Advice Needed! Fear Stage Or Something Bigger?

[Dawn_B]

Hi all! I'm looking for advice about Vito and I hope you can help point me in the right direction.

Vito is a 10 month old CC. Personality wise he is a bit of a goofball and is super eager to please. We are midway through advanced obedience at PetSmart and he is doing pretty good. Distractions are difficult with him, but I've chalked it up to his stubborn teenage stage and we've been working through it. He is easygoing in the house, follows all the rules, is AMAZING with our kids and great with strangers coming to the door, whether he is in or out of his crate, as long as one of us is present. I am home with him and the kids all day so he gets lots of people time and attention and as much outdoor time as his velcro-dog self can handle.
When my husband gets home from work I take Vito to the off leash park for an hour or two to romp with his friends. We have been going at least once a day since he was 4 months old and he has a great time. He is fantastic with other dogs no matter their size or sex and LOVES to get attention from "the regular" pet parents who are there. I know we have to be careful about dog parks and that a lot of people here don't like them but I feel like we struck gold with ours. We have an amazing group of dogs that show up every evening and overall all of the people are solid and responsible dog owners.
Now while he is never shy around a new dog, when new people are around he is choosy with who he will approach. It is pretty normal for him to move around a new person in a semi-circle and keep his eyes on them, if that makes sense? He sometimes will move his nose towards them super cautiously but if they move too fast he will take off running like he just saw the horsemen of the apocalypse. When he does this I tell him in an even and calm voice that they are friends. I'll stand beside the person he is avoiding and either shake hands with them or start talking happily and calmly and it seemed to have been working. He naturally prefers women to men, but typically after a few minutes pass he will snuggle up with just about anyone. Haha.

So the point of this post is that lately I have noticed a shift in his behaviour. Vito has become very aware of when things are new or different and is quite vocal about his opinion. For example, yesterday we were walking and came across three nice folks who were sitting on the grass at the dog park and Vito lost his mind! He braced himself solid and big boy barked directly at them as if to say "WHY ARE YOU SITTING ON THE GRASS? SIT AT THE PICNIC TABLES!" and it was very hard to get him to come to me. Once I got up to him and did my whole "they are friends" thing he did calm down and eventually he approached them happily, but it took two full laps of the dog park and about 15 minutes of standing in their vicinity before he trotted over to them to say hi nicely.
Today he did a similar thing FOUR times in the hour and a half we were there. Once at a stroller, once at a homeless lady, once at a group of big guys wearing black shirts and once at a guy who was carrying bags of food from a picnic site in the park.

The first two times the people were moving and obviously terrified so I couldn't do my normal "they are friends" thing. I just calmly gave him his command to come with me and he listened. The third time the guys were pretty good with it, but Vito was doing the big boy bark and running away from them which made me think he was more scared then guarding. The last time I tried something new and it seemed to work okay. I knew he was going to loose his shit on the guy with the bags when we saw him the second time so I put him in a sit-stay and did a focus. He failed at the focus and kept his eyes on the guy as he approached us, but he was able to walk by without Vito barking once. I gave Vito heavy praise and he seemed pretty content with himself.

I guess I'm looking for opinions on what we should do next. Is this a fear stage? Guarding? BOTH? If this is something I can help him work through, how should I start?
I hate the thought of everything scaring him like that and I hope that this is just a phase. Because if it's not we might have to think about either keeping him out of the dog park or putting some sort of muzzle on him so he doesn't scare the shit out of everyone. I thought that homeless lady was going to have a heart attack! Poor thing!

Oh, and for what it's worth I took a video a few weeks ago of him losing his mind over a plastic bag blowing in the wind at the dog park. He was barking and chasing it away like a doofus. If you want to see his body language I can probably find a way to lift it from my phone.

Thanks so much guys! I really appreciate the help!

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

Hi...sounds to me like fear stage and maybe a step up on his different people and places socialization is required? More time out meeting different people at different places. People of all colours, shapes and sizes. Young, old, black, white, babies in push chairs, men with beards etc. Lots of praise, lots of reward, lots of fun. Im sure you already know all this though.

 

[musicdeb]

I would suggest no more off leash or dog park scenarios until he has passed this fear stage. Continue to expose him to the things he's afraid of but know his strike zone. Strike zone meaning the distance he nears the object/person that he starts to bark, cower or growl. While exposing him and he gets close to his strike zone, bring him closer. Bring him to sit and reward. Then move closer and again sit and reward. Continue until he gets closer and closer. If he gets extremely afraid and may harm himself or the object, move it back and try again after he has calmed down. Do not reward the fear behavior but coddling the pup, rewarding the behavior tells the dog it's ok.

Keep us posted.

 

[Dawn_B]

Thanks a ton, guys.

I think you're onto something and it makes sense to stay out of the dog park for a bit and spend some time in new situations.

I guess my next question is how long do these fear stages typically last? Is there an average time we should be seeing some improvement?
Oh and MusicDeb thanks for the strike zone advice. We'll work on that and see how it goes!

Thanks again! I will keep you posted.

 

[musicdeb]

Fear stage usually lasts until about a year or so, he will hit his true temperament at about age 2-3.

 

[LizB]

Great advice. Basically you're exposing him to the things he may be afraid of, but being right there to guide him on how you expect him to respond. This will strengthen his trust of you as well as provide him with practice dealing with new situations. The more controlled exposure to people and things (strollers, big hats, wheelchairs, bikes, etc.) the better.

One of my BMs went through the same thing, and I thought I had it licked until there was a tall stack of newspapers on the ground to be used as a weed block in a flower bed, and the wind blew up the top section as we walked by. You'd have thought it was the Bogey Man himself leaping out to eat my boy for lunch! We won't even talk about balloons.....

 

[musicdeb]

You'd have thought it was the Bogey Man himself leaping out to eat my boy for lunch! We won't even talk about balloons.....

hahahahahahaha Poor little guy...

 

[LizB]

We never let him forget it, lol, those scary newspapers. He soon grew out of that stage and everything and everyone was scared of HIM thereafter, bless his giant ugly self!

 

[CeeCee]

Good Lord the balloons! I think the dogs know something we don't.

 

[Dawn_B]

Hey all!
Thanks again for all of the advice.

Thought I would give you a bit of an update as well as get your opinion again. I just got back from a good long walk with the boy and he did really well! We played ball for a few minutes in the back yard first to get some of his "zoomies" out before I stuffed my pockets with treats and headed on a route I know but he doesn't. I chose a route that started with the sidewalk quite a ways from the road but with lots of pedestrian traffic. Every time someone approached us I brought Vito onto the huge greenspace beside the sidewalk to keep distance between him and people. We kept walking, and he never batted an eye! Every time someone passed us and he was calm he got a big ol' GOOD BOY!! from me and a treat and I think it worked really well!
As we got further along our route the sidewalk became closer to the road and we had more foot traffic. Plus buses and motor bikes and screaming kids. He did awesome. He got a little flinchy when an exceptionally loud bike passed us but I chalked that up to normal. As was mentioned before by MusicDeb I do not do the whole "oh it's okay, it's okay mommy's little baby waby is a scaredy pantses!" thing to him, but rewarded him when he was calm instead.
Because we no longer had the massive greenspace to walk on on the last street before ours I got him off the sidewalk and put him in a sit-wait when people passed. The dog never looked twice at anyone! Honest to Dog he was just awesome with everyone and everything.

So that leads me to where I would like your opinion.

Does it sound like his issues are mostly related to the dog park? Not necessarily the dog park itself but maybe being off-leash allows for too much shenanigans for him at this stage? Is that even a possibility?

Either way we will keep doing these walks together as they were a good bonding time for us.

THANK YOU all so much. Man, I don't know what I would do without your excellent collective advice.

 

[musicdeb]

Good to hear that Vito is doing very well getting to know the world.

Vito is in the fear stage and he will be afraid of objects/people. I believe the reason he did so well is that you had control of the situation. Because of your confidence and control of the situation, he reacted to that confidence and control meaning he did not react to the stimuli of people/objects.

Continue to do what you are doing on walks and he will walk right through the fear stage. I would continue to avoid dog parks.

Great job to both of you!

 

[Dogdragoness]

What causes a dog to hit the fear stage, I have never had a mastiff in fear stage, but I have had large breed puppies go through this & although I know how to handle it, I have always wondered what goes on in the dogs mind that causes it.

 

[Smart_Family]

What causes a dog to hit the fear stage, I have never had a mastiff in fear stage, but I have had large breed puppies go through this & although I know how to handle it, I have always wondered what goes on in the dogs mind that causes it.

Age usually. There's one around 12 weeks or so and another between 7 months and a year or so.

 

[erevos]

Bella is in that stage too!! It was hard for us cause we adopted her in this stage but seems to get better every day. Its good to read that this thing will leave as she grows up ray:

 

[Beretta]

I just wanted to add, when it comes to the dog park, if there will be any issues, you usually don't see it until closer to maturity. Between 1-3. Keep an eye out. He's still a puppy and will most likely be submissive to others for a little while longer. But once he matures, he may change.

 

[musicdeb]

So true, Beretta. Mastiff pups can be very "lab" like until they start to come into their own temperament which is about 1-3 yrs olds and they may no longer tolerate other dogs. Meaning, other dogs who try to dominate them or charge them to play. Be aware of the change around 1-3 yrs.

 

[Cody]

It sounds like a fear stage, keep working with him and he should get over it. BUT remember as well that he is a Corso and immediately being friends with strangers is not what they are about. I am not saying he should fear them, but do not expect him to run up to them because they call him over and want to pet him. Aurora, for example, will sit at my side if I am talking to someone and ignore them completely. If they are friends however she is all over them. As for dog parks, a proper CC shouldn't start anything but they will finish if pushed. There is one I go to because I have to cross through it to get to where I want to walk in the mountains, but I am very aware of my dogs while there. Neither of mine pay attention to other dogs, they ignore, but I know they will not back down.

 

[Dawn_B]

Thanks for the tips and reassurances, everyone!

I thought I would swing by with an update.

We are still doing our regular walks and getting Vito used to passing strange people on the sidewalk. He has come a long way! We are now back to taking him to the dog park but we worked our way up to this point. First we did a few quick trips to the park on his 4' leash because he was so much more confident on leash. Then we worked to his 20' training leash, and now he seems to be back to his old self and he is allowed off leash now. We have had tons of new types of people pass by with no issues... strangers on bikes, people wearing hats, drunks, and umbrellas, all with no bark-fests. He still comes across as being fearful with some strangers rather than the more desirable aloof behaviour I was hoping for in a corso. But then again he is still a young guy and hopefully he will come around with more work on our end. He will be turning 1 on the 29th of this month, so still a lot of puppy shenanigans left to work through.
He has graduated the petsmart advance obedience course already but we are going to take it again in hopes it will help boost his confidence even more, and I may contact another trainer too to see if there is anything else I could be doing for him.

Here are a few pictures of the boy in his 11th month. The first one was today when he was waiting for me to throw the ball for him. His little lips tucked in make him look a bit like grumpy cat. Haha.
The second picture is him sitting calmly at the playground yesterday while my three sons played. He watched them like a hawk, but was really great about all of the other activity going on in the area.



I also wanted to let you guys know that I am a huge fan of how much you advocate for these dogs. You are all great at telling owners what to expect, and you say it in such a way that doesn't make anyone feel stupid for not knowing. I started bringing Vito to the dog park knowing that it would probably only be until he started to show his adult temperament, but I learned that here when we first brought him home.
Thanks for being such a valuable resource!