White House Secret Service Dogs

[ruby55]

In case you missed it:
Meet the Secret Service Dogs Who Took Down White House Fence Jumper - ABC News


I have a couple of questions for all handlers of dogs in protection &/or bite work.

1. So these dogs are trained to attack on command. Why did the first dog back off when he was kicked? I would have thought that a kick in the face wouldn't even slow these guys down.
2. If I'm not mistaken (& I may be), training for this kind of work would entail a reward afterwards, like a tug toy, etc. Is part of the reason the first dog backed off because it's play in his mind? Or are attack dogs trained differently than dogs in bite work for sport?

Sorry if my questions are not clear. I'm having a hard time articulating lately....

 

[Siloh]

I really know very little about PPD training, but I do know that it is supposed to be much different from schutzhund.

I heard about this. My fiance says the president should personally give them each a scoop of peanut butter. Regardless of the one dog backing off (I didn't/don't know the details of the dogs' behavior during the apprehension), not sure how effective the guy thought kicking one dog when two are coming for you would be. Seems a bit... shortsighted.

 

[alejandro]

I just saw a short clip they show on the news here and it was very dark, but it called my attention how the tan dog back off, i know he got a good kick in the face and all but that should at most stop him a second(in my unexperience opinion), but in the end it was the black dog the only one doing a good job, for what i saw.

 

[Catia]

If I got kicked in the head hard, it could knock me off my game, even if my adrenaline were racing.
I've had a couple of head knocks that were not intentional & it takes a minute (or days) to get your thoughts together-depending on the blow.

Maybe the pooch couldn't see straight so couldn't make a decision to act?

They're not super heros & they're not impervious to pain, so it's not a guaranteed thing that they can just keep going, it's just one line of defense.

 

[zardac]

I wonder if they might have called him back, since the other dog and a flock of agents were right on his heels.
.

 

[ruby55]

If I got kicked in the head hard, it could knock me off my game, even if my adrenaline were racing.
I've had a couple of head knocks that were not intentional & it takes a minute (or days) to get your thoughts together-depending on the blow.

Maybe the pooch couldn't see straight so couldn't make a decision to act?

They're not super heros & they're not impervious to pain, so it's not a guaranteed thing that they can just keep going, it's just one line of defense.

While I agree that they're not impervious to pain, their skulls can take a lot more abuse than a human's. It just seems odd to me that the mal backed off. I was under the impression from everything I've seen that it usually takes more than a kick in the face to stop them if they're on the attack.

 

[irina]

It seemed odd to me too that the first dog backed down. Maybe somebody with protection training experience can shed some light on this for us.

 

[AZ Boerboel]

I have been attacked by a large pit mix at a customers house. Believe me, a well placed kick to a dogs head will ring its bell enough that it will reconsider anything else it may be thinking of. They are not immune from pain, dizziness, or anything else. One solid kick almost put that dog out, and it was enough that he didn't want to continue on with me. (I'm not one to be violent with animals for no reason and only kicked this one out of an act to save my own body parts. He was a seriously shitty behaved and poorly trained dog that had no place being with an owner who never worked with him. He decided after seeing me daily for almost a month that suddenly I was food).
I'm sure the dog at the White House was seeing tweety birds dancing around from how that connection looked.

 

[alejandro]

I know dogs are not inmune to pain, dizziness, ect. I know he got a good kick in the head, i'm not trying to put the dog down or anything, a solid hit in the head just migth knock me on my butt. All i'm saying it's that in a diferent situation, one in wich the dog would have been alone the criminal could had time to run away or kill the dog, of course no dog it's failproof, but been the WHITE HOUSE SECRET SERVICE DOGS i'll expect a lot more tan that. Also i think the breed have a lot to do with it, if you try to kick a 50+ kg mastiff that is running onto you the result would be a lot diferent, just the inertia(don't know if that's the correct word) of the mass coming towards you would make the diference.

 

[DMikeM]

The first dog failed and needs to be retired or retrained. Retired would be best. Any dog protecting that lawn should not back out of an attack on itself ever. The second dog was also injured but hung in until it was pulled back. Both dogs are fitted with e-collars, harnesses and have long lines attached to them. Someone said that the first dog was pulled back by his line but I say BS he was hurt and got scared and ran off. Luckily they were using 2 dogs which they should have deployed at the same time not staggered.

Here is a properly trained Mali.
[video=youtube_share;-LgIM3tdojI]http://youtu.be/-LgIM3tdojI[/video]

Watch this Boerboel get kicked repeatedly.
[video=youtube;lcU28UeO9Mg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcU28UeO9Mg&feature=youtu.be&t=2m22s[/video]

Here is a Boerboel puppy being trained to attack the kick.
[video=youtube_share;L-MjXbTNTgk]http://youtu.be/L-MjXbTNTgk?t=1m14s[/video]

 

[Dan]

I must say I was surprised that the 1st dog backed off like that; although I think it did go back after the guy after a pause (?)

I am certainly not going to question the SS training methods

Just from my experience generally though, there are different approaches to protection work.

Some trainers believe that you should begin by putting the dog under pressure - even to the point of making it back off initially - before building its confidence.
Others treat the exercise as a game and don't really apply pressure at all - or only after the dog is very well used to the "game".
I've seen dogs that look impressive - but are really just playing with the "sleeve". You see them go after the sleeve rather than the man if he lets the sleeve go.

I've seen others that seem really impressive in terms of obedience/sport bite work - but that really aren't aggressive or powerful enough to take down a man who isn't intimidated by them.

I'm not a dog trainer - so I am not about to say who is right or wrong - both methods may achieve the same thing eventually - or suit different temperaments of dogs - or even dogs that start training at different ages?

I think it is a question of to the degree that you work the dog in "self defense" drive - when it is almost fighting for its life
... or in "prey drive" - when it sees the exercise more as a game and is having fun with it.

I don't think in either case it should be possible to "back down" a fully trained protection dog.
I think its also true that not all dogs have the temperament to be trained to that level.
They can still be effective family guards - working with the back up of the owner - but just won't have the confidence to fully "go it alone"?