Dogs in training. DO NOT PET!

[Smokeycat]

Glad they ask you. Too bad they don't ask about Jiggers. That's what I mean, people act like dogs are community property. It's rude.

I like that they ask but I don't like why most of them ask. Most people assume he's mean simply because he's big and black. Big and fluffy tends to be the opposite. My parents friend owns a 140 lbs king malamute that people just flock to. Thankfully he loves attention because his owner just soaks it up by proxy. I've had to stop kids from touching him without asking while she just watched. Sometines dog owners are just as bad.

 

[April Nicole]

Welcome.
A good Rottweiler is very similar on a basic level to a good Cane Corso. They are just as capable at guardian work. On a whole they seem to excell at personal protection work. However, its easier to find a good well bred working Rottweiler than a Cane Corso. Just do to how popular Rotts were.
Some of the differences I noticed with my dogs
- My Cane Corsos are bigger. Taller and usually weight wise.
- I would say the Cane Corso has the stronger neck and body. Rottweilers were a lot easier to control. You sometimes need specialty tools for large Corsos. I never used or thought of using a prong collar until I handled a Corso.
- On the average I would say Rottweilers have the stronger bite. In fact a lot of decoy people say this as well. Despite all that generic bite force stuff you read online many people say on average a good Rott still has the hardest feeling bite through the sleeve.
-Rotts are more independent. A Rott is comfortable just in the same room as you or will seek some space from time to time. A Cane Corso wants to be like your shadow even if you just change seats in the same room.
- Corsos definitely have more personality and human like expressions for their emotions. A lot of people confuse this with intelligence. But i think its different.
- Rottweilers do better in outside conditions than Corsos.
-Rottweilers are less maintenance even though they have a longer coat.
- Rottweilers eat more and have better appetites. I have no idea how my Corsos get so big because they eat like super models. Diet for a Corso can be challenging and frustrated.
-Cane Corsos seem to be more stubborn and playfully challenging. They never lose that puppy type attitude about them. Rotts seem to mature faster.
-Rotts have a longer life expectancy
- My Corsos are more hyper not as laid back.
-Corsos will rome less when loose
-Corsos have a higher prey drive
-Rotts seem to welp their pups better on average.

-Guard dog wise they are pretty equal very very similar inside the house on guard duty. However, my first male Cane Corso was probably the best natural guard dog I have seen. However, it was a Rottweiler my father had that was probably the best trained guard dog I have ever seen. Just what I noticed from my lines and dogs. I would recommend owning a Rottweiler first before a Corso. Corso is more challenging.

Very nice comparison!

 

[Justin B.]

Very nice comparison!

Thanks.
I wonder how many people would agree with those statements because a lot of Cane Corso owners had Rottweilers first.

 

[CeeCee]

God save our dogs from dog lovers! And I have to say that lovers of a particular breed are the worst!!! (Now don't get me wrong, there have absolutely been times where I need to hold myself back from wanting to love and kiss on a squishy face Mastiff, but I do try. )

Two and a half years later I am still working on Pruie sitting and watching me before being released to meet a new person. I tell people that I am training her and if they can wait a minute, I will let her go meet them. This apparently translate to, "Suuure, come on over and pet my dog." ARGH!!!

Now for Zeek, who was very fearful of new people and situations when I first adopted him, I bought a vest that said, "Dog In Training Give Me Space." This was a HUGE help!! People gave us space and some even asked what they could do to help me train him. From there, they were very willing to listen to me and do as I asked.

Congratulations on the new puppy!!!

 

[April Nicole]

God save our dogs from dog lovers! And I have to say that lovers of a particular breed are the worst!!! (Now don't get me wrong, there have absolutely been times where I need to hold myself back from wanting to love and kiss on a squishy face Mastiff, but I do try. )

Two and a half years later I am still working on Pruie sitting and watching me before being released to meet a new person. I tell people that I am training her and if they can wait a minute, I will let her go meet them. This apparently translate to, "Suuure, come on over and pet my dog." ARGH!!!

Now for Zeek, who was very fearful of new people and situations when I first adopted him, I bought a vest that said, "Dog In Training Give Me Space." This was a HUGE help!! People gave us space and some even asked what they could do to help me train him. From there, they were very willing to listen to me and do as I asked.

Congratulations on the new puppy!!!

Thanks Cee Cee, your right it is hard to resist a mastiff!!...I'm definitely going to get a bandana, vest, collar, or something that says he's in training. I didn't have one for the E.M we had, and people approached him constantly. When my husband had him, ( he has that don't even think about it look) , so people didn't approach him as much. But apparently I look like a push over, so I got approached a lot. It's encouraging that the vest works so well for you!! You give me hope

 

[Steven C]

Thanks.
I wonder how many people would agree with those statements because a lot of Cane Corso owners had Rottweilers first.

I don't know enough about Rotties to add. I do know they are the police dog of choice in Colombia, everywhere you look there is a military police with a Rottweiler and usually a big muzzle. I would like some clarification for me though. Wouldn't a huge difference between a Rottweiler and a Cane Corso be that the Cane Corso come out of the womb as guardians and need zero training to do so, where a Rottweiler must have guard and protection training like a GSD or Doberman or any other working line besides Molloser Guardian lines?

I see you wrote trained Rottweiler but wanted to clarify.

 

[Justin B.]

I don't know enough about Rotties to add. I do know they are the police dog of choice in Colombia, everywhere you look there is a military police with a Rottweiler and usually a big muzzle. I would like some clarification for me though. Wouldn't a huge difference between a Rottweiler and a Cane Corso be that the Cane Corso come out of the womb as guardians and need zero training to do so, where a Rottweiler must have guard and protection training like a GSD or Doberman or any other working line besides Molloser Guardian lines?

I see you wrote trained Rottweiler but wanted to clarify.

Most good working class Rottweilers and Dobermans are natural guardians as well. Especially imports that have not been watered down by American breeding practices. In fact they were the preferred guard dog here in the US for a while. What people say about the Cane Corso now is the same montra people used for Rotts in the 1980s and 1990s...Up until Pitbulls became the next fad dogs.

The Rottweiler I mentioned had Shutzhund titles at the time so thats why I say trained. To this day I know 2 professional dog trainers that still say he was the best dog they ever saw. Trainers use to come and buy entire litters from this dog.

They were used on US police force but they fell out of favor supposedly due to liability reasons. They seemed to cause way more damage to suspects supposedly.

 

[Steven C]

Most good working class Rottweilers and Dobermans are natural guardians as well. Especially imports that have not been watered down by American breeding practices. In fact they were the preferred guard dog here in the US for a while. What people say about the Cane Corso now is the same montra people used for Rotts in the 1980s and 1990s...Up until Pitbulls became the next fad dogs.

The Rottweiler I mentioned had Shutzhund titles at the time so thats why I say trained. To this day I know 2 professional dog trainers that still say he was the best dog they ever saw. Trainers use to come and buy entire litters from this dog.

They were used on US police force but they fell out of favor supposedly due to liability reasons. They seemed to cause way more damage to suspects supposedly.

Interesting as I was under the impression that the only dogs that had natural guarding ability with no training were Molloser breeds. Thinking about an imported working line I know first hand they are a handful and that would probably include some guarding instincts.

Question unrelated to the topic: What do breeders do with puppies they don't sell? In the last decade as the west falls more 3rd world and people have less disposable income, I noticed that most high end breeders always have a puppy or 2 left. It is why my DDB breeder sold the last of his breeding dogs.

 

[Justin B.]

Interesting as I was under the impression that the only dogs that had natural guarding ability with no training were Molloser breeds. Thinking about an imported working line I know first hand they are a handful and that would probably include some guarding instincts.

Question unrelated to the topic: What do breeders do with puppies they don't sell? In the last decade as the west falls more 3rd world and people have less disposable income, I noticed that most high end breeders always have a puppy or 2 left. It is why my DDB breeder sold the last of his breeding dogs.

I dont agree with that. That is called breed mythology. Its far from true. I even saw a wolf dog that was a tenacious guard dog.
All of these breeds are so far removed and manipulated from the original dogs they came from it doesn't make sense to look at the old outdated generic info. Especially since we even know there are an abundance of pet temperament water down lines even in guardian molleser breeds.
Best to judge individual dogs and lines on their own merit.

If breeders don't sell a pup they may try to place it in a good home and work a deal on the papers. Or they simply "get stuck with them."

 

[glen]

I had rotties for 25 years, the first was a bitch she gaurded my children when they were young, no one wouldve got near, the last male we had was the best gaurd dog we ever owned, no training was needed, we only changed to cc when rotties were being bred by everyone and they got very much a status dog, thry got into wrong hands and got a very bad reputation, rotties will always be close to my heaty, my sons got one now.

 

[Justin B.]

I had rotties for 25 years, the first was a bitch she gaurded my children when they were young, no one wouldve got near, the last male we had was the best gaurd dog we ever owned, no training was needed, we only changed to cc when rotties were being bred by everyone and they got very much a status dog, thry got into wrong hands and got a very bad reputation, rotties will always be close to my heaty, my sons got one now.

How would you compare the 2 breeds from the ones you have owned?

 

[glen]

How would you compare the 2 breeds from the ones you have owned?

The rotties we owned were very different to the ones i know of today, they were challenging to train,they were more gaurding and certainly no lap dog, ours were from germany, we trained them for every situation we could think of and gave them a purpose to live, otherwise they would be out of control. Now the rotties seem to be more mellow, like labs.
To compare what i had to the ccs iv got, my 3 ccs are high driven males, we trained them the same as we did the rotties, i found it strange when our eldest cc had a fear stage, something our rotties never had, but we soon worked through it, both breeds like to challenge iv had a stubborn rottie that would grumble doing as he was told and iv had it with the cc. Some owners say there hard to train i say its intense to train them, both breeds for us are aloof with strangers which i havent got a problem with, my dogs ignore people when we are out unless they are a threat if someone approaches and asks about the breed they will sit by my side they dont reactbut there not a roll over and tickle my belly dog my rotties werent there not comfortable with that.i do find the cc think before they act where as the rottie would sometimes react before thinking. So i prefer the cc for this.
I could go on and on so il stop lol the ccs i own are similar to my rotties, they are loyal they gaurd they are brilliant with family, dont like strangers, they wont allow anyone on property if we are not here theyve chased off an intruder when iv been here. I love the breed.
But i know of some ccs and rotties now that are like yorkshire terriors, nothing like the breeds should be.

 

[Boxergirl]

I totally get where you are coming from @April Nicole.
I got annoyed by this too for the longest.
But i honestly think people just genuinely dont know.
Most people have no idea. Most pet owners are not what I would consider dog world people.
Their experience with dogs consists of suburban friendly house pets. Or dogs that are socialized to the max.
They have never experienced or been around different.

Not to mention how there are a lot of people who abuse the service dog and support dog privileges.

I dont think they know that you are not supposed to bother a service dog or even a dog in training.
And I dont blame them for that.

I think people would be better served if there were actual "do not pet" signs on the collars or harness.
Would cause a lot less confusion. If that is the main objective.

I'm late here, had a few things going on. Justin B. - I get what you're saying, but I don't think ignorance is any excuse, unless it's a child or a special circumstance and even then there needs to be education happening. I don't know any SD owners, or owners of reactive dogs, who rely on patches alone and most patches include a "do not pet" warning. Most handlers are very aware of their surroundings and are quick to be vocal when they see people coming toward their dog. Politely vocal until they need to be otherwise. It's rudeness that makes people disregard a direct request to keep their distance. This is my opinion. My strong opinion. Lol.

My practical tips that don't necessarily apply to a puppy, but with being approached in general ...

Be hyper-aware of your surroundings and be prepared to be vocal. I do not let just anyone or any dog meet my pups/dogs. Socialization is not about having them meet everyone. It's about exposing them to all kinds of people, noises, textures, vehicles, etc. in a controlled manner where they remain in their comfort zone. Socialization should be as positive and pleasant as it can be. I don't want my pups to be social butterflies. I want them to be exposed to as many things as possible so that they don't really care about them. This absolutely includes other people and other dogs. I want them to ignore them and focus on me.

For my anxious boy, we have utilized the park, parking lots, and even dog parks pretty heavily. I do not allow anyone to approach him. He does have a leash that says do not pet. I work him at a distance and place us where we are less likely to be approached from behind. I do have signs that I set up that say "Fearful dog in training. Please ignore." It works pretty well, but you do still have to be prepared to be vocal (in a calm manner that won't trigger your dog) and to move off quickly if necessary. I've also taught him a default move behind me and back between my legs if either he's uncomfortable, I signal him, or my hand goes up in a warding off gesture. As for the dog parks, we never enter but work at a distance. They can be very good for distraction work.

When approached by off leash dogs, I have several suggestions. Sometimes just firmly pointing and telling them to go home works. I carry cut up hot dogs or other high value treats in my pocket. Often if a dog is approaching you can throw a handful at the dog and they'll stop to eat them. That can give you time to get away. I carry Spray Shield with me, just in case. Some people desensitize their dogs to opening an umbrella and use that as a tool to startle and stop an oncoming dog. It's very abrupt and startling, so it's imperative that you work with your own dog so they don't get scared. I don't use the umbrella trick, but I've know people who do. I've also carried a walking stick. The treat trick works more often than you'd think and is always worth a try. Just make sure to teach your own dog a solid leave it for anything that falls to the ground.

 

[Justin B.]

I'm late here, had a few things going on. Justin B. - I get what you're saying, but I don't think ignorance is any excuse, unless it's a child or a special circumstance and even then there needs to be education happening. I don't know any SD owners, or owners of reactive dogs, who rely on patches alone and most patches include a "do not pet" warning. Most handlers are very aware of their surroundings and are quick to be vocal when they see people coming toward their dog. Politely vocal until they need to be otherwise. It's rudeness that makes people disregard a direct request to keep their distance. This is my opinion. My strong opinion. Lol.

My practical tips that don't necessarily apply to a puppy, but with being approached in general ...

Be hyper-aware of your surroundings and be prepared to be vocal. I do not let just anyone or any dog meet my pups/dogs. Socialization is not about having them meet everyone. It's about exposing them to all kinds of people, noises, textures, vehicles, etc. in a controlled manner where they remain in their comfort zone. Socialization should be as positive and pleasant as it can be. I don't want my pups to be social butterflies. I want them to be exposed to as many things as possible so that they don't really care about them. This absolutely includes other people and other dogs. I want them to ignore them and focus on me.

For my anxious boy, we have utilized the park, parking lots, and even dog parks pretty heavily. I do not allow anyone to approach him. He does have a leash that says do not pet. I work him at a distance and place us where we are less likely to be approached from behind. I do have signs that I set up that say "Fearful dog in training. Please ignore." It works pretty well, but you do still have to be prepared to be vocal (in a calm manner that won't trigger your dog) and to move off quickly if necessary. I've also taught him a default move behind me and back between my legs if either he's uncomfortable, I signal him, or my hand goes up in a warding off gesture. As for the dog parks, we never enter but work at a distance. They can be very good for distraction work.

When approached by off leash dogs, I have several suggestions. Sometimes just firmly pointing and telling them to go home works. I carry cut up hot dogs or other high value treats in my pocket. Often if a dog is approaching you can throw a handful at the dog and they'll stop to eat them. That can give you time to get away. I carry Spray Shield with me, just in case. Some people desensitize their dogs to opening an umbrella and use that as a tool to startle and stop an oncoming dog. It's very abrupt and startling, so it's imperative that you work with your own dog so they don't get scared. I don't use the umbrella trick, but I've know people who do. I've also carried a walking stick. The treat trick works more often than you'd think and is always worth a try. Just make sure to teach your own dog a solid leave it for anything that falls to the ground.

Better late than never. Especially since you probably seem to have the most experience with this.

I ask myself this
"Where would somebody go or receive education on this topic?"
Truth is unless they seek it out its not something that is common knowledge.
So I personally cant hold people responsible for that.

Also, I am sure you are probably more aware of this than I am since you study training methods a lot....How many basic genric training programs teach people that they should socialize their dogs as much as possible and stress anybody and everybody should be able to pet your dog? You touched on this too. I think thats the norm for society right now. Even though I personally disagree with it strongly.

Real genuine Service dogs are not that common at least in my area.

If we have special circumstances I think sometimes the onus is on us to do the education and to try and adjust with society. As long as its not depriving you of your rights or special need. Which it sounds like you do from other post. You mentioned specific circumstances.

Somebody persisting to pet your dog. Or somebody giving you grief for having a dog in public that shouldn't be touched is different in my mind than naive people with good intentions who make the mistake of petting or trying to pet a dog that the owner doesn't want petted.

In fact I stopped going to pet stores and dog parks for this vary reason years ago. Wasn't just the health concerns. Mostly because I just didnt want to explain or look like the bad guy.

I personally agree with almost everything you said for my own philosophy on my dogs.
I just dont expect society to adjust to it anytime soon.

I just thought a more direct sign may be better than what was mentioned for the people who still wanted to take their dogs to the public but dont want to look like the bad guy or start confrontation. Especially because I am sure we have seen some of the viral videos of it going wrong.

 

[Steven C]

Be hyper-aware of your surroundings. .

I like that.

 

[April Nicole]

Love the throw the treat down suggestion boxergirl!.....

Taking notes.

 

[Boxergirl]

@Justin B - I guess I do think it's pretty common knowledge, or if not common knowledge, then it should be common sense. I know, I know. Common sense is sadly lacking in the general population. But I think that most people should know that if a dog is in a public place that doesn't typically have dogs it's more than likely to be a working dog. I'm not talking pet stores and such. I think even children know that dogs aren't usually allowed in stores and restaurants. Maybe I'm just expecting too much. I did post some links on service dog etiquette on another post that was written by a very good trainer in my state. As far as a sign, the DINOS website has t-shirts that say "Keep back. My dog needs space." It's worth every penny, imo.

http://www.mastiff-forum.com/index.php?threads/service-animal-etiquette.30943/

 

[Justin B.]

@Justin B - I guess I do think it's pretty common knowledge, or if not common knowledge, then it should be common sense. I know, I know. Common sense is sadly lacking in the general population. But I think that most people should know that if a dog is in a public place that doesn't typically have dogs it's more than likely to be a working dog. I'm not talking pet stores and such. I think even children know that dogs aren't usually allowed in stores and restaurants. Maybe I'm just expecting too much. I did post some links on service dog etiquette on another post that was written by a very good trainer in my state. As far as a sign, the DINOS website has t-shirts that say "Keep back. My dog needs space." It's worth every penny, imo.

http://www.mastiff-forum.com/index.php?threads/service-animal-etiquette.30943/

I think most people are used to petting dogs in public places. At least from what I see.

In my area there are certain parts of town and especially in trendy areas where they openly allow dogs in stores, bars , and restaurants. This has been a MAJOr shift with in the last 10 years. Also, i think people are used to being able to pet the fraudulent service dogs with the fake harnesses or collars.

 

[Boxergirl]

I think most people are used to petting dogs in public places. At least from what I see.

In my area there are certain parts of town and especially in trendy areas where they openly allow dogs in stores, bars , and restaurants. This has been a MAJOr shift with in the last 10 years. Also, i think people are used to being able to pet the fraudulent service dogs with the fake harnesses or collars.

Good points you make. Our area doesn't have places like you describe so it's not common to see dogs in restaurants or stores. As for people being allowed to pet fraudulent service dogs, that's probably true too which only makes everything more confusing. And just another reason I'd like to see stiffer penalties for misrepresentation.

 

[Justin B.]

Good points you make. Our area doesn't have places like you describe so it's not common to see dogs in restaurants or stores. As for people being allowed to pet fraudulent service dogs, that's probably true too which only makes everything more confusing. And just another reason I'd like to see stiffer penalties for misrepresentation.

What do you think would be the best way for a business to handle this or enforce this without making the person in need of a service dog feel like they are getting a hard time???
Seems like such a tricky subject.