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Why I'll never own a Fila

slim12

Well-Known Member
I lean to the negative sides of this topic. Finding good filas is a hard task mostly because there are so many more bad ones than good ones. The ratio if put into numbers would be astounding. It is bad enough the number of good dogs are dwindling but then the two major players (CAFIB and non-CAFIB) discount the others efforts.
The issue for me is that the Fila is suppose to be a working dog, or at least it was originally bred to be a working dog. Like most working dogs of yesteryear their jobs have expired. For the shephards and malinois types their working instincts/abilities/drives were transferred from herders to service/working/sport dogs. The Fila was not. The 'territorial/protective' trait was bred for, and then, and more abundantly, the appearance was bred for. So the dog that once worked the farm is basically no more. They have been bred for appearance and not sound working nerve and the result is a weak nerved and defensively driven dog. The show ring has done this to a lot of breeds, not just the Fila. A Beagle won Westminster a few years ago and I doubt that dog has ever seen a briar bush or had his ears scuffed up.
With that bit of negativity out of the way, the best way to get a good dog is visit the kennel. Call them, talk to them and visit them. Go to the shows where they go. And work your way in from there. The good ones will answer the hard questions and will not duck and dodge. Q: Do you X-ray/OFA/PennHipp? A: No. Response: Run. Do not listen to the reasons why not. Do you work your dogs in an area other than the show ring? No. Response: Run. Do you have dogs here that you produced who bettered what you had? No. Response: Run. Do you have a guarantee on the dogs hips/elbows to 26 months? conformation with no disqualifying or major faults? Temperament test capable? Health certificate from a vet and a refund/replacement guarantee after my vet checks him? No to any of these. Run. Get a yes to all these, witness it and odds are you will a pretty good Fila.
Slim
 

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
slim, you do know that there are still plenty of working filas out there from multiple different bloodlines, right? caramona, ibituruna, tabayara, SJL, etc all have current working filas in farms as driver/herders and as catch/tracker dogs for javali (south Amercican wild boar). Out of the 16 dogs that I have gotten for myself and for others only 3 were outright bad. 2 were bad because of health issues (crepitus(sp?) and bad hips) and the other genetic health issue and weird behaviorable issue.... 3 out of 16 is not bad at all although I have heard of some that have way worse odds or luck.. takes a decent amount of research and a pinch of luck to get what you want.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
No doubts there are good ones out there. No doubts there are filas still working. But the numbers have dwindled and the amount of bad filas offered for $$$$$ far out number the good ones. Not just Filas but with every other breed as well. My first experience was with a Baicaura pair that did it all. I saw them catch hogs in the morning and push cows in the afternoon. Their heads and face looked like someone had run them thru the grinder. They were real go getters. I was so afraid of shipping and dealing with importing back then I passed on going straight baicuara before they went out of business for a long time. I found a baicuara bitch here in the states and bought a female off her that looked like the first two I had met. She turned out to be a awesome dog. She had a split lip, high ear set, more masculine than a female 'should' be and the ball drive of a high end malinois. She was a beautiful defender of the home but had far too many conformation deficiencies. She lacked Fila 'temperament'. She failed her Fila temperament test. She was suppose to have a herding instinct but she caught anything that moved in front of her. I took her to a hog/boar pen and she caught like she was born to do it. I took her to a conformation show and was damn near laughed off the field. I had her just about broke to trailing shot deer when she died unexpectedly. So I let her be the example of what I was looking for and could get pieces and glimpses but everything the Baicuara dogs had shown me.
I don't doubt there are good ones out there they are just few and far between. S
 

dogman#1

Well-Known Member

unfortunatley there are no "efforts" from one side at all... it is $ and nothing else. when they break away from the FCI and start concentrating on working dogs then they will be considered a legitimate source until then their shows demonstrate what they are looking for and that is anything that will bring the Fila to mainstream (touchable, profitable and ultimately no function). you can already see it when you hear of the complaints of judges disqualifying dogs for showing temp...you asked for it when you crossed breeds and demanded that to be the norm. BTW I named some CAFIB and some UNIFILA kennels that have working dogs in current use..... would anyone like to name some other bloodlines still in current use as working lines? (BTW I have pictures and video proof, please be honest and have the same handy...thank you).
 

tojvan

Well-Known Member
unfortunatley there are no "efforts" from one side at all... it is $ and nothing else. when they break away from the FCI and start concentrating on working dogs then they will be considered a legitimate source until then their shows demonstrate what they are looking for and that is anything that will bring the Fila to mainstream (touchable, profitable and ultimately no function). you can already see it when you hear of the complaints of judges disqualifying dogs for showing temp...you asked for it when you crossed breeds and demanded that to be the norm. BTW I named some CAFIB and some UNIFILA kennels that have working dogs in current use..... would anyone like to name some other bloodlines still in current use as working lines? (BTW I have pictures and video proof, please be honest and have the same handy...thank you).

Dogman i agree with you and don't agree with you at the same time. To clarify yes dogs have been disqualified for showing temprament by judges, specifically Linda Trustman who has no idea what the breed is about, for example one of the dogs named Al Capone do Lionsden was disqualified for showing strong temperament, but the same dog was awarded first place in another show by another judge. The problem with is that of unity and execution. By saying that there is no effort, your saying they haven't done anything, meaning a 0, i think what your trying to say is that they haven't done enough because the fact that they redid their standard merits more than a zero. Judges are not suppose to touch the dogs even in dog shows, the problem is they can't seem to get judges that are Familiar with The breed and instead get judges who have no idea and are given a quick rundown. So to state it again yes i agree with you to some extent, just not completely.
 
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chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
No he meant zero. None. Nothing. Thats Juan. Extreme. He thinks he's gang banging. Cafib verse every other one in the world. In his mind he literally thinks there are 2 sides. His and the rest of the world. He cant wrap his ahead around the fact that many folks could breed, even breed to the cafib standard, and still not give two shits and even less respect to cafib. Or any other club for that matter. You could buy two of the best cafibs in the world, breed them, register them under ckbc, and they instantly become shit dogs.
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
Dogman i agree with you and don't agree with you at the same time. To clarify yes dogs have been disqualified for showing temprament by judges, specifically Linda Trustman who has no idea what the breed is about, for example one of the dogs named Al Capone do Lionsden was disqualified for showing strong temperament, but the same dog was awarded first place in another show by another judge. The problem with is that of unity and execution. By saying that there is no effort, your saying they haven't done anything, meaning a 0, i think what your trying to say is that they haven't done enough because the fact that they redid their standard merits more than a zero. Judges are not suppose to touch the dogs even in dog shows, the problem is they can't seem to get judges that are Familiar with The breed and instead get judges who have no idea and are given a quick rundown. So to state it again yes i agree with you to some extent, just not completely.

This, and it does not apply to just Fila.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
I would like to see the video. I do not have any video of the bitch I had so it can't be a trade-off. I barely have pictures as that was not all that important at the time. I would enjoy watching the working Fila in action. And I may have my own definition of working but my definition is off-lead, listening, completing tasks as told/commanded. Tracking on lead is close but I like to see the dogs out on his own doing what he was bred to do or what he was trained to do, either works for me. I like Beagles that will jump and run, hounds that will jump, run and tree, pointers that point, service dogs that do bite work, track, locate narcotics, etc..etc.. Like most I have a couple of favorite breeds, but I am a huge fan of the working dog. Videos would be fun to watch. I am anxiously awaiting. S



unfortunatley there are no "efforts" from one side at all... it is $ and nothing else. when they break away from the FCI and start concentrating on working dogs then they will be considered a legitimate source until then their shows demonstrate what they are looking for and that is anything that will bring the Fila to mainstream (touchable, profitable and ultimately no function). you can already see it when you hear of the complaints of judges disqualifying dogs for showing temp...you asked for it when you crossed breeds and demanded that to be the norm. BTW I named some CAFIB and some UNIFILA kennels that have working dogs in current use..... would anyone like to name some other bloodlines still in current use as working lines? (BTW I have pictures and video proof, please be honest and have the same handy...thank you).
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
I saw a a really beautiful Grendals Lair bitch lose in a show ring once to a dog that was blatantly dysplastic. The other dog had an horrible ear set, the lips and head screamed neopolitan. A bad specimen. But it won. As I watched this judge throughout the day she judged with the 'Mastiff means big head" philosophy. The Fila got a bad name or a bad review that day, and I feel like it happens with other breeds as well. S




I have seen a judge google the Corso breed standard on their phone as the Corso's were entering the ring. It happens in all breeds.
 

Tiger12490

Well-Known Member
unfortunatley there are no "efforts" from one side at all... it is $ and nothing else. when they break away from the FCI and start concentrating on working dogs then they will be considered a legitimate source until then their shows demonstrate what they are looking for and that is anything that will bring the Fila to mainstream (touchable, profitable and ultimately no function). you can already see it when you hear of the complaints of judges disqualifying dogs for showing temp...you asked for it when you crossed breeds and demanded that to be the norm. BTW I named some CAFIB and some UNIFILA kennels that have working dogs in current use..... would anyone like to name some other bloodlines still in current use as working lines? (BTW I have pictures and video proof, please be honest and have the same handy...thank you).

Athena's dad guards and moves stock in Cali

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
 

tojvan

Well-Known Member
COOL, lets see it! I know Lions Den should have a million videos of that, I just haven't seen it.
Lol i used lions den as an example since it actually happened. The dog was disqualified for showing temperament. i don't want to get into defending anyone, You can see pictures of the show on facebook for yourself, if you go to granada filas you tube channel you can see videos of alcapone and for lions den they have some temperament tests on their youtube channel of 8 month old puppies and adults showing ojeriza.
 
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dogman#1

Well-Known Member
No he meant zero. None. Nothing. Thats Juan. Extreme. He thinks he's gang banging. Cafib verse every other one in the world. In his mind he literally thinks there are 2 sides. His and the rest of the world. He cant wrap his ahead around the fact that many folks could breed, even breed to the cafib standard, and still not give two shits and even less respect to cafib. Or any other club for that matter. You could buy two of the best cafibs in the world, breed them, register them under ckbc, and they instantly become shit dogs.

Whoa! Chuck have you been mind raping me? how do you know what I think? OIfcourse when someone assumes they are usually wrong, case in point. What "I think" is not me vs the world (who is extreme here?), I KNOW there are 2 standards, I know one is there to preserve a breed and I know the other changes with the wind as their dogs change. I know that there are some that breed to the CAFIB standard but dont like CAFIBs politics and I know those dogs are not shit just cause they have CBKC peds... my dog has a CBKC pedigree (damn, must be true what they say about those that make assumptions!). I happened to buy a pup from a man who is a CBKC breeder and while the pup came from good lines and was what I thought it grew up with a messed up rear, that could happene to anyone and not the breeders fault (again looks like ALL your assumptions are incorrect).

Now, you guys may consider the changing of the standard a positive from CBKC but it is a major negative IMO. Why would anyone change a standard that many times? Why aren't the dogs conforming to the set standard instead of the standard changing to meet what is currently being bred? That was an irresponsible response to the dogs not matching the standard. Any time that a well intentioned Non CAFIB breeder attempts to do something positive they shoot them down...remember Sene Sena. Some of the breeders are VERY well intentioned and I am friends with many of them, it is the organization itself that is set up against the preservation of the breed as it was intended.

In the newest standard (2004) (I think that is the most recent one), it specifically states that if the dog is overly aggressive it is a disqualification and refers to Ojeriza as "aloof"... Aloof, really? an afghan hound is aloof a Fila is not what one should consider aloof. The lions den dog that was disqualified was being shown under an earlier standard which should have allowed him to show proper ojeriza but because of the lack of knowledge from the judge the dog was disqual'ed. That should tell you something as well... why would you show a dog under an organization in which you know more about the breed than the judge? If I have to provide the standard to the judge then they are not qualified to judge my breed.
 

aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
Whoa! Chuck have you been mind raping me? how do you know what I think? OIfcourse when someone assumes they are usually wrong, case in point.

Anyone familiar with Filas knows where you stood, stand and will stand in the future. You are a piece of work.
 
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