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some guidance please on a guard dog

urso

New Member
Hello,

My family and I are considering buying a Bullmastiff as a guard dog for a house in Brazil with a large 3200m2 (about 3/4 of an acre) well-fenced yard. The weather in these parts is not overly hot - generally not more than 32 degrees Celsius and rarely lower than 10. We expect the dog to live outside and we'll be building him or her a kennel at the back of the yard.

We've also been considering a German Shepherd. For me that BM seems a better fit for my family, while we'll always have time for the dog, the BM seems a little lower-maintenance than the GS and with a presence that should still deter intruders. A Fila Braseira is also an option, however I'm reluctant to have a beast in my house that can potentially kill someone.

A few questions:

Given the size of our yard - how often do you think it will be necessary to walk the dog? Will throwing a ball or a stick suffice most of the time?

Are female dogs more attentive/alert and protective as we've heard?

My wife and I love plants and although we've yet to move to house (we hope to this month) we've been planting mainly fruit trees in the yard. I also have a raised vegetable garden. What tips do you have to prevent the dogs from destroying the plants? There is a BM breeder in our city and he has suggested putting dog poo at the base of vulnerable plants and covering it lightly with soil. This is not an option for the vegetable garden where I may need to build a fence! Any suggestions or tips please?

The dogs have a historical reputation as a guard dog that is often repeated online, but does anyone have any first-hand experience of a BM confronting an intruder? Here, bandits often enter the house when the owner is returning home or leaving the house. I expect the dog to be loose in the yard at these times - and will need to train it not to run after the car when leaving. Any thoughts?

Our local breeder suggested "defensive" training for the dog rather than attack training. Sounds wise to me. Any suggestions on this front?

Thank you.
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
IMHO, I would have nothing but a Fila in Brazil. I have no first hand knowledge of the crime there but reports on TV makes it sound pretty bad. I would want a beast that would kill to protect me.
 

Laura Lee

Well-Known Member
Here's my honest opinion…whatever breed of dog you chose should live with you and your family inside your house. What good does having a guard dog outside do for you? Perhaps some bandits would be dissuaded from entering your property by the mere presence of the dog, but there are certainly other bandits who would not. If the thugs in Brazil are as notoriously violent as reported, dogs kept outside the home can easily be dispatched so that they are no longer an impediment to the bandits' true intentions.

Furthermore, guard dogs guard the property while the occupants are away. From your post, it appears the bandits in Brazil chose to invade the home while the occupants are there. Therefore, it sounds to me like you need a personal protection dog, not a guard dog. Personal protection dogs need to go through highly rigorous and specialized training and live with the owners in their dwelling, not outside. Only some breeds have the necessary traits to become personal protection dogs. Generally speaking, Bullmastiffs typically do not make good personal protection dogs due to their stubbornness and difficulty to be trained to respond instantaneously to owner commands, which is absolutely critical. I say typically because there are always exceptions to generalizations.

My two cents...
 

urso

New Member
thanks - not sure if i agree with the dog in the house (although we may invite the dog in on occasions) - the yard isn't so much a backyard but a surrounding yard. An intruder needs to enter the yard first before entering the house and I'd prefer to stop or deter them at that stage then surprise them once they're inside. While it's possible they might shoot the dog it's not really likely they'd do that on entry, I think it would attract too much attention in a suburban street - I spoke with a local policeman some weeks ago and he said as much. Perhaps though as you say the BM is difficult to train and stubborn, a german shepherd with training might be a better idea - they seem like a lot of work though. About angelbears' comments, I don't doubt the Fila brasileiro is a great protector and they have a fearsome reputation here. While I've owned dogs before, I've never owned anything remotely powerful - I'm not sure I have the doggy experience for a creature like that. Haven't ruled them out though. Tomorrow we're going to visit a BM breeder - We'll be doing more research on the fila. From what I understand about them, they're not really trainable, they just are what they are.
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Fila's are very trainable and are great FAMILY pets. What you can't train out of them is their hatred of strangers. If you have people over you would always have to make sure that your dog is securely put away. Otherwise, they are like any other dog.

I do agree that to get the most out of your dog they should live in the house with you. The bond between you and your dog is so much better when they are with their people. BTW, there are other ways to get rid of a dog then shooting them. Two ways that I personally know has happened is to poison them and another friend had 2 trained GSD's killed by bow and arrow and their house was gutted of most everything they had. If the dogs had been inside more than likely they would not have even tried to get in.
 

Laura Lee

Well-Known Member
If you are going to keep the dog outside, be sure to train it to not accept food from anyone other than family members. Because, as angelbears stated, one of the simplest ways to incapacitate a dog is to toss a piece of poisoned or drug-laced meat over the fence. If the dog you chose has a high food drive, it will take some work to get it not to accept food from others.
 

cayeesmom

Well-Known Member
I would put up signs saying "Beware, property patrolled by Fila" regardless of what breed you get. No one knows that you don't have one! It might make the bad guys think twice before they try to break in. .
 

urso

New Member
Sorry to hear about the German Shepherds. Yes - some anti-bait training is a good idea - as is the beware of the dog sign - although the front of the property allows people to see in and potentially see the dog. Didn't get to see visit the Bullmastiff breeder today - will do that next week - but the fila is gaining some points with the family. I spoke with a gardener today who said that the fila is one of the few breeds he knows that doesn't eat plants. I don't know how that matches with the experience of people on this forum, but that's a big plus with me. If we choose a fila - it'll definitely stay outside - but this is not such a bad thing here - the climate is warm and when we're home - we spend a lot of time outside too - all through the year so the dog shouldn't be short of company.
 

JayHT

Active Member
Most Mastiffs build the bond with their owners by staying in the house. This forms an unbreakable bond that usually results in a dog who is willing to put its life on the line for their master. If that is not your case, I would get a Fila. They do not need the companionship to be great guard dogs. And have better natural instincts than a bullmastiff.


PS-Watch out for mangoworms.
 

urso

New Member
The Fila is without doubt an excellent if not the best choice for a guard dog. There's one in the house behind ours and it's quite an experience to walk along the footpath next to that house. Despite the risks of assault here and despite the fact filas are devoted to their family, we're just not sure we want to live with something that could kill someone accidentally, or live with something that causes that degree of intimidation to passers by and to visitors. Not everyone is a criminal, and further, we have friends and family and don't want to live in what might appear to be a high-security compound. This is our feeling at the moment. As people say, one has to put one's faith in God. To certain extent this is wise i think. We haven't yet ruled out the fila and haven't yet visited a breeder which we intend to do.

We visited a bullmastiff breeder yesterday. We met four female BMs, two that were keeping guard as we arrived, one adult male, a little overweight apparently at 70Kg, but an impressive creature - and an 8-month old male. They left us with a good impression - a thief would definitely think twice about entering - though we felt comfortable enough as visitors in the presence of the dogs and owner (he released only one dog at any one time).

What a number of people have suggested, including the BM breeder and the agent for the company that is installing security cameras and alarm in our house, is that we have a large dog such as the BM and a small dog that's fast and alert. The BM breeder suggested a Brazilian Terrier - by all accounts a devoted little dog with a mistrust of strangers. Little dogs also act to spur on their larger kennel-mates and a terrier should help dispatch any rats or mice. Two dogs also help to cover a large property. We're thinking about this idea.

Not sure that Brazil has mangoworms - not in this region anyway. There is canine leishmaniasis though and dogs need to wear a protective colar that's changed every few months. There are other vaccinations for rabies and other diseases - the level of vet care here is good.

Thanks again for the responses. I'll report back once we manage to visit a Fila breeder.
 

Dale

Well-Known Member
What about a boerboel ? To me that seems to be a little more of what you seem to want. Good family dogs but I am not just jumping into a yard with one. Probably a little better as far as dealing with the heat also. I really don't have any experience with that breed myself but have read a lot about them and am a fan of that breed. For me I am an english mastiff guy because they provide way more security than I need but for sure not a dog to be left outside and not around thier family. They may not be for you but I figured I would add my 2 cents . Just something to consider.
 

babyjoemurphy

Well-Known Member
Oh good Lord, that is so sad. How did they get that bad?
How long does it take to get that many and how do you know if you get them all
Oh my
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Oh good Lord, that is so sad. How did they get that bad?
How long does it take to get that many and how do you know if you get them all
Oh my

The flies just lay eggs on them because the dogs stay outside and they are in Africa. You just squeeze them out and I have no idea how to tell if you've gotten them all out. This isn't even the worse mangoworm video lol.
 

Gaff

Active Member
Bom dia!


I live in country lying across the equator too, with the same home setting as you described. We have plants, and a fence which lets people see through our lawn. Plus, we have about 20 fighting cocks and chickens scattered across our lawn, some tied, some free.

Our BM is doing a perfect job protecting not only our home but also our other animals. We trained her not to touch the plants since she was a kid by just stopping her. And also with other animals on our lawn. It was very easy and she got it very quickly. She lives outside but we make sure she spends some time with us inside the house every other day. While she gets excited and trample stuff sometimes, she is ver y intelligent to know what is right. We haven't really had formal training on how to handle BMs and she gets terribly excited sometimes but we get it that as long as we get her experience what she's curious about, then she won't have the urge of doing something messy or in the lawn next time.

Strangers just don't work with her. She doesn't back with people outside the gate, but when they do get in, everyone in the neighborhood knows our security has been breeched by how majestic her barks are.

She doesn't bite though. She gnarls, and tries to come at people but she hasn't had any kills yet. No one has ever tried to walk pass our gate without someone from our household ushering them inside. It just doesn't work for her.

I am satisfied with our own biologic security system and yes we didn't have trouble training her to do her job properly. She had little training and we're satisfied with how she protects us. And we didn't teach her not to eat when we're not the one giving her food, she just doesn't eat when she's not with her people. It came out natural.

I don't believe that guard training or personal training churvaness is strictly necessary for a BM to be able to protect a territory. It comes out naturally, and as long as you give her the affection due for an animal protecting your family then she'll give it back to you.
 

Gaff

Active Member
I show you.

[video=youtube;cZ472bilAkE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ472bilAkE[/video]


I kinda feel like wanting to do the pressing and extracting the worms myself too while also feeling gross. I'm happy to see the dog treated too!