mustard
1 tsp of ketchup
1 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
1 tbsp olive oil
1 tsp cognac
Freshly chopped tarragon and/or flat parsley
Salt and Pepper

Instructions

Mix all ingredients but the meat in a bowl.
Add the chopped beef and mix well.
Taste and adjust.
Shape the tartare as a hamburger in the middle of the plate.
Serve immediately with homemade french fries (ultimately Heston Blumenthals triple cooked chips) and salad leaves tossed in an oil-vinegar dressing.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

If the animal is healthy that's all that should matter.

Edit to ad AB I agree about the money. PS Thanks for the recipe.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Pretty much, they get HUGE amounts of funding from pet food companies. There was even an investigation in some state looking into whether the AVMA hadn't reported them correctly....I keep forgetting to check up on that......the big push for this came from the Delta Society, who banned raw feeding among their service dogs after allowing a dog food company finacial officer onto THEIR board. It sounds like a huge conspiracy theory till you actually start looking at the money trails and realize its real.....

 

[angelbears]

I liked this quote.

ANDREA CARLSON DVM VALPARAISO, IN



I am a veterinarian and I feed raw to my own dogs and would hate to have my license on the line because I feed and recommend raw. Why doesnt the AVMA make it illegal to sell corn based food that isnt healthy for pets and has had several recalls for salmonella and toxins. There are far more healthy reasons to feed raw than the "risk of illness"

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I liked this quote.

ANDREA CARLSON DVM VALPARAISO, IN



I am a veterinarian and I feed raw to my own dogs and would hate to have my license on the line because I feed and recommend raw. Why doesnt the AVMA make it illegal to sell corn based food that isnt healthy for pets and has had several recalls for salmonella and toxins. There are far more healthy reasons to feed raw than the "risk of illness"

:thumbsup:

 

[excelrn]

Having studied microbiology, and seen what's in the musculature of some organisms, I won't feed my dogs raw meat. The vets that I spoke with talked to me about personal experience. I don't know when your "ban" took place, but this was several years ago that I looked in to this. I have a daughter who researched the raw diet, because she thought it would be a good idea. She works for a vet's office, and she works with a vet at a zoo. Her research, and her conversations with the vets lead her to decide that the raw diet is not the best choice for domesticated animals. That does not mean kibble is the best choice. There are other ways of feeding animals besides just raw meat or kibble.

It's a personal decision. I'm responsible for my family members, so I have to make that decision. You are responsible for your family members, so you have to make the decision for your family.

 

[Dakota Kid]

Having studied microbiology, and seen what's in the musculature of some organisms, I won't feed my dogs raw meat. The vets that I spoke with talked to me about personal experience. I don't know when your "ban" took place, but this was several years ago that I looked in to this. I have a daughter who researched the raw diet, because she thought it would be a good idea. She works for a vet's office, and she works with a vet at a zoo. Her research, and her conversations with the vets lead her to decide that the raw diet is not the best choice for domesticated animals. That does not mean kibble is the best choice. There are other ways of feeding animals besides just raw meat or kibble.

It's a personal decision. I'm responsible for my family members, so I have to make that decision. You are responsible for your family members, so you have to make the decision for your family.

What are the other ways of feeding?

 

[DMikeM]

Having studied microbiology, and seen what's in the musculature of some organisms, I won't feed my dogs raw meat. The vets that I spoke with talked to me about personal experience. I don't know when your "ban" took place, but this was several years ago that I looked in to this. I have a daughter who researched the raw diet, because she thought it would be a good idea. She works for a vet's office, and she works with a vet at a zoo. Her research, and her conversations with the vets lead her to decide that the raw diet is not the best choice for domesticated animals. That does not mean kibble is the best choice. There are other ways of feeding animals besides just raw meat or kibble.

It's a personal decision. I'm responsible for my family members, so I have to make that decision. You are responsible for your family members, so you have to make the decision for your family.

I work with a person that was a microbiologist and she is absolutely paranoid about everything especially about feeding her dogs RAW they way I do. Currently she has had her dog on a primarily vegan diet (yes vegan) 90% vegetables, some grain in rice or noodle form and a small amount of ground beef. Her dog has seizures constantly and the vet is actually enabling this diet.
So many of us here feed a prey model diet of raw meats, fishes and bones with great results compare that to the people that are kibble feeders that have there dogs in the vet for tooth cleaning, bloat, cancer, PANCREATITIS, salmonella poisoning, obesity, and dozens of other maladies. Also lets mention healthy hair, nails, no dog smell. Oh you know that dog smell is not dog smell it is grain (corn) smell. I understand your concern for your family but do you restrict your family to non meat foods as well or have you considered handling the dog meals the same as you would human meals? Heck I cut up my dogs meals at the same time I cut my own, flip the board and wash it when done.

 

[angelbears]

Our vet/med bills have decreased by about 75% since going raw. A huge savings considering it was running us on average 500.00 a month.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I can't say anything about the amount I've "saved" financially. Dogs eat better than I do, but as far as health benefits I've seen in them priceless.

 

[NYDDB]

When i brought my new DDB pup into my vet's office for his first check-up, he asked me what I was planning on feeding him. I told him I was going to feed him a raw food diet: appropriate bones/meat/organs. He didn't look up from his clipboard, but raised one eyebrow...and just told me that he hoped I knew what I was doing; it was not something he approved of. (Yes, by the way, his shelves are lined with the Science Diet crap...)

I told him I did know what I was doing...end of conversation. He never brought it up again; we just don't discuss it.

Meanwhile, the few times I have brought him by, he does remark about how healthy he is, how well he's growing, and about the whiteness of his teeth. :biggrin2:

 

[Gunny]

We fed Gunny raw for a while but it was difficult in our apartment so we decided to go back to kibble. Now that we have a house, and room for a deep freeze, we plan on switching back to raw soon. I can say with certainty that his coat and skin was much healthier when we were feeding raw. His coat was shiny and soft, and all itching stopped. Once I get a deep freeze in my garrage, I'm definitely switching back.

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

As far as bloat, I have no experience with it since Gunny is my first dog. I have to admit though that I was a little paranoid after reading about it on here. I still can't find any data on how common it is.

 

[Gunny]

As far as bloat, I have no experience with it since Gunny is my first dog. I have to admit though that I was a little paranoid after reading about it on here. I still can't find any data on how common it is.

 

[excelrn]

I started out with this:
Nutritional osteodystrophy in puppies fed a BARF diet
http://web.archive.org/web/20070322081546/http://ahl.uoguelph.ca/News6-2/ANwsl6-2.pdf

But then found this, which kind of sums up some things:
Churchill, the veterinary nutritionist at the University of Minnesota, says it’s much harder to create a balanced diet for your pet than you might think. When clients bring her pet recipes plucked from the Internet or books, “it always has some nutritional problems with it,” she says. She asks owners to be as skeptical of the people selling raw pet food or recipes as they are of the veterinary establishment. “Are they funding scientific research? Do they have data to show that their product is scientifically based? What are the credentials of whoever is giving you the advice?” She takes a dim view of the suspicion that vets have been snookered by the pet food industry. “I have not been bought off by a pet food company,” she says. “Most vets get a free mug at their national meeting; they’re not getting huge financial kickbacks.”
Even the holistic or alternative vets who recommend a raw diet say it’s not for every dog or cat. “The raw food diet, even though it’s a great diet, it’s not really great for everybody,” says Sara Skiwski, a vet at the Western Dragon in San Jose. “I get irritated not only with vets, but also with some of my clients who feed raw food and are fanatical about it. I really believe that the worst diet in the whole world is a homemade raw food diet that’s not properly nutritionally balanced.” Just as you wouldn’t eat chicken and broccoli every day for the rest of your life, she says, you shouldn’t feed your dog or cat the same diet of raw meat every day.
Finally, some animal experts are flabbergasted by the raw feeding debate. Katie Merwick, who rehabilitates wolves at Second Chance Ranch animal rescue sanctuary in Washington state, believes that many of the cures cited by raw feeders — skin infections, allergies, ear infections — can be gained by feeding pets a higher quality of kibble. Oh, and that glossy coat raw feeders brag about? That’s from all the fat in the meat, she says, which can cause other health problems like pancreatitis. As someone who has seen malnutrition and disease in wolves firsthand, she cautions pet owners against making a fetish out of what animals eat in the wild. “Our dogs are privileged to have formulated food,” she says. After all, “we don’t eat like cavemen anymore.”

Before I saw that last line, I was sitting here thinking about everyone saying raw food is what cats and dogs have eaten in the wild for thousands of years....well, humans did too, before we had fire, but now we eat cooked meat. Cooking meat is not going to take anything away from it that they need more than they don't need bacteria and parasites. I use a high quality, grain free, limited ingredient kibble (venison/ sweet potato at the moment, but I vary the protein) as a base for the diet, then I supplement with fresh-caught, self-canned salmon (including bones), meaty beef bones, and chunks of whatever fruits and vegetables we're using in the house. They may also get parts of the household meal, if appropriate (think leg of lamb bone, turkey tail and flat bones and organ meat).

 

[DMikeM]

excelrn, I understand your concern we all tend to believe what we want to believe. I believe a good raw diet is best for my dogs and have been doing it like this for about 20 years. My last 2 dogs before my current ones were a Doberman (rescue) and a Pittbull/Staffordshire terrier self bred. They both lived over 17 years old and the Dobie was actually 18.
The article talks about scientific research for dog food. Why? Did you do scientific research as to what you will eat for dinner? We know what to eat because we have been doing it all our lives. Wild dogs do the same thing. They eat by predation and opportunity. They eat what ever they can when they can. Dead animals or live animals and guess what, they don't use fire to thrive like we do. Humans can eat raw just like dogs but we like our cooked meats and foods because we like the taste and have been convinced over time that it is better for us. What you are feeding your animals will not harm them and infact they may do very well with it. Just don't be convinced that raw food is bad because someone told you it is. Think about it and form your own conclusions. Like raw carrots or cooked carrots, which is better for you?

 

[angelbears]

So you are feeding your dog cooked bones?

 

[DMikeM]

So you are feeding your dog cooked bones?

NOT ME! God I hope excelrn isn't either.

 

[angelbears]

Silly Mike, I know you're not. Read the last sentence of Excelrn's post.

 

[DMikeM]

I missed that part. Flat bones might be cooked rib bones. I huge no no for big dogs.

 

[mcarrel]

While we all do what we think is best for our own animals switching to raw came as necessity for me. My old Great Pyrenees was always fed the best kibble when grain free Evo first came out she was switched to that and later Orijen. I tried fish, duck and various protein kibbles. Gaia suffered with chronic ear infections, itchy skin.
One day in her old age she decided she didn't want to eat anymore kibble and that was that. After testing and finding nothing wrong with her except the fact that she absolutely was never going to touch another piece of kibble I switched her to raw as a last resort before euthanasia.
For the last year and a half of her life before DM took her from me Gaia no longer had any of the above mentioned problems. I felt bad for a long time because I wish I would have tried raw far sooner and she probably wouldn't have had those constant vet trips and a better quality of life w/o all the skin issues.

On a different note years ago my first EM Allie was on dog food for her first 1 1/2 years .
When I had my first child Allie decided she did not like having a child in the house. I gave her to a friend of mine who was an older lady from Chile who Allie had known her whole life.
This lady never fed Allie kibble she fed her how they fed dogs when she was growing up which was whatever meat she was having for dinner the dog was getting too.
If Anna was cooking goose that's what Allie was having and Allie got the innards too lol at the time this sounded nuts to me. Allie passed away in her sleep at 16 years of age this wasn't a small EM this big old Greco line bitch weighed 200 lbs w/o an ounce of fat on her.

It was Allie and Gaia who inspired me to start my current DDB pup on raw since the day he came home.
So far what I've got is a nice even growing puppy no tummy issues, no skin issues and just one bout of pano this past week.