Took my CC for a walk, and ended up with a broken finger. (Long rant)

[Mag-Pie]

Hello everybody. I'd like some advice. It's been a tough week. And I'd like to apologize ahead of time for the long rant.

Here is a quick recap of my CC: Luther, is about 16 months old now, when I got him just a little over 2 months ago he had/has some dominance and fear-aggression issues, and was/is fearful and reactive with everything, on a bad day. Now, as I expose/socialize him to the outside world, and he's doing his pro training he is becoming more stable. With every day he is getting more confident and comfortable, but I am also finding our more about his other issues that I was not aware of. He is very wary of all new people, so I try to stay a good distance away from them on our daily walks, usually 10 feet is a good comfortable distance for him. And I always keep him on a leash, although he is off-leash trained (wears the e-collar) and always comes when I call him, I just don't trust other people and their possible reactions to him, nor do I trust him... I simply do not know him well enough, yet. For the most part as long as everyone stays away from him, and doesn't get too close he remains stable. He walks perfectly on a leash, heels, listens, etc. If you'd see him on the street with me, you'd think that he has perfect manners and is very well trained, and mentally stable.

Until now, I never noticed anything odd about his behavior to other dogs, but then again we never had many encounters... He has no problem interacting with the neighbors dog across the fence. They always seem like they want to play, doing the whole play-bows, and polite sniffing. On our walks he notices other dogs, usually across the street, and looks like he'd like to go over to them, but as we walk by he ultimately ignores them. I know he has not been socialized by his previous owners with other dogs, and frankly for the most part I do not care/want to have him interacting with strange dogs.

WARNING: Long drawn-out RANT coming up, please bear with me.

The other day on our walk, we went through a neighborhood park, we've been there before a few times and always had a nice walk. I've been walking him twice daily without any problems, usually structured walks, and a few minutes at a park. This time, at the park, a pack (2 or 3) of off-leash dogs charged at us, while their shitbag owners stood there chatting to each other and laughing… and not calling off their dogs. Everything happened so fast, I didn't even have a minute to think. The shit hit the fan, I could not keep Luther on the leash, I tired, after he started pulling, somehow I ended up with my ass on the ground and with a broken middle finger. I got soo mad, I got up and went total psycho, screamed and swore up and down at them fine folks… The park says all dogs must be on leash. But I guess that's just a suggestion.

Luther ended up taking off out of sight (to the edge of the park) after I dropped the leash, and probably once he heard me start screaming and get hostile. He knows when I am not playing. I think the pain from breaking my finger contributed to me going total psycho, I never broke anything in my life, and the adrenalin from all of this going down, made me lose my cool. Looking back I could have handled it better, but it is what it is. The off-leash “dog owners†got all offended by my behavior, (only one guy came up to apologize, while the others just stood there in the distance making comments, and so the guy ended up on the receiving end of me totally going off on him and his "friendsâ€). But never mind the fact that I did not provoke this, I was minding my own business and walking at least 50+ feet away from them, across the field, with my dog on the leash… But because their dogs wanted to be “friendlyâ€, that's all that matters. And here I was trying to do the right thing and stay away and control my dog so others wouldn't feel threatened. Luther was completely calm and minding his own business until the dogs started running towards us. FUCK THAT. I thought that I was pretty much prepared for everything while walking with him, but apparently not something like this.

Part of me cares and wants to understand how this happened, and if I was at fault? But another part says no, fuck that, they were at fault. Why would you let your dog charge at a person walking their dog, far away from you, a total stranger minding their business, sure your dog can be friendly but you don't know who I am and what type of dog I have. The stupidity of so many people, and their 'fuck it' careless and irresponsible attitude only shows me that I care too much, and I should be more like them. Okay, end of rant. I apologize for going on and on about this incident.

So, my finger is double in size, turning colors and it hurts, but I'm fine, haha. The finger is the least of my worries, really. After all that “fun†I went over to get my dog, who came back once I called out to him, and we walked passed all them fine folks and their dogs, who magically were under their control now. Luther and I went over to a bench and had a relaxing stare down across the field, until the others left. Luther seemed fine, laying down and watching people from a distance as he usually does. Then we went home. Next day, we went to the park again, because I didn't want him to have a bad association to a place we use to enjoy. And off course, again, there was a guy with 2 dogs off leash, across the field, and Luther ran off again when 2 dogs approached him. This time I didn't have a leash on him, since I have him on the e-collar (500 yards leash), and it's obvious that others have their dogs off-leash all the time. But, the guy was cool, and his dog ran off after Luther and ironically his dog's name was Luther too… I was calm and in control of myself, and got Luther back in no time. And then it hit me, I think he is okay with one dog at a time, but any time there is 2 or more dogs he freaks out and just runs away. I wasn't aware of this, since I never had such an encounter. But I was wrong, because then today, we're at a different park, and Luther is off leash, and a couple came with their dog off-leash, walking our way, and this time I yelled out to the guy to call his dog back. To which he replied, “oh he's okay, he's friendlyâ€. GRRRR!!! So his dogs runs up, and starts sniffing Luther, everything seems fine and all of a sudden Luther takes off, running down to the edge of the park, across the street and down the road and eventually stopped and sat down, waiting for me to go get him. Wouldn't come when called, or paged. FUCK! Needless to say, my nerves are shot.

I know he was not socialized properly by his previous owners, he has not had any contact with other dogs, so he does not know how to behave around them. I know I still have a lot of work to do with him, but I am pleased with the progress he's made in the short time I've had him. When I take him to training, and we're in group class with other 10-20 dogs he is totally fine, completely focused on his work. But every dog there has an e-collar on, is obedience trained and is engaged with their owner, so no one is running up to anyone. Whereas in the park, it's a free for all and the other dog owners think it's great for their dogs to go up to us, EVEN when I tell them to call back their dogs. Mind you these are NOT dog parks, I would NEVER go to one of those, just regular neighborhood parks with swings, benches, picnic tables, and open field areas, with signs that dogs must be on leash…

And I completely understand that frankly, most Cane Corsos are "too much dog" for the average person. This is a serious working dog with tremendous strength. Very few people really have the knowledge, facilities, or skills necessary to manage this breed. I am 5'7†and 120lbs, Luther probably weighs as much as me now, if not more. But in the 2 months I've been walking with him, I had no problems… we've encountered other off-leash dogs across the park before, but they never came our way… And besides this running away form other “friendly†dogs, who come by to sniff him, I am always able to handle him. He's definitely a challenge, and a work in progress; but aren't we all? I am committed to working with him, to rehabilitate his mind, but I am totally baffled by this. He seems like he wants to interact, but something happens to him in his mind and he runs off. It's like he gets overwhelmed and can't handle it.

It is obvious that many people on here are serious about their mastiffs, and I really like seeing that, while learning from their expertise and experience. This forum is truly amazing and helpful. So any advice for the future would be appreciated.

Also, what should I say to people when I see their off-leash dogs running towards us, since asking them to call back their dogs falls on deaf ears, and then I come out looking like the asshole with a crazy out of control dog. Yes, I do try to stay a good distance away from people, and now off-leash dogs, but they, now, come to us. WTF? I never thought that other people would be so willing to allow their dogs to run up to a stranger (who's not really friendly) with a HUGE dog. I would NEVER do that. I just don't get it, they must live in a different world, or state of mind then me… Thank you for your time, and for reading, if you made it this far. And I apologize for the length of this post, and my rant. I just wanted to explain the situation, and vent, I guess. Cheers!

P.S.

On a happy note, here is a collage of a few pics of Luther.

 

[Max's mom]

I think what you are doing by working so hard to socialize Luther and just by having rescued him a few months back is admirable! Keep it up...you know that beatiful boy is worth it all. And in about a week, start soaking that hand in epsom salts and hot water a few times a day!

 

[Mag-Pie]

Thank you Max's mom. Yes, I'm doing it all because I really do think he is worth it, and currently I am in a position to be able to spend so much time on working with him. When I got him I knew he was going to be a lot of work for me, but I guess I didn't realize how powerful he really is, strength-wise. But I'm learning to manage him.

I am an all around animal lover, I rescue/rehabilitate birds mostly and some cats... much easier to handle. I believe that animals are individual beings who deserve to live the best life possible, and if it's in my power, this is what I offer them when they come to live with me. Here I might be anthropomorphizing animals, but as far as critics go I frankly don't care. I don't like to see animals suffer, nor die unnecessary death via euthanizing. And in the case of Luther, I am pretty sure he would have been PTS (because of his initial displays of aggression) if his previous owners took him to a shelter as they were thinking of doing. He's still a young dog, who is healthy, very intelligent but needs training, and so he deserves a chance.

Either way, thank you again, and thanks for the suggestion for my hand.

 

[irina]

Here is something you can try. Our trainer has a Malinoit who is perfectly trained, but does not do well around other dogs. He gets reactive. Being a professional dog trainer, she obviously tried everything she could unsuccessfully, so this is what she does. When on walks she always carries a second leash, heavy leather one. When she sees an off-leash dog running towards her and the owner refuses or is unable to call the dog back, or if the owner is nowhere to be seen, she hits the leash hard on the grown in front of the strange dog. Apparently it makes a loud sound and the dog always runs away. My dog gets overly friendly and stops paying attention to me when an off-leash dog approaches. Mind you he is only 11 months old, but I don't want it to become a habit, so I usually stomp and yell at the dog to go away. Basicly, treat it as if a wild animal approached, say a coyote. Forget what the irresponsible owners would think of you, take matters into your own hands and scare the dog off before it gets close enough for your dog to react. One more thing... Luther can sense that you are scared, concerned, worried, unsure in situations like that and feeds off it. If you are confident and strong and he sees that you are able to protect him as a pack leader should, that no harm will come to him as long as you are around, he will start gaining confidence too. I hope this helps.

 

[broccolini]

Clearly the people who have their dogs off-leash and can't control them are wrong. But if you can't keep control of your leashed dog in that situation, then you need to do something about that. You are lucky that your dog just runs away. If he was aggressive in that situation and killed another dog, you would be responsible for that. He could just as easily be reactive to small, running children. You need to get some sort of equipment that allows you to maintain control of him.

I have a dog reactive TM. She gets walked with a flat collar and a front clip harness. The harness gives me leverage to turn her if I need to. You can use a head harness or a prong collar also. Find something that works and use it along with a regular collar. Having two points of contact is super helpful even though it's kind of a pain to deal with two leashes.

Hopefully, with enough socialization and positive experiences, he'll get better. In the meantime, find a way to keep him with you. You can't control the stupid people in the world. There's always going to be some jackass yelling 'He's friendly' while their out of control dog runs at you.

Luther sounds like a nice dog that just needs some work and some short term management for his own safety. Good luck with him and your finger.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Word of advice, if you continue to put him into situations where his fear and reactivity causes him to ignore the ecollar you're going to break his ecollar training. So please do not rely on the ecollar when you're in a situation where you MIGHT encounter something that he's going to react to.

Get your trainer to show you techniques to maintain control of him when he looses it. This may very well require a front-clip harness, or a prong collar, or other such equipment, but you need it.

Ditto the advice to be aggressive towards loose charging dogs. When the owners respond "he's friendly!" yell back "mine's not!" and carry pepper spray, or a stick to fend off the dogs.

 

[Mag-Pie]

Thank you everybody for your input, it is greatly appreciated. I am well aware of the potential liability if I can't control my dog, and yes I plan on using other equipment to help me manage him better. I will definitely discuss training options with our trainer, unfortunately for the next 3 weeks they are off from training, (summer break, seriously bad timing, I wish I was made aware of this issue before last week). But in the meantime I plan on avoiding all off-leash dogs, as soon as I see them. Also if there is no quick way to avoid off-leash dogs, I will start yelling out that “my dog is NOT friendlyâ€, and will start carrying pepper spray, and maybe even a stick.

"Forget what the irresponsible owners would think of you, take matters into your own hands and scare the dog off before it gets close enough for your dog to react. One more thing... Luther can sense that you are scared, concerned, worried, unsure in situations like that and feeds off it. If you are confident and strong and he sees that you are able to protect him as a pack leader should, that no harm will come to him as long as you are around, he will start gaining confidence too."

^^^ This is exactly what I have been thinking of doing, but I guess I didn't want to come off like an asshole, since all these other dog owners think it's a great idea for their dogs to come running up at mine, and they are all at ease, and my weakness may lie in the fact that I do feel unsure as what to do, which in turn might be adding to triggering Luthers' reaction. I will work on becoming more sure of myself. I guess I needed to hear this from someone else, that it's okay for me to react in such a manner. So thank you irina and ruthcatrin for your suggestions on dealing with other dogs/dog owners.

"Hopefully, with enough socialization and positive experiences, he'll get better. In the meantime, find a way to keep him with you. You can't control the stupid people in the world. There's always going to be some jackass yelling 'He's friendly' while their out of control dog runs at you.

Luther sounds like a nice dog that just needs some work and some short term management for his own safety. Good luck with him and your finger."

Thank you broccolini. Yes, Luther is a very nice dog, we love having him as a part of our family, and yes he does need more work. Every day I learn more about him, and about new things that need to be worked though... I'll admit, for me it's a steep learning curve.

 

[ruthcatrin]

^^^ This is exactly what I have been thinking of doing, but I guess I didn't want to come off like an asshole, since all these other dog owners think it's a great idea for their dogs to come running up at mine, and they are all at ease, and my weakness may lie in the fact that I do feel unsure as what to do, which in turn might be adding to triggering Luthers' reaction. I will work on becoming more sure of myself. I guess I needed to hear this from someone else, that it's okay for me to react in such a manner. So thank you irina and ruthcatrin for your suggestions on dealing with other dogs/dog owners.

Normal reaction But yah, sometimes being an asshole is required!

Additional suggestion, I don't know what sort of leash you're using, but consider adding a traffic lead to the collar. It'll give you a closer hold and an easy 2nd hand hold, for when two hands is required. I loop the regular lead through the traffic lead so that the traffic lead doesn't dangle, and stays right where its easy for me to grab:



I find it much easier to keep them under control when I have that closer hand hold. Apollo doesn't outweigh me, but only because I'm over-weight!

 

[Mag-Pie]

Thank you ruthcartin for another great suggestion of having the regular lead looped through a traffic lead so it's always there for me to grab. Yes! See, I always use the traffic lead (I didn't know what it was called, I thought it was just a short lead) when walking Luther on our structured walks. But then walking through a park I started to switch it with a regular leash so that he can sniff around for a few minutes, and that is where I went wrong. Had I had the short lead/traffic lead I would have been able to manage him better, but instead I lost my footing as he started pulling on the long leash away from me. And I was trying to hold on to it soo tight, that it resulted in a broken finger. Haha. From my limited experience, I've learned that using the traffic lead makes controlling my huge dog so much easier. From now on I will ALWAYS keep it on, just like in the pic you attached. Wow, I can't believe that I totally didn't think of this… Thank you again. But I guess I started feeling too confident in my handling skills, since I felt like I was doing great with Luther, and because he is without issues in class and we're surrounded by other dogs there… Now that I see that not every dog owner does his part to keep their dog under control, it is my responsibility to be double responsible.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Been there!

In my case, I have arthritis in both hands, grabbing a loop is easier for me than trying to wrap my hand around the body of the leash when I need a second hand hold. So it was a natural progression for me. That set of leads are custom pieces and I've decided that next time I order from them I'm just going to have them put the traffic loop right on the ring with the regular lead.

 

[khplaw]

I think everyone of us has been in a similar situation at one time or another. No worries. Yes, you DO have to be doubly responsible because most dog owners have no clue what could or would happen in the presence of a large powerful dog. But you can bet your skivvies that you will somehow be to blame because you have the bigger dog. I did my dogs training first on a flat leash, and then when she became too strong for me, went to a prong for an attitude adjustment. Now she goes either way, but when we are out in public I don;t take a chance and put her prong on. Loose of course which makes it almost worthless but the weight is there and people can see it. To them, it looks like I have more than adequate control of my dog OR that my dog is so powerful they need to stay away. Either way... my Sophie, 13 months and 130 pounds, goes on a leash everywhere. We go to softball games with other dogs and running yelling children, stupid people who couldn't care less about.their dogs or mine, drunks and just plain idgits. When she was small she went EVERYWHERE with me. I think her favorite place with the fragrance counter as Nordstroms all the ladies just loved on her when they discovered she wasn't going to take off a limb here and there. When people want to pet her, I tell them it is up to her and let her approach you. But I digress...

As a corso owner it is up to you to watch out for all the dumb as a rump other dog owners. If they could find their hinds ends with both hands, life would be better for us all, but since this is not a perfect world, we do what we can. Yes it is frustrating and aggravating and all the other ...atings you can think of. When I know Iam going to be taking my dog somewhere she hasn't been before I try to get there early so she can watch the others arrive and not feel so overwhelmed. I don;t know if that will help you or not but its a thought.

I am sorry about your finger; been there done that. Currently I have a fracture of a bone in my knee that I am supposed to stay off of for 3 weeks (like I can do that). I think it comes with owning a big dog. Accidents happen and I'll bet Luther gave your finger a good sniff and sad eyes. You two will get to know each other inside and out and just be patient, consistent and have a sense of humor. I too cuss like a trucker driver when I am hurt, and get loud at other people, and I have learned that it does absolutely no good whatsoever. Snobs tisk tisk at you for behaving badly, and other people will walk away and talk about you behind your back. I am with you; they are welcome to insert their craniums in whatever orofice they prefer or where it fits best and leave me be. Feel better! Hope this helps.

 

[Mag-Pie]

Thank you khplaw for your kind words, and sharing your training experience. I've always tried to be responsible with Luther because I am aware of what potentially could happen in the presence of a large powerful dog such as a CC. And up until this past week, everyone seemed to avoid as, just as I've avoided them. Then for some crazy reason, all of a sudden I'm running into all these “friendly†people who seems clueless or rather reckless. I don't get it, maybe it's because summer is in full swing. IDK.

I started walking Luther on a flat collar as soon as I got him, but after that 1st walk I realized it was impossible. He was never walked before, so he was out of control as far as how hard he pulled on a leash. I thought that he would rip my arm off. Next day, my SO suggested a choke collar, but as soon as I put it on Luther, he didn't even skip a beat, kept pulling just as hard except this time he would make choking noises, leash corrections were impossible to do, and I decided then and there that I HATED the choke collar and would never use it again. IMO it was useless, seemed to be harming the dog, and was throwing me out of the zone - I was too distracted with the choking noises and could not focus to work on training him to walk properly. Next was the martingale collar (leather and chain), which in all honesty was not much better then the flat collar as far as walking him goes. (Now Luther wears the martingale collar around the house, it's his jewelry, but that's about it) And finally I said enough and got the Herm Sprenger training/prong collar with quick release snap (3.25 mm) and a short/traffic lead. I did my research on how to properly fit it, and use it. And within a week I could walk Luther without straining my arm, looking back I can't believe that I walked him that first week in spite of all the pulling he did; but somehow I did because I was obsessed with walking him at least once a day. Now I walk him twice. I think in my head I had this idea that if I could walk him, then I could eventually train him. Then a few weeks later when his pro training started, the trainer was impressed with his leash walking skills - he told me he was expecting to have Luther drag him down the street. Same thing with the place command, the trainer though that he would have to “manhandle†Luther to get him to place, but I trained him before the trainer even had a chance. And he was impressed with that too.

I would like the add that when I was at the park, when it all went down the first time and the dogs rushed us, Luther was actually wearing his prong collar, I just didn't have the short/traffic lead to have a good hold on him. And the correction he got from me holding tight on the leash did not affect him at all, he kept pulling with all his strength and ran off as soon as I let go… it's like his pain threshold is so much greater then an average dog. However, the comments from some of them "fine folks" whose dogs came at us, which I overheard were about the fact that my dog had a prong collar on and how it was abusive or something along those lines… which I didn't even want to get into. So I suppose those people now think of me that not only am I some psycho with an out of control dog, but also that I am abusing my dog with a prong collar. Which is completely false. I'd think they would be more understanding that the HUGE dog I have needs adequate tools to control him. The fact that they were so ignorant, and making judgement calls, without knowing anything about his history or mine, makes my blood pressure rise. The fact is that I did not have the opportunity to bring him up as a puppy, if I did I would have totally done as you have, khplaw, I would have taken him EVERYWHERE with me, on top of training him with a pro trainer, and I probably wouldn't be here ranting and raving, lol. Now I digress.

"When I know Iam going to be taking my dog somewhere she hasn't been before I try to get there early so she can watch the others arrive and not feel so overwhelmed. I don;t know if that will help you or not but its a thought."

Yes, thank you. I decided to change our walking times by doing them a bit earlier, and today as we walked through the park there was only 2 people with their dogs on leash across the field, and some children playing in the distance. Just the way I like it. Luther walked perfectly, listened to me, and seemed to be relaxed and enjoying our walk. After making sure there was no one around us, I also let him run around for a few minutes off leash, and he came back every time I called him. He loves to run, and I love to watch him run.

I've been reading about dog signals, and I am aware that dogs are giving us information all the time about how they are feeling and what they might do next - but we don't see/know them. I'm still learning to read my dog, but I think I'm becoming more able to catch things before he does anything. I know it will take time and me being patient, consistent and also developing a sense of humor. I'm sorry to hear about your knee, and I wish you a speedy recovery. I guess you are right that injuries are part of owning a big dog, I actually have many mysterious bruises all over, that started appearing when I got Luther. Cheers!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yah, you're going to get that with a prong. Cause obviously, if there's POINTS on it then EVERY TIME YOU MOVE you're jabbing him with those POINTS and CAUSING HIM PAIN!!!! *sarcasm*

Never mind that used correctly it doesn't cause ANY pain......

Never mind the damage the flat and choke collars were going to do to his throat and neck if you'd kept on with them.....

Oh, if you haven't seen it already, someone will eventually show you that nasty picture of the dog with holes in his neck "from a prong collar". There are exactly two ways that could have happened, ok, three. And they ALL involve VERY incorrectly used prongs. 1: the points of the prongs were sharpened 2: the prong was left on the dog when it wasn't attached to a leash (ie: while the dog was playing) and something hit the dog with enough force to drive the points through his skin (which takes alot of force, but its not impossible, never ever leave the prong on the dog when you're not actively using it, not even for a 5 minute car ride), and 3: the prong was left on the dog permanently and allowed to in-grow, I highly suspect that this is actually where that picture comes from, and that frankly has NOTHING to do with the prong and is plain and simple abuse and neglect, the damage done by a flat collar, or even harness, thats allowed to ingrow is even more gruesome but no one rushes to try to ban THEM when they see it....

If it becomes a serious issue for you there ARE covers you can buy to fit over the Herm Sprengers to make it less obvious.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Some additional things for you to think about trying:

If you do see something that looks like its a potential problem, simply turn the other direction and walk him away, this will ease some of his "must get away!!" because you're calmly leading him away, and because its calmly leading away he has the ability to recognize that you're taking care of it.

The sit and watch other dogs is a good idea, it'll give him a chance to observe from a "safe" location what normal dog behavior is. The more that happens the more he has the potential to be comfortable with it.

in conjunction with the sit and watch: If he's got any food drive, for every instant that he DOESN'T panic and just watches, even if he's showing signs of anxiety, give him a high value treat. Not a chew, but a high value bite of something he really really likes.

 

[broccolini]

If your dog will pull through the prong, you should try the head halter or the front clip harness. They give you more leverage and won't cause any injuries. If you get one of those, practice making u-turns. Use the harness or halter to turn the dog and let the pressure off of the neck collar as soon as he turns. It's a quick way to move away from any triggers you might encounter.

I like prongs for dogs that respect them, but I wouldn't use one on a dog that kept pulling on it. The pain might also make him more stressed and heighten his reaction. My dog got aggressive on her prong so we don't use it anymore. It was useful for teaching her not to pull as long as no other dogs were around.

 

[khplaw]

I did have a lady at the park, sans dog, challenge my use of the prong collar and why I thought it was OK to injure my dog in such a fashion. I took the collar off the dog, politely said "May I?" and put the collar on HER. I asked her to experiment with various tugs and jerks, and then removed it. Then I gave her a choke chain, and asked her to do the same thing. She very quickly got the point that having your trachea completely constricted and possibly permanently damaged was not a good thing.

Her first comment was that she was sorry she made any comment at all. She didn't realize how much more humane the prong collar was even though it looks like a medieval torture device. And to completely make my point, I asked her to walk my dog without and with the prong on.

When people understand that is going on, they aren't judgmental. If you can educated them, fantastic. But I have found that the people who need the knowledge most are those that don;t know what they don;t know in the first place. You cannot educate the ineducable, but you can manage your own little corner of the park without too much effort. Hope this too helps.

 

[khplaw]

And yes there are some lovely prong collar covers out there. I did see one made of an Hermes scarf. How luxurious! Does Hermes make men's items as well? Perhaps a knock off?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Broc makes a good point. If he continues to pull through the prong, even if only in moments of extreme fear, you'll need to find an alternative, but I'm hoping, that since he responded so well to it in the first place, but you can find a way to work around his fear with it. Maybe in combination with a headhalter/harness?

 

[Mag-Pie]

"If you do see something that looks like its a potential problem, simply turn the other direction and walk him away, this will ease some of his "must get away!!" because you're calmly leading him away, and because its calmly leading away he has the ability to recognize that you're taking care of it.

The sit and watch other dogs is a good idea, it'll give him a chance to observe from a "safe" location what normal dog behavior is. The more that happens the more he has the potential to be comfortable with it.

in conjunction with the sit and watch: If he's got any food drive, for every instant that he DOESN'T panic and just watches, even if he's showing signs of anxiety, give him a high value treat. Not a chew, but a high value bite of something he really really likes."

Yes, thank you for this advice. ^^^ This is the plan from now on. Luther does great when we're just sitting on a park bench observing everything from a distance. Sometimes I make him "place" up on a picnic table, the trainer said that if they are placed on a higher up spot, that makes them less willing to jump down and run off after some distraction. However that is not an issue, since he has no interest even in running after squirrels in the park. I suppose because I taught him not to chase them in our backyard. Since I have cats, pigeons and chickens I figured all animals are off limits for him... sometimes I let him chase chipmunks, they are small and super fast, but that's neither here nor there.

I was actually thinking of getting a nylon prong collar cover, or a black Herm Sprengler stainless steel prong collar. Black is the NEW chrome! Far away no one would notice it was a prong, since I'll make sure, from now on, that no one gets that close. Also, I was looking at something like a Pro Agitation Collar w/ Handle to have better control. What are your thoughts on that? Haha, khplaw, I think Hermes does make some men's items, but I think fragrance mostly.

As I've already mentioned, I did research the prong collar, watched videos from leerburg.com and solidk9training.com - I really like these two places, and the helpful information regarding all types of training they provide. And IMO the conclusion is that the prong collar is more effective, humane and appropriate, as it promotes a clearer, calmer correction than a flat collar or even a martingale (unless the dog is super soft which Luther is not), and it definitely seems to decrease both handler and dog stress surrounding the necessity for a correction. Obviously I don't think of it as a magic bullet, I know training needs to be priority and that is a lifetime commitment. But the prong collar does help me out - and Luther does great wearing it, and is responding to it VERY well, and seems to respect it, EXCEPT for that park incident. That was the only time I had lost control (but falling down, breaking my finger, AND the complete disregard by the other “fine folk†contributed to it). Yes, I should have known better but honestly I had no frame of reference, now I do.

I am not sure about the head halter or front clip harness, honestly I haven't researched them enough and the little that I know about them did not sound like something that would work well with Luther. But I might be wrong, I will discuss it with my trainer. Nevertheless, thank you for the suggestion broccolini. As far as the prong collar, Luther does not pull on it during his regular walks, the leash is always loose, and he is in heel, walking step in step with me. The park incident was the only time he kept pulling, until I let go… So I don't think the prong is making him more stressed on our structured walks.

And yes ruthcartin, I came across the nasty pictures of the dog with holes in his neck… and the ways that such a thing could happen would have had to been as you pointed out. Also I was thinking some of the photos looked like some idiot put nails in the dog collar they had on their dogs… people make me sick, and sad.

Also I wanted to add, that in the beginning when I got Luther, he would wear a muzzle on our walks, and when I would let him run off-leash for a bit. I got a nice Dog Attack Training Leather Muzzle form fordogtrainers.com and he was/is fine wearing it. So any time that I know I am going to be around people, I make him wear it just in case. The day of the park incident, he did not have it on. Since he was doing great with being off-leash, not running off, always coming to me when called, not paying attention to distractions such as other people, and on-leash dogs, etc., he almost seemed like a normal stable dog… Like I said - I started feeling a bit too confident in my handling skills.

On a side note, one day a while back, Luther was off-leash, e-collared and muzzled, running happily in one of the parks we go to. And there was a couple of guys walking by, admiring him and how well he was behaving. And one of the guys came up to me to ask what type of dog it was, (Luther just paused and watched the guy from 10 feet away) and then he asked me if "the dog really needs to be wearing that thing", as in it is cruel for the dog to have it on, and I was like "yes he needs it"... Seriously, people are so clueless, it's like they have no idea or don't care, and assume I am being mean to the dog on purpose, until something happens and then all the responsibility is on me.

Thank you again everyone for your suggestions, your expertise and your time. It is greatly appreciated. I love this forum, there is such a wealth of helpful information, and since I don't know anyone who owns a mastiff, not even close to one, reading through all the threads helps me out; and sometimes I spend hours on here just reading to gather as much knowledge as I can. All in all, I WILL be much more vigilant now, this seriously was a learning experience.

 

[khplaw]

I was actually thinking of getting a nylon prong collar cover, or a black Herm Sprengler stainless steel prong collar. Black is the NEW chrome! Far away no one would notice it was a prong, since I'll make sure, from now on, that no one gets that close. Also, I was looking at something like a Pro Agitation Collar w/ Handle to have better control. What are your thoughts on that? Haha, khplaw, I think Hermes does make some men's items, but I think fragrance mostly.

I have the flat black Sprenger collar as well. $$$$$ She walks on that most of the time (I call it her stealth collar!) but in situations where the chrome is needed it is on instead. Highly visible. Right there in your face.

An agitation collar will give you the short distance you are looking for but may not allow you to maintain your hold on the dog! I know, right? When they outweigh you sometimes leverage is what is needed. The head collar people have mentioned works like an elevator bit if you know horses; it offers control but long term? Not sure.

Since Sophie is a "style and fragrance maven" I think I will stalk the thrift shops and vintage stores for a lovely Hermes scarf!

Hope your finger heals quickly. At least it is the appropriate finger!