Anxiety treatment/remedies for older dogs

[TricAP]

Very welcome. I'd much rather you get to try it for a couple of weeks before shelling out so much money. It's such an iffy thing. Give the Trazadone a few days. I don't know if it's like some of the other things I've tried, but sometimes it takes a week or so before they adjust and things even out. I know there are other things you can try if it doesn't work. Just be pushy.

Just read your response to my husband. He laughed and commented was that pushy is one of my more profecient skills. LOL!

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[TricAP]

Very welcome. I'd much rather you get to try it for a couple of weeks before shelling out so much money. It's such an iffy thing. Give the Trazadone a few days. I don't know if it's like some of the other things I've tried, but sometimes it takes a week or so before they adjust and things even out. I know there are other things you can try if it doesn't work. Just be pushy.

Boxergirl - the package arrived today. THANK YOU!!! Tried to send you a PM but got the message back that you've exceeded you limit for messages. She's been on the Trazadone for a week. Not totally comatose but still not her happy self which does make me sad. No running or playing, just aimless wandering around the yard when she goes out. Planning on switching to the Zylkene tonight and giving it a 2 week try - if not then back to the drawing board.

 

[Boxergirl]

I took Al off of Alprazolam and Fluoxetine because they took away his happy. To me, happy is a must for a boxer and if that's gone then quality of life becomes an issue. I think there are 21 or 22 pills. That should give you a good idea if it will help or not. If that doesn't work then we can all brainstorm again.

 

[TricAP]

Well - back to the drawing board. 2 weeks on Zylkene and it doesn't make enough of a difference (if any really) to warrant the price to give it to her full time. Any other suggestions?

 

[Boxergirl]

That's what I was afraid of. It didn't work well enough for us either. What else have you tried or are you trying now? Have you tried any combinations? Can you be very detailed? Like if you gave Melatonin at this time it worked until that time, etc. Maybe there's a combination that we can come up with.

 

[TricAP]

Here goes...We've tried:
Thunder Shirts and Comfort wraps
Quiet Moments (a combination of melatonin, L-theanin, chamomile and passion flower)
Lavender in bedding and as a collar
Trazadone
Trazadone with Quiet Moments
Zylkene
Zylkene with Quiet Moments
Diffuser (Angus pee'd on it)
Buffered baby aspirin with Quiet Moments
Composure Pro -previously for fire works.

All of these did little if anything to help with the anxiety and the Trazadone made it worse as the dose wore off. I forgot to mention we did discuss acupuncture with the vets and none of them thought it would help.

She also has a new behavior of being very hesitant to cross "lines". As in transitions from carpet to hard wood, patio to grass. She is even going so far as to walk around rugs and hesitate at the door thresholds. Not sure if this is from the supplements we've been trying or part of the anxiety. Reminds me of Alzheimer type behaviors that some people get.

As far as timing of doses we've done both AM and PM - no discernible difference.

Behaviors are worse first thing in the morning and late afternoon, or if someone comes to the door, excited play inside the house by other dogs. Her being able to calm down takes between 30 to 90 minutes of panting, pacing. then laying down and yawning, licking nose/lips, then paws, staring off into space and then finally going to sleep. If any of this happens too soon after eating we have vomiting added in there during the panting phase. We are getting walks in, weather permitting, and she is so excited on the walk we almost always have vomiting before we get back.

I'm taking a look at what she is eating also. We do feed raw so maybe she isn't getting the balance she needs. Our 4 proteins right now are chicken, beef, elk and venison. I picked up a bag of Merrick Salmon recipe to see if adding some healthy fats into her diet might help.

Any and all suggestion welcome!

 

[Boxergirl]

I'm going to pass this along to my daughter and have her ask her holistically inclined vet professor her opinion. I'll also go through my own notes. Melatonin - did that do anything for her at all?

 

[TricAP]

I'm going to pass this along to my daughter and have her ask her holistically inclined vet professor her opinion. I'll also go through my own notes. Melatonin - did that do anything for her at all?

Melatonin helped for 3 or 4 hours on a 12 hour time release. Agitation was much worse when dose wore off.

Thanks so much for passing the info on! Our vet is more of a traditionalist.

Here's a more flattering picture of Bella.

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[Yamizuma]

I so wish I had something that would provide practical help, and I am so very sorry I do not. I've been through dementia with people I love, but not dogs. Hugs to you and beautiful Bella...I hope you find something to help ASAP.


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[Boxergirl]

Okay. So we haven't heard back from Jess' professor yet, but she did remember some discussion of this in her pharmacology class. Anipryl was the first thing she mentioned, along with food rich in antioxidants. And then she sent me this article. Scroll down to about page three and there's some information there that may be helpful. We'll keep looking.

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.michvma.org/resource/resmgr/mvc_proceedings_2014/deporter_03.pdf

Maybe a combination of things throughout the day? I'm thinking of how insulin works, with basal and bolus. One thing to work as a basal rate given maybe twice a day and then something else given throughout the day like a bolus. I dunno. Everything in my life relates to type 1 diabetes, lol, so my mind naturally goes to how we've handled overlapping insulins to achieve control. Twenty years ago there were numerous peaks and overlaps and it was a trick to balance everything. Now they have insulins that work from 24 hours on up, except they don't for everyone and must be split. Anyway, now I'm just rambling. But maybe by keeping strict notes with specific times, etc. you can come up with a schedule of things that will carry her throughout the day. Maybe.

 

[TricAP]

I so wish I had something that would provide practical help, and I am so very sorry I do not. I've been through dementia with people I love, but not dogs. Hugs to you and beautiful Bella...I hope you find something to help ASAP. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for your support Yamizuma. Have dealt with geriatric cognitive issues both with family members and in my career I know it can be so confusing for all involved. Seems to be even more so with a pet that can't voice what they are going through.

 

[TricAP]

Okay. So we haven't heard back from Jess' professor yet, but she did remember some discussion of this in her pharmacology class. Anipryl was the first thing she mentioned, along with food rich in antioxidants. And then she sent me this article. Scroll down to about page three and there's some information there that may be helpful. We'll keep looking. http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.michvma.org/resource/resmgr/mvc_proceedings_2014/deporter_03.pdfMaybe a combination of things throughout the day? I'm thinking of how insulin works, with basal and bolus. One thing to work as a basal rate given maybe twice a day and then something else given throughout the day like a bolus. I dunno. Everything in my life relates to type 1 diabetes, lol, so my mind naturally goes to how we've handled overlapping insulins to achieve control. Twenty years ago there were numerous peaks and overlaps and it was a trick to balance everything. Now they have insulins that work from 24 hours on up, except they don't for everyone and must be split. Anyway, now I'm just rambling. But maybe by keeping strict notes with specific times, etc. you can come up with a schedule of things that will carry her throughout the day. Maybe.

Thanks so much! A very well written article!

I like your suggestions of keeping a more detailed log of what is happening with Bella. I know how valuable that can be from diagnosing my own health issues and finding something that works.

 

[dpenning]

This may sound crazy but I had a dog with high anxiety and the vet prescribed valium. I was stunned at the dose, this was a smaller dog and the dose seemed huge, way more than for a person. It seems like the dogs metabolize some things differently.

 

[TricAP]

This may sound crazy but I had a dog with high anxiety and the vet prescribed valium. I was stunned at the dose, this was a smaller dog and the dose seemed huge, way more than for a person. It seems like the dogs metabolize some things differently.

Did the Valium just calm the dog (like Ridalin with ADHD child) or did it drug them into oblivion so they didn't know what was going on?

 

[Boxergirl]

Valium was the first thing they gave me for Al. I hated it. I gave it exactly two days and stopped. He was so doped up and out of it that it kind of scared me. I actually slept on the floor by him with my hand on his side. You know - like you do when your kids are sick and you doze touching them to monitor their temp. Lol. Who knows though. Maybe it would help Bella. Who, btw, is absolutely gorgeous. I forgot to say that.

 

[dpenning]

Did the Valium just calm the dog (like Ridalin with ADHD child) or did it drug them into oblivion so they didn't know what was going on?

It just took the edge off his behavior, it didn't knock him out. Again, the dose was what I didn't understand, it was like 4 times what a human dose would be, according to drugs.com. Maybe it just needed to be cut back a bit if it totally knocked out your dog.

I am NOT a clinician in the human OR animal world so your mileage may vary.


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[TricAP]

It just took the edge off his behavior, it didn't knock him out. Again, the dose was what I didn't understand, it was like 4 times what a human dose would be, according to drugs.com. Maybe it just needed to be cut back a bit if it totally knocked out your dog.I am NOT a clinician in the human OR animal world so your mileage may vary.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Love the line about mileage may vary! I'll bring it up with our vet - who I saw at the grocery store last night with her mother (who has dementia.) She asked how Bella was doing and I said we'd be coming back in for another visit. She said she'd do some more research before then. Small towns are wonderful sometimes.

 

[TricAP]

Valium was the first thing they gave me for Al. I hated it. I gave it exactly two days and stopped. He was so doped up and out of it that it kind of scared me. I actually slept on the floor by him with my hand on his side. You know - like you do when your kids are sick and you doze touching them to monitor their temp. Lol. Who knows though. Maybe it would help Bella. Who, btw, is absolutely gorgeous. I forgot to say that.

Bella says thanks Kris!

Did you try antidepressants on any of your boxers? I came across this article (lengthy but a very good one of one dogs battle with anxiety - not age related.)

DogAware.com Articles: Chill Pills -- Anxiety Medications for Dogs

 

[Boxergirl]

I have that exact article bookmarked. Al was on Fluoxetine and Alprazolam (Prozac and Xanax) for quite a while. I took him off because they took away his happy. You know that boxers are just the happiest dogs. He became so dull that, to me, it became a quality of life issue. He was just existing. I give him L-Theanine instead and find it helps as much as the Fluoxetine did without the negative side effects. That's not to say it helps a lot, because it doesn't. But it helps some. His issues are different than Bella's though. Also, the L-Theanine is cumulative and takes at least a month to start working so you have to give it plenty of time.

Totally not on topic, but you may find it interesting. My daughter mentioned a remark I'd made to one of her teachers who then referred us to someone new. The remark was that to Al, no matter how many times you do something it's always new. Everything is always new. It's exhausting. Hyperkinesis with generalized anxiety was suggested, basically an anxiety disorder with ADHD tacked on. And as much as I want to poo-poo it, it really fits him. There are some articles out there about it and he definitely fits the description of Hyperkinesis rather than just hyperactive. They want to try giving him a stimulant to see if it helps. Ritalin. I'm kind of not okay with that and doing my own research on what natural alternatives I can try. I truly wish it were a lack of leadership, or lack of rules and boundaries, a lack of training. I wish it were something *I* did, or didn't do, because then I could fix it. Anyway, I thought you might find it interesting that they want to give him Ritalin. I didn't even know they gave that to dogs. Poor Al. He's just a chemically imbalanced mess. Good thing he's handsome and sweet!

 

[TricAP]

I have yet to meet a boxer that isn't sweet - no matter what they have been through. Show them the least kindness and they repay it a million times over. We say that once someone starts to pet Bella they have a new full time job - she loves everyone! Al is so lucky to have found his way to you. I agree a boxer without their happy isn't living the life they are meant to. Such goofy, happy high energy dogs! Which what I thinks makes it much harder when they so start to have issues.

As far as Ritalin goes I have seen it make a huge difference in some kids. Made all the difference in the world for the best friend of one of our sons. He went from being a horribly disruptive out of control child to now a college graduate and in law school. I agree on not wanting to over medicate but if other things aren't working it might be worth a try to give Al a boxer quality of life.