The Types of CCs. "Traditional" v "Non-Traditional" or American v Euro ?

Discussion in 'Cane Corso' started by BattleDax, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. BattleDax

    BattleDax Well-Known Member

    Hi all,

    As some of you know, I am considering a CC for my next dog after my current working Doberman passes away (which is not imminent or anything).

    I am doing early research. I don't want to start a controversy of any kind. I am thirsty for knowledge.

    I have so many questions, and am perusing Mastiff-forum and learning bit by bit.

    Someone let me know if I am doing something wrong here, but I'm pasting in some verbiage from a CC breeder's website. Maybe a mod can tell me if I should give an attribution as to which breeder wrote it if I'm violating a rule or just general copyright-type stuff. I know over on the Doberman forum of which I'm a longtime member, the mentioning of the name of breeders is uncommon, so I am trying to tread lightly and to not be seen as calling anyone into question.

    Okay, so I'm quite confused on what seems to be a number of differing types and looks to the CC breed. I can expand on this later, but here is what this one breeder wrote: Please offer any thoughts!

    "...
    Did you know that the breed actually comprises two distinct bloodlines? It’s true. Not all Corsos are bred equally. While there is only one AKC-recognized Cane Corso breed (registered as the 165th official breed in the United States just nine years ago in 2010), many Corso breeders and enthusiasts hold that there are in fact two separate lineages that have developed over the years: the traditional Cane Corso and the nontraditional Cane Corso.

    ‘Traditional’ Cane Corso refers to the population of Corsos descended directly and exclusively from those first dogs that came to the United States from Italy back in 1989. Sometimes referred to as ‘all American,’ these dogs are the continuation of the old Italian bloodline—these are the true Corsos. We at Americana Cane Corso are proud of our commitment to breeding nothing but this pure, traditional line.

    Traditional Cane Corsos are more imposing than their nontraditional counterparts due to their impressive musculature, bigger bones and generally larger frame, typical of most mastiff breeds. In fact, a strong skeleton is one of the trademarks of the breed. These dogs are the big, athletic linebackers of the canine world: a.k.a. the perfect guard dog with a loving disposition to boot. Traditional Corsos have long, coarse coats and big, white teeth reminiscent of a wolf.

    On the other hand are the nontraditional Corsos. Like all-American Corsos, the nontraditional Cane Corso bloodline was also derived from those first few Corsos to arrive in America from Italy, but that’s where the similarities end. While Corso purists were focusing on keeping the future generations as ‘Corso’ as possible, there were others who thought it best to augment the then-shallow Cane Corso gene pool. So it was that nontraditional Corso breeders began incorporating other breeds into their Corso populations, producing litters of mixed genealogy. Great Danes and Boxers were two of the most commonly chosen breeds for this process. As a result of mixed breeding, nontraditional Cane Corsos exhibit a wider variance in physical appearance and temperament than traditional Corsos. Additionally, nontraditional Corsos tend to be taller, skinnier, and more agile than their traditional cousins, though not necessarily more athletic (think defensive backs as opposed to linebackers). ..."
     
  2. BattleDax

    BattleDax Well-Known Member

    D'oh! I just saw that I went ahead and inadvertently pasted in the name of the breeder anyway. :)
     
  3. Patrick

    Patrick Well-Known Member



    Wow.... where to start...lol
    The person is somewhat telling the truth depending on whom you believe.... some say the Original imports were mixed with the Original Neopalitain Mastiff( without all the overlapping wrinkles) by Mike Sr...... his dogs are more muscular, thicker looking Corsos...

    Other people have cut the Corso with Great Danes for taller height... some cut the Corso with the Boxer to create friendlier SHOW dogs for competition. I have a Corso cut with Boxer, and I have one that is probably what some would call an Original from the Scandifio bloodline.... This bloodline is really sought after by people looking for the So Called Original bloodline. They tend to be more naturally aggressive, and more of a guard dog. My female is 8 months old and has the Scandifio bloodline. I have found her to be much more aggressive than my 22 month old Male Corso. Females generally are more aggressive and not as NEEDY as the males. My male Corso ALWAYS looks for approval, and with approval he wants love...lol
    My male had to be TRAINED to guard ( remember he is cut with boxer), and has since become aggressive with protection training... I believe cutting the Corso with Boxer made them less aggressive and more loving... My male is about 115 lbs. And my female is almost 80 lbs. At 8 months...

    Most Corso owners don't like to admit the Corso has been cut as much as it has... they will talk of a PURE Corso... I would say over 90% have been cut some down the bloodline... that is one of the main reasons AKC stopped accepting the Corso a couple of years ago if they are Not from out of the country or their parents were Not Already registered by the AKC.... ICCF is the Largest Corso registration period.....but many want AKC or Dual registration.... I have 8 generations on my female... her grand parents and great grandparents had Dual registration.. but her parents only had ICCF so she can't be registered with AKC... I am cool with it.. when people see her.. they Know she is no joke.
     
  4. BattleDax

    BattleDax Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Patrick! That was very helpful information. I read it, of course, like the day you wrote it but I'm just now replying because I decided to take a new look at the Scandifio website and I emailed them today but I got a delivery failure message. So it seems the email address on their website is bad.

    I actually have the feeling I may be wasting my time looking into Sacndifio because they sound like such an exclusive breeder that I wouldn't have much luck getting a pup from them, and probably couldn't justify the price which I have the feeling is significantly more than other breeders. Of course, I don't know this, but I have to guess. I mean, when you look at all their boasts, and also look at their celebrity clientele list I think I'm going to find a price of a significantly more than $2500 - $3000 which would be the most I could get my wife to go along with.

    Any thoughts on this? Of course, feel free to PM if you'd prefer.

    Thanks!
     
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  5. Dstack

    Dstack Well-Known Member

    Battledax- have you ever considered a Boerboel? Not sure where you are located. If you can find a very reputable breeder and as you probably know- there are few-this type dog compares to none. We’ve had Dobermans , black mouth curs, and a Shepard mixes. The Boerboel is a beauty in all ways. All the best on finding a match! Keep us posted!
     
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  6. Patrick

    Patrick Well-Known Member

     
  7. Patrick

    Patrick Well-Known Member

    Hey Dstack,
    I like the Boerboel also. Its like a larger version of the Corso. I looked into getting one before I got my Corsos. I wanted a Chestnut deep red colored female. I researched them for about a year, and then tried to find the color I wanted.... no dice...I then saw the Black Boerboel....... I couldn't figure out if the black color REALKY finally got accepted... of course those that produce the black boerboel say yes , but too many say no. The big thing for me was all the black ones seemed smaller than the other colored boerboels.... that led me to the Corso. I think they are both Great breeds !!! I actually found one breeder that mixes Corso, Boerboel, Pressa, and Great Dane !! That was WAY TOO MUCH for me....lol. There is no way of telling what comes out of that mix mentally, or emotionally..... all you know for sure is BE CAREFUL !!! LOL
     
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  8. BattleDax

    BattleDax Well-Known Member

    Thanks for asking! Yes, I very much have considered a Boerboel. It is sitting at number 2 or 3 on my breed list, in fact.

    I have a lot to learn about these Mastiff breeds. Honestly, I have been concerned that a Boerboel might not be reliable with my family. I hope I'm wrong about this. I do know that if the worst were to happen, I would have a harder time physically subduing a 160+ lb. dog than a 120+ lb. dog. Feel free to reassure me on the reliability of the breed.

    With the Corso, I have the sense that the breed is popular enough that it's been watered down to a point that it's probably less sharp and more domesticated so to speak. (I'm writing in a hurry here before I need to tuck in the daughter). Also, with the Corso, I get to have cropped ears and I love cropped ears.

    I actually do know of a reputable Boerboel breeder and they are located just outside the city where my in-laws live so it would be kind of a dream. I have emailed them, and they said to call and leave a message, and they would return my call, but they did not.

    By the way, spots 3 and 4 on my list are occupied by Black Russian Terrier and Bullmastiff, and maybe #5 would be American Bulldog. All breeds have their downsides, and with the BRT, it's the coat care and more importantly the fact that JQP will think it's simply a large black Doodle. What kind of deterrent factor is that?!?
     
  9. timmy59

    timmy59 Well-Known Member

    My only input is we LOVED our 2 boerboels and for 12 + years they never presented any issues that weren't easily nipped in the bud.. Our's were farm dogs and it was important that they got along with all the farm animals and they did.. The one I'll post almost nurtured any critter put in front of her.. I put a baby bunny in front of her was she was laying down and she licked and loved the bunny.. If we could have afforded the price tag, it'd be a boerboel in our yard.. The pics show 160 lbs of loveable child protection.. You would not raise a finger to that child if you didn't belong to the family.. Those 2 were velcro'ed when they were together..
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Dstack

    Dstack Well-Known Member

    I agree with you- all breeds have their down
    BattleDax- I really thought what you wrote was so well thought. Honestly, it’s a gut feeling for a fit with family. My opinion. Size, temperament, and frankly- where your comfort zone starts and ends. I will say this about our Boerboel- she was given to us for companionship, activity, family. She had siblings that were more apt to guard/protecting/work and of course-show. BUT- you just really never know. Bottom line- If you’re confident and comfortable with a CC, than you’ll find a great companion. I’d seriously recommend visiting your local reputable Breeder for Boerboel. You just may fall in love. Keep us posted. Oh- and PS. Not much subduing between 120lbs and 160lbs. LOL!
     
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  11. BattleDax

    BattleDax Well-Known Member

    @timmy59 , and @Dstack , both wonderful accounts of awesome family companion Boerboels! Thank you! That's heart-melting, those pics of your Boerboel with your child there! Yes, these big tough dogs often have such soft sides. We fostered a beautiful 68 lb. American Bulldog / Pit Bull cross. We wound up thinking we were going to keep her. My 4 or 5 year old daughter would lay against the dog's belly and read her books. This was a fairly intense dog too. Of course, we always watched the two of them together and I felt quite on edge letting my little daughter lay on her like that.

    The dog we had prior to this was a working Doberman who (corroborated by the breeder) probably had a screw loose. He would unpredictably go after people, including my wife on three separate occasions. Fortunately, if they had the instinct to jerk away from his snapping jaws they didn't get bit (to his credit). A young child would not have that instinct or reaction time and that was an extremely harrowing thought. We had to keep him separated from our little daughter, and on one occasion I saw him stiffen up and get that far-away look in his eye toward her. I stepped in and averted it. I did, and it saddens me a bit to this day, have to "alpha roll" this +/- 90 lb. working Doberman when he went after my wife. I'm not a real big guy, but strong. I just don't think there would be any "alpha rolling" either a 120 lb. or a 160 lb. dog – yes, I think you're right. NOT that I ever want to have to do that.

    To that point, I believe I need more information on just how people physically interact with Mastiff-type breeds. Yes, I totally understand the ways (some subtle) in which a dog owner shows the dog in everyday life that they are the lowest member of the pack; but I have also felt free to be somewhat physical with my Dobes (not talking about harsh corrections here necessarily, rather, things like kneeing into them when they intentionally put themselves in my way to try to get what they want; or just firmly directing them with a leash). I have the feeling I will have to refine my training and handling to accommodate a much heavier animal. I know I still need to assert myself at pack leader and top "dog."
     
  12. BattleDax

    BattleDax Well-Known Member

    You got me thinking about the black Boerboel. I had written them off after reading one site that said "If it's black, it's not a Boerboel." I looked into it further and I understand the controversy now. I found an article in Modern Molosser online magazine that explained it all. Some hold that it had to be that other breeds were mixed in to get all these black Boerboels we are seeing now. A recessive gene cannot account for all these black dogs. That makes a lot of sense to me. So I see how Boerboel purists would object to that, and it also gives me pause, as I wonder how it might affect the predictability of temperament. What's more, as a Doberman breed purist, I am being hypocritical in entertaining a black Boerboel. When I hear of folks wanting a Dobe, but wanting it their way, I think to myself: Get out of my breed! Go get another breed! The Dobermann was meant to be a black dog with cropped ears and docked tail. Yes, the Reds (Browns as they are called in the UK) showed up just a few years after the Blacks, and I owned a Red; but I am an extreme breed purist. So yeah, definitely being hypocritical to maybe want a black Boerboel.

    When you say the black might run smaller, that actually appeals to me. Although I am almost always concerned about winding up with a dog that is too small, I actually find the Boerboel to be too heavy. I don't want a 160+ pound dog. The breeder I live fairly close to has some that are 190+. That's just not right for my lifestyle.

    I will say, though, that most of the black Boerboels that I have seen pics of online haven't been very attractive conformationally, so that is a problem.
     
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  13. Patrick

    Patrick Well-Known Member

    I agree.... the Black Boerboel isn't very conformationally sound looking to me either. The heads aren't right to me. I think the Boerboel is a Great breed, and I was attracted to having either a dark chestnut red, or black one...... but once I saw so the black ones.... they just didn't have the conformation as the other colors. To me, and I am just speaking for myself.... I am not sure if I ever saw a black one that did have the conformation.... and thats not say that I have seen them All.
     
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