probably stupid fila question... socializing a fila

[alwcm4]

I'm probably going to be bombarding you Fila folks with what will sound like dumb quesitons for the forseeable future. I'm just enthralled with them as a breed. I'm an EM person, so they are a whole new planet for me.

Here's my first dumb question. So I understand what the breed is and what it's for. My question is, can you socialize a Fila. I don't mean desensatize it to the point of it accepting strangers. I mean can it be trained to listen to verbal commands when on leash around strangers. If I wanted to walk it on a leash in the vicinity of strangers (no actual contact or engagement) could I train the dog to listen to me if I gave the command to 'not attack' or react. If I wanted it to be a guardian, but also a trained and decently obedient dog. I don't want it lunging at people every time it sees them, only if they approach me. I suck at wording, am I making any sense? I would one day love to own a Fila, when the situation is right, but I'm worried too that travel, vetcare, etc would become completely unmanagable if the dog had a true Fila temperamet.

Thanks for any input.

 

[alwcm4]

wow typos^^^ sorry! Also wanted to add that I understand that every dog is different, so any answers will be generic. I'm just trying to get a feel for things at this point.

 

[angelbears]

As with everything Fila. You will get two opposite opinions. So here is mine. An excellent trainer can do a lot more with their dogs. Some can and will take them out in a more social environment. The argument is that they have soft dogs. In some cases I believe this is true. I also believe a truly gifted trainer can get the results your talking about.

I wouldn't dare take my male out in public. He is much stronger than I am and if he wants to go, we go. He will go off if people come close. My female is smaller and not half as strong. I can hold her back if I need to but then again I don't take that chance. I hate training and it shows with my dogs on leash. On the other hand, they are excellent house dogs. They don't tear up, fully house broken, just a dream to live with.

Most Fila people do agree that that if a proper temperament Fila perceives a threat to his family, he is going to take care of it and it could be very quick and decisive. That is why most don't take theirs out and about.

 

[dogman#1]

The only stupid/dumb question is the question unasked... Training can mask genetic characteristics and diminish them somewhat but training will NEVER take out what the good lord put in. You can socialize to hell and back and that dog may even tolerate people petting it however a wrong move, noise or a combination of different things WILL trigger an instinctual behavior... when a dog is in enough stress it will ALWAYS fall back on instinct and not training and that is where the problem comes in. For those that "trust" their filas around people 100% of the time have 1 of 3 things .. 1) not a fila 2) a fila without proper ojeriza or 3) A dead fila. out of the 3 the most dangerous in #2. A Fila w/o proper Ojeriza is a furry time bomb IMO and i dont care how many times the person says i can touch it I will refuse and keep my distance.. If, even a trained fila w/ proper temp and nerves feels you are in danger it WILL disregard your commands. Now I am not saying to never socialize your fila infact the opposite should be done. I say socialize to hell and back as well as obedience train them just dont expect that training to overcome instinct... This goes for any dog not just filas.. you let a bloodhound loose with a good scent and he is gone regardless of training, a terrier on an area with soil? there is now a hole, a tiger with a bunny...etc. They are easy dogs to own because you KNOW what they are capable of and what they will do...not because you think they had enough training.

 

[chuckorlando]

We had bout 60 folks over yesterday and bout half them was kids. Kona is fine more or less as long as no one fucks with her. It's rather amusing as she is like having a gator on a lead. Everyone just stares in amazment from a safe distance. Rvryone repeats how they wish they could touch her, or get close. One person even made the comment that she did not look aggressive with the droopy face and curved tail laying down.... Then he moved his hand just a bit to fast and she went from that non aggressive dog to bite your ass dog. This happened maybe 3 or 4 times all day. This what Juan is talking about though. Just a precieved threat. But keep in mind folks have to stay at a safe distance at all times just for this reason. Kona is super socialized. We take her o all camping trips, holiday trips, get togethers. She has been exposed to hundreds of people in all kinda situations. But she can never ever be off lead or folks to close. There has never been a time she was out with us that something did not make her try to get someone. Kids are the worst as they move fast all the time.

So can a fila be around people and not be crazy? Yes. Will that fila always be one slight mistake away from biting? Yes. As the owner you need to set up your own controls per the situation. Like a muzzle, a strike zone no one can enter, when to hold the lead and when to hold the collar, and when the stress may be to much and the dog needs a break.

The biggest help here was telling every person as they entered the property " at no time for no reason do you mes with her" Dont stare at her, dont try to touch her, dont move fast around her, dont scream, and more or less allow her to be left the hell alone. And no one can walk up to us at all. We need to approach you.

 

[alwcm4]

Thanks for the input, I would never get one just to try and train it out of it's temperament, that's not really what I meant, and think that's kind of how I came across. So in general they don't just attack any stranger they see? There is usually a provacation or percieved threat to make them react uncontrollably. If I were to have the dog on leash and someone was ignoring me 30 feet away the dog would be congnisent of the person, but not like lunging and pulling trying to rip their throats out?

 

[angelbears]

If I were to have the dog on leash and someone was ignoring me 30 feet away the dog would be congnisent of the person, but not like lunging and pulling trying to rip their throats out?

IMO, that would be the well trained Fila. Thankfully, my male doesn't have the best eyesight but if he sees them, he is going to at least alert to them, usually with a low huff, if they are approaching, the closer they get the more ramped up he is going to get.

I understand your not talking about training it out of them. I think that we are trying to say that even the best trained Fila has his own mind and if there is a threat he will react. From a distance a well trained fila should be calm and stable.

 

[chuckorlando]

Kona tends to be worse off leas than on it. If she is runing the yard and see's anyone anywhere she will bark or what not. On a leash she stays fairly calm. The problem is what they precieve as a threat. It dont have to be real jut what they think is real. And at my house with all those folks it's outside and a lotta space. Not really a crowd. And it's for short periods as she dont like people and it's obvious. But if you socialize alot all the time and are able to control the circumstances then yea you can keep everyone safe and not be locked away from the world.

 

[fila4me]

I have had Filas for over 20 yrs.I agree with info given so far.The main thing to remember is that the purpose of "socializing"is to get your Fila used to all kinds of noises,sudden noises,unexpected noises.In doing this you are hopefully helping your dog not overreact to a sudden noise while out in public,a car backfiring,screaming children(if not raised w/kids)traffic,etc. I personally walk my dogs down a very busy main street,I do the occasional stop and sit,then down all the time having my dog(s) have eye contact with me.I also live near an elementary school,so I take my dogs to the parking lot near the fenced playground and work them in obedience.I work on down stays and recalls while on long lines.The kids playing are a wonderful distraction and no kids can get hurt being behind the fence.Now this does not mean my girls can go to my daughter's soccer or softball games.That is totally different,before the game my Flower(as a young dog)was fine as long as no one came near.But,once my daughter went on the field and the pitcher threw the ball to her or on the soccer field.Flower went NUTS!!!She,in her Fila genetics,just knew my child was being hurt and MUST be protected at any costs!!Needless to say,she had to be put in the car and my car had to be moved to the other end of the parking lot. Now the funny side to this,when said games were over Flower pinned my daughter down and sniffed every last fiber of her looking for anything off!But, back to being out in public,even my most sound Filas will on more than one occassion,decide that they know best and who or what is a threat and will do what needs to be done to take care of said threat.That is why,we as Fila owners are so protective of our breed.You just really need to learn to read your dog and know what are the dogs triggers(for the most part) and be ready to exit when you sense ANY type of stress on your dog.Flower, I can take anywhere as long as no one pets her.Now Maddie,at 22 wks that is not gonna happen.She is trying to figure out her temp and right now it is telling her to just growl at everyone and everyone is a threat.That is unless they have been around since I got her at 10 wks.Flower can go to the vet without a muzzle,we sit at the back and she is on a pinch collar and a 6 inch lead.Maddie,hahaha,she has to get her shots in her crate and if she were to need something more will have to be muzzled.hope I made sense written out as it did in my head!

 

[alwcm4]

^^^^ this is great info. After reading the responses I think what we're all really talking about is a 'stable' Fila, if words can describe it. I'm starting to get a better feel for them. Anyone have any input on females vs males? I know in EM's and dogs in general females tend to be more protective.

 

[chuckorlando]

Kona is a straight up bitch. ahahahaha

 

[fila4me]

females are NASTY!!!

 

[angelbears]

Females are nastier and seem quicker to fire off.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

No matter what species lol

 

[tb44]

Could not agree more.

No matter what species lol

 

[LauraR]

Could not agree more.

While I can't comment on the Fila aspect, I can agree that out of every dog I've owned, with the larger dogs(can't include the Bichon and Yorkie, they can't protect anything haha) the females have ALWAYS been more protective. The male ChowChow I had was the only one that came close to being as protective as the girls.

 

[tojvan]

hmmm... males are more laid back., but are preffered in personal protection cause they can take more of a beating. Both have their own pros and cons

 

[dogman#1]

Females tend to mature more quickly mentaly than the males and usually show temperament sooner than their male litter mates. Females are smaller so easier for you to control. Females tend to be more dominant w/ other dogs... a fully matured male with proper temp is a very scary thing though. BTW When I say dominant I do not mean aggressive I mean in charge.

 

[chuckorlando]

Females tend to mature more quickly mentaly than the males and usually show temperament sooner than their male litter mates. Females are smaller so easier for you to control. Females tend to be more dominant w/ other dogs... a fully matured male with proper temp is a very scary thing though. BTW When I say dominant I do not mean aggressive I mean in charge.

Ye they are. Kona is deff the manwomen round here