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Presa canario mother bred with red bone blood hound

_Cynic_

New Member
Was wondering if the puppies would turn out looking like a Brazilian mastiff or be similar to the Cuban bloodhounds. Have a 3 year old dawn brindle presa and want to breed her a few times. Starting with the hound from Tennessee then maybe a cane corso for her second litter. She’s 105 lbs and wouldn’t hurt a fly. Can’t find any pics online of what they might look like but I’m imagining a mastiff with big ears and good nose. Pop is really pretty red
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
There's no way to tell with a mix. All of the pups can look different and end up with the worst in each breed. Of course they can end up with the best too, but there's really no way to know. I'm curious why you want to breed mixes? Why do you want to breed at all? What is your goal?
 
If your Presa lacks temperament, what are you using her to bring to the mix? The answer that springs to my mind is durability...and I would guess she would do that. Are you thinking that the physique of the Presa and the prey drive of the hound could make a strong hunter...I could see that....might be a good litter for hogs...or bear ...or cats....idk...there's lots of possibility here....I need to know more to realy evaluate your plan.
1) are you thinking of this as a one off litter or since you were speaking of another breeding with a Corso are you working on a long term plan to create a dog a generation or three down the line. This point is important because with a down the line goal we have to be more careful to preserve what your wanting to bring to the table in the end in each generation. In a one off breeding often the thinking is let's see what this makes? And that's cool...maby you get some that are better than ether parents at task x , maby unexpectedly they're better at task y...maby there good pets and hthsts it...mabyyou have vague log term goals, in that case ...well back in the day they'd do what was called a test breeding...breedem...keep the whole litter or split it with another breeder who's agreed to raise and test them the same way and then carry out your plan...test at adult hood and see what you have...if you have anything you like your already ahead as you can point and say ...I made that ...this is how I propose to make it better...

2) do you know " she wouldn't hurt a fly" from testing, or do you mean she's gentle with you and your family? Are you saying she lacks courage, lacks drive, lacks territorial instinct, lacks the nervous system to handle arousal, is hard wired to flight instead of fight,or just that she's not default aggressive when she's in the presence of a bigger dog..meaning you her master...this is the most important question to answer as to whether she should nbe bred at all. Evan if the answer would keep her from being bred as a Presa, it might not stand in the way of her hybridized well...or it might...depending on what you mean and the goal of the hybridicourse.

3)are you prepared to keep and raise a majority of the litter or split it with the studs owner working togather to determine likely keepers from culls...this is a misunderstood part of crosses...you can't realistically expect to pick a dog at 8 weeks old and know what your geting....if your breeding for a goal beyond pups to sell, meaning if you have goals for a dog or dogs from this litter, or for a dog you intend to make with the dog you select...you realy should , and since you own the bitch you can, keep a few at least in the hopes one will be the breeding quality cross your after...you can give them out as CO owns and I've done that for economic reasons before, but be aware that the differences in food, exposure to stimuli, and training will be different and make choosing who to move forward with more uncertain. If your envisioning a large scale program down the road this might be ok...but if your thinking of a half dozen dogs or less in Gen 3 it will help to keep all the most likely candidates at 12 or 16 weeks, don't try to select at 8 weeks...if your not selecting for color alone your unlikely to pick correctly, precisely if your not using a cross you've watched develop before...11_12 weeks is realy as early as you should let anything that isn't obviously a cull go...not withstanding what you promised the studs owner of coyrse. That's not to say you should keep them all to 2 yr old...as it becomes obvious they're inferior for your purposes you can sell, or adopt them out. But don't rush it, you'll want to idealy end up with 3 but if 2 are head and shoulders above go with 2, but they should be of opposite sexes if at all possible...of course if you fail to get a legit prospect of one sex you can repeat the breeding and just keep from the sex you did strike gold with. I would repeat it as soon as possible though.
4) what traits in particular are you trying to capture...this is important, it will determine so much of the selection testing...
5) I take it it's not a Redbone x bloodhound mix in general your looking to breed with...it's THATredbone xbloodhound in particular...this is good, it shows your looking at the traits carried by individual dogs. Not just breed tendencies....do you already have the Corso picked as well?
6) if I'm correct in assuming that you have a long term plan ...however vague, tentative, and based on a lot of its, it is, my advise , as a man who bred a line out of cast-off problem dogs, rescues and dogs saved from the needle....don't be to quick to letem go , but don't be sentimental when they show you they ain't that dog ...remove ythem from the program...remember a breeding program isn't based on a training program...a good trainer can make a shit dog pass a test that would challenge a good dog without training by teaching to the test...it is important your testing the dogs not there training when doing selection...or rather it's important the dogs all get the same training.
Now I'll lay out some ways you could proceed
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Your first breeding breed to the Redbone x bloodhound dog that obviously captures your imagination...im imagining he's big like a bloodhound and that the red bone tightened him up just a bit. A little more graclile and less skin so the muscle pops more to the eye and probly made him more hot nosed...im no houndsman but I am a dogmsn so I know a little...
You get a litter of say 10, 9 live, you give the studs owner a pup or two, say two we don't want to be greedy, so you have 7...keep till 11_12 weeks old
If you want to do volhard at 8 weeks go ahead...it won't tell you who'll be a keeper but it might revel one who definitely will not be early)
Now at 12 weeks( or 16weeks if your realy dedicated to enshureingvyou keep the best you can get)...spend some time doing what ever test you can think off pursuant to your goals and to being a solid dog all the way around...you'll want to test starttle response, how long dose the pup stay crouched? Dose he run to investigate when he owes out out of the crouch? Or dose he look for a place to hide and stay there? The nod go's to the dog who comes up out the crouch and runs barking to investigate....but other responses don't fail him except stay in crouch showing fear...pet home that dog asap...next try this one I learned from Manuel curto jr...pick dog up by ears and tail or ears and back skin...any dog crying out or unduly protesting fails...out of the program for low pain tolerance, week nervous system and touch sensitivity...I heard old pit dogmen say just a tail or just one ear...an Evan harder test but perhaps unessecary...unless your thinking cat and bear dogs ...then go with pit bull test...a more gentle one is included in the volhard..pinch between toes and note reaction...I'd go with Curtis version unless you plan on hunting bear or cat...and I'd advise you to consider add ING a plot from cat and bear lines to your plans if that's the case.
If you want to test scenting I'd take some balony and dragit around the yard on a string and hide it somewhere...a wood pile...a rock pile...under the frame on an old car...now get the pups and givem a little baloney each near where the trail starts...first ones to find it win....
If you want to test prey drive put a rag on a string..ad a stick if you oerfer...runit around them and make chase it ...the ones that go for movement the fastest have the lowest threshold to prey drive...I'd repeat this test every few days , it takes some a Lil while to catch on, but once they get it there good...if we were breeding guardian mastiff we could get by on raw aggression and defense drive...fir hunting, sport dogs, ect you need prey drive...presas have notoriously variable levels of it as they mmature...so don't be so quick to fail them for low p Rey but be aware that if it doesn't pick up you may have to remove them for this flaw.
Have a stranger walk up menacing KY, idealy surprising the pups only 10 or 15 foot away..this will test defense alittle and at least show you who might not have a very high threshold to this drivr...the responses of come forward barking, hold ground barking and back awY barking in that order are signs of easily accessed defense, with indifference and curious exp m oration showing ether higher threshold or lack of defense...higher threshold isn't bad just different, in fact many sport dog folk say it shows potential to develop fight drive....lack of defense drive or hardwired flight over fight isn't desirable in any dog ...it will leD to fear biting when pressure is applied....but you can separate the good bad and ugly latter make a note of it if hunting is your goal...if your think protection as a final goal, then this drive is much mire important to tease out .....
If you can get them chasing the rag in prey drive run with it draging behind you just out of thete reach...the ones who chase the longest get the nod as hunters for shure, and may be easier to do ipo training with as well....the untrained natural protector response presas are known for is based on defense and isn't fail or pass detectable in many cases till after one year old, stoll it makes sense to test monthly and keep nootes.. these will help in future generations.
Now just watch them play...who's geting picked on who are the Billy's..who rises to the challenge of rough play and who demure when it's rougher than they like...pay attention to that stuff....finally try coaxing them to come to you...it's a blessing if you don't have to teach a dog recall , some find it natural...some look at you like you got three heads...make a note....im shure I'm leaving out a lot but I think you get the idea..........
So you've tested your seven pups...did any consistently come up last? If the same dog or dogs came up last...pet home them....so now let's say we got 6........
Some time around this time check the bite ...you want scissors or reverse scissors, significant under or over bites get pet homes....pay attention to there gaits, and if the joints all point the same way ...any easy west? You can live with it on a close quarter guardian or dedicated catch dog ...but a finder catcher, or bay dog can't have easy westy....if it is otherwise a promising prospect and your feeding mainly kibble, especially grocery store low quality kibble as the main food you may be able to fix it by switching to a meat diet...I have successfully done this it can work...but you have to weight the pros and cons...if your not fairly shure that dog is gona be a keeper on drives and courage and has a good structure otherwise I'd pethome it...when I did it it was because that pup had a significantly more robust skelaton than any of its litter mates and a large skull with prominent ridge for muscle attachments and a long but wide muzzle with perfect scissors....it was at its bone what I needed out of that litter...to this day his pasterns are week and he's never been a good hunter...if he can catch it in the first 100 yards he won't get it...but he's the strongest dog I've ever owned and the strongest one I've worked with under 200 # at around 120# so if glad I did...use your judgement, once your feeding him different, your keepingvhim till a year old at least because further testing against hisvlittermates will be riggers on his favor, so no point in testing hom till you can remove the advantage...
Im shure you can come up with other tests as well....you can walk th4ough a pile of pups wearing jeans and the ones hanging on the longest have the best grip...important for hog hunting, sport dogs and an advantage but not absolutely requires for real world defense...credit where its due...I picked that up from Lee Robinson.
So now you will repeat your testing in a month or two, and again, ect. Anyone falling behind across the board or showing physical inferiority with out making up for it in drives gets pet homed...
You will hopefully have 3 or 4 good candidates at one year of age. These are idealy evenly split between the sexes...it's OK if there not...but it would be time to redo the breeding if one sex is not represented at all....
Now, assuming you have both sexes, you'll just hang onto that 3 or 4 dogs and roll over in your mind which you think will best pass your desired traits...your probly gona use them all...but the best two your gona breed togather on there next heat....that correct bro sis breeding , witch is not usually the best choice for a litter, but we're trying to build a hybrid line and this will be the fastest way to do it, and do it in as few years and as few litters as we can and still have a stable and semi homogeneous genetic recipe when we get there.
Let's say we have 1 male and two females , this is better than the opposite, it's not so hard to find a stud but borrowing a womb is a hard sell...
So breed best sis to best bro....repeat the testing procedures for this litter, you may. Notice a greater variation in ability in this litter...that's good and can be expected. Your looking for the best ones ...do it the same way as before but as they grow feel free to make the tests harder.
Breed you Presa to that Corso you liked now if you still want to use him. If you want to stagger
 
If you want to stagger these two breeding by a heat go ahead it won't significantly hold up your final dogs.
I'd take the unbred female you selected to a dog you pick based on what you think you're line might be week in after reevaluating your goals and your three already chosen foundation dogs. If you are concerned with the joints and structure a gamedog from working stock ether box or hogs is a good one, if your thinking protection you could go with a hotter Presa or a different Corso, orneo, or go the other way with a Mal or dutchie or you could split the difference and go with a Scott bulldog. If your thinking you need more drive and need more athleticism a dogo might be the way forward. If your lacking size you could go with a em or neo, if you want a long lived huge healthy and very defense driven dog the central Asian might be your ace in the hole, but at the expense of a loss of biddability and prey drive...if these are hunting dogs I wouldn't use one if there big wild looking pets with a protection edge go ahead.if you got plenty of size but want more biddability a heeler might be your ticket they bring tons of handler focus biddability and I think they add more durability and toughness than anything except a wolf crusher lgd or gambled apbt, but they cost you size, a Mal will give you Evan more drive but maby not quote as much rustistity and durability, but won't cost as much height, . I'd caution you to look for dogs bred for a porpose...Evan if your after a pet in the end...they ate smarter more healthy and come with more solid structure than pet bred dogs. If you are over sized a border collie might Evan be a possibility, but the cost in durability is significant, ofcouse if you like the hound look and want protection ability and scenting from another source the Fila, assuming that you can find one who'll stud to a non Fila, is a great choice, but I don't know your tolerance for a litter of stranger hating Fila crosses , they are likely to be dogs you can't free roam unless you have a lot of land and good fences, they come in various sizes and levels of ojezeria so you can kinda adjust, another thought as i mentioned earlyer is the plot hound, specificly ftom bear and cat lines, if you dont mind dominance issues rotties and boviers are good, giant snauzzers brts, and offcourse bandogs...ll depends on final gosls Look around and see what's available. If you tell me what your missing I can point you tword a good candidate most likely. But without a list of things the dog must be able to do I can only offer "if" suggestions. This breeding isn't 100% nessecary and if you only got one suitable female you'd of course omit it...but it will widen your genetic base a bit and likely save having to do it latter, while freeing up your back up female to be sold or traded to another breeder after this litter if space is limited and you don't live where these dogs can free roam. If you can't find a likely stud who carries what you forsee the final product lacking omit this breeding with the knowledge it may be nessecary latter.
If you decide to do this breeding then follow the procedure right along side the Corso Presa litter..depending on the final goal you may emphasize the results of certain tests over others.
So after you have tested and selected your Corso litter down to three or four dogs you'll breed best to best and repeat like your hound Presa litter....what ever you have extra from Presa Corso you'll select your third litter down to one of the opposite sex ...you guessed it put these two togather as well...you can bro sis them as well if you arnt tired of fucking with puppies by now.
Now take your best three including at least 1 from each sex from bro sis Presa hound. Your best 3 from Presa Corso bro sis in opposite proportion of sexes and one of each sex from litter 3....you have eight dogs yo base your line in...you could add your best two from first Gen p c and p h and make it 10 to be shure your keeping enough genetic diversity...by now testing these dogs at the tasks you've decided to use them for and breeding the best most often but including the others occasionally for genetic health you can now refine your line and have the stating seed of a breed of dogs if you like.. there's more to it than this but if you realy do all this I'd be happy to help you with the rest as well, and really after this much breeding you'll have the tools to figure a lot of it out on your on....start out with best Presa hound bro sis to best Presa Corso bro sis of opposite sex and I think you'll be surprised at how good for what ever task your breeding for they turn out to be.
The bro siting " purifying the blood" trick I picked up from old pit dogmen, they swear by it , however I don't think it wise to repeat it for 2 or 3 generations after each cross if your breeding anything except pits as most other breeds have many more negative recessive lurking and were dealing with 4 or maby 5 or more breeds in this case...but remember curto says 22 breeds were to his know l age used in rthe canarie islands during the recovery of the Presa, and 19 were used in rhe creation of the dogo...so what I've laid out while it seams a gigantic task is but a fraction of what has been done in the past....read up about red star kennel in user and see a herculean task...just saying....now go breed them dogs, dogman.