"Not for first time owners!"

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

"Not for first time owners!"

I am putting this in the breeder section as this is where you normally hear it from but I am wondering everyone's take on this particular phrase when they hear it in regards to their breed of choice.

I'll post my opinion so and you can agree or disagree...

I disagree with saying this to puppy buyers. Do I think that all people are qualified to own my breed with no "working" or "guardian" breed experience. No. In most litters there are some hard asses, some middle of the road and some softer dogs. I think that if someone comes to a breeder that has done their research, shows committment to want to train and work their dog, shows and eagerness to work with a breeder that those people are more than qualified to be an owner of a puppy of their chosing. This does not mean that they would end up with my hard asses or even my mid range but perhaps one of my softer dogs if I thought they passed my screening. This way if they do well and they gain the experience then next time (if they want the breed again) perhaps I have a repeat customer and they are more able to handle a mid to hard ass dog.

I dislike breeders that absolutely refuse to sell to first time puppy owners just because they are first timers and I think that this in part doesn't help with the BYBer situations. I mean lets face it... if they want it then they generally are not going to take no for an answer, especially if they are that committed and have put all that time and research into the breed. So they either go to another breeder that maybe is a little open minded or they take their chances with a BYBer I would certainly hope that they would go to another breeder that cares for the breed but sometimes the worry of being rejected again can make them take the easy way out.

I was just wondering other's take on this? Have you ever been told this before? How did you take it?

 

[Kelly]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I haven't been told no yet, but I can say I am getting a corso. That's a fact. I would really hope my breeders of choice wouldn't turn me down, I don't want to become desperate.

However, whatever happens, I refuse.....refuse to support a BYB who isn't health testing.

I am currently experiencing a dog with joint issues and it is hard. I dont care about the money it costs to maintain her comfort level, what I care about, is seeng her in pain when she gets up after sitting for awhile. Or not get up, or take 5 minutes to get up to go to her food dish. her tail is wagging, she is the happiest of girls, but her pain is breaking my heart.

 

[Smokeycat]

Most of the breeders I contacted about an English Mastiff told me no because I had no experience with a giant breed dog.

 

[Marrowshard]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I guess I always interpretted that phrase as: "not for first time dog owners", not just puppies or that particular breed. I know some wonderful people who have cats that might make great doggie parents too but I'd definitely hesitate to point them towards a mastiff if they've never owned a dog before. Everyone has to start somewhere, but I would think a puppy of any breed wouldn't be a good place if you've never had to do OB training or socialization or canine potty training.
I can kind of see both sides of this. To someone who has done their homework, met the dogs, knows what to expect, etc. then it's definitely unfair but for every one of those a breeder sees there are probably half a dozen ignorant little jerks who think raising a mastiff puppy will be just like that one time in 3rd grade when they babysat their friend's geriatric Lab.

~Marrow

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

Blackshadow, I agree if someone shows true interest and has done their research, they should not be turned down. Then they would go to other "breeders" as a means of obtaining a dog. On top of that people would have a bad misconception about reptuable breeders.

My issue what that because I was young and in college I was somenow unfit to be an owner, I went through the worse of times in college with Thor and he's still with me. There are MANY other students who show the same kind of commitment.

While I can understand the concern its wrong to categorize all people.

 

[Aplatitsin]

I totally agree if a person has done research and he knows all the pros and cons why not

 

[stephanieb]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

Personally I think it should be as much about personality match as breed experience. So many times I have seen people get dogs that in no way match their personality or lifestyle. I grew up with dobermans but just because I have experience with hard dogs, doesn't mean that I am at a place in life or of the personality type to have say a fila or cane corso. Someone that has the time and patience to spend on a cane corso or fila, to do the research and not be afraid to ask the breeder questions would be a far better choice than someone like me even though I have experience with hard breeds. Does that make any senese?

 

[ruby55]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

If you lurk on any breed specific forum for any breed, in the breeders section, you're going to see the same type of questions, and answers that a first time dog owner would not be suitable for the GSD/lab/cocker, etc. We all feel that our breed is unusual, and that it takes a special person to raise that kind of dog.
There are, admittedly, breeds that need someone a little more knowledgeable, with possible experience. But I would expect any breeder to keep track of their puppies, and keep in contact with their new puppy owners, to mentor them & help them with the process of raising an excellent dog. And I would hope that the breeder almost demands constant communication with the new puppy owner. If I had a puppy, I would certainly keep in contact with the breeder on his/her development, what he/she's eating, activities, pictures, etc. We still keep in contact with Ruby's breeder, and see him occasionally at dog shows. She loves her Uncle Vaughn, and he loves her. And he's very upset because he's lost track of 2 of the puppies out of a litter of 10.
So if a breeder has a "newbie" looking for a puppy, as long as the breeder feels comfortable with the owner, & is intent on keeping in touch, I can't see the harm in adopting that puppy out to a new guy. Most reputable breeders get a feel for their potential new puppy owners, & they know if it's going to work out. They evaluate the new owner & try to match a dog with the right personality.

 

[northernmastiff]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I have written on dogs and have suggested that some breeds are not for first time dog owners but I also stress that people have to understand how they are as owners. You can do that whether you are a first time owner or not. Some people are pushovers. My mother in law is and her first dog was a pitbull cross. The combination was not a good match and she ended up having to rehome. On the other hand, some people are too strict or too aggressive and some breeds should not be for them. I have never heard a breeder say a lab is not good for first time owners but all the lab breeders I knew took the time to really grill those first time buyers to make sure they understood what they were getting.

I do think it is up to the breeder and that each applicant for a puppy should be looked at separately. I know people who are first time owners in their 40's and they have the patience, understanding and money to raise any breed of dog. I also know many multi-dog owners who still have absolutely no clue on how to raise a dog, easy or difficult breed, but they would pass with the previous dog owner clause. I also agree with you Blackshadow, if people are turned down by a breeder, they are going to get it from somewhere else and both the dog and the owners will suffer from it. I would rather take a first time dog owner who is willing to learn, provide guidance to them and have them come back for a second or third puppy after they have had that experience with me over some idiot who has mistreated or mistrained his dogs for years and has finally decided to get his hands on a bigger breed.

On a side note, I find the people who say first time mastiff (etc) owners need not apply are worse. How exactly can you become a mastiff breeder if no one will let you bring a mastiff home without having owned one before?

 

[fila4me]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I agree with you Blackshadow. I tell those who ask regarding the Fila that they are not the breed for everyone. They are not a breed that I would recommend to most of my friends or people who see my dogs and do the "are they are so cute/pretty/etc., I want one". My breeder of my first two Filas told me this-research the Filas, come spend time with them, watch them in action. Then after 2-5 yrs of doing this if I was still interested I could get one. At 1st I was like whatever, then I realized he meant if I was going to put that much time and effort into his breed he loved I would be willing to deal with owning one.

 

[chuckorlando]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I aint sure it really matters. You could raise 15em and 12 saints and a Fila would be a whole new ball game. But they sound good on paper. I would think if they know what they are getting into. I mean really know, well then why not. It aint good enough to just know Fila's are aggressive. They need to grasp they are life style changing animals. But if they really get it, whats the problem

 

[northernmastiff]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I aint sure it really matters. You could raise 15em and 12 saints and a Fila would be a whole new ball game. But they sound good on paper. I would think if they know what they are getting into. I mean really know, well then why not. It aint good enough to just know Fila's are aggressive. They need to grasp they are life style changing animals. But if they really get it, whats the problem

Yes, agree with you there. I think Fila's are beautiful and I like them on paper...but I know that I couldn't change my lifestyle the way I would need to. The kids have a revolving door of friends (and new friends) coming through the door on a regular basis. I still think they are amazing dogs but I know that they will not be a breed I could own so I will just admire them from the sidelines.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

From what I have been reading Filas are a different ball game LOL. While one would surpsingly be a good fit for my lifestyle its still not something to take lightly. My issue would be if I had to leave who would watch the dog.

 

[chuckorlando]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

Our's comes with us. If we have to camp away from the group or get our own cabin. But thats something one needs to fully understand. ut it aint just the fila. Each breed has it's own quirks and in each breed you have classes just like Blackshadow was mentioning. It really means nothing cause you had a neo or a pit or what ever. Unless the other breed is very sim all around it just sounds good. Theres folks on here with EM that are a breeze to train, awsome to socialize. and just perfect. Then right behind them is one that all those things on the other end of the scale. So if you dealt with an easy dog and the next pup is a monster, you still would'nt have a clue. But if they grasp the worst and can deal with that, great.

It's just like long lasting relationships. Forget all the love and pretty about a person. Figure out all you hate with a passion. If yu can deal with all you cant stand, you'll be married for ever

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

If they're "not for first time owners", then there will never be "experienced" owners cause everyone starts somewhere. On the other hand its up to the breeder to determine if the person in front of them really can manage the dog as a first time owner of X breed, and I'm not sure all breeders are up to that task.

For example Tibetan Mastiffs. I know if I was a breeder I'd want someone, ideally, with primitives experience at the very least, maybe some big dog experience too for good measure, but technically we barely fit that description ourselves when we went looking for a puppy, and I don't think we've done that badly with Apollo. He's a happy, enthusiastic goofball, with good manners (way better than some dogs I know!). On the other hand I cringe when the random person admires him and says "oh I want one!!", cause really? Chances are they really wouldn't if they knew anything....My SIL recently lost her GSD (11yrs old, hips went, poor dog couldn't walk), and she was seriously considering contacting Apollo's breeder to put her name down for one of Apollo's brother's pups. Would I have backed her all the way if she'd wanted one? Sure, I know her, I know she could handle a TM, but she'd have not been happy with the trainability of the breed after her GSD (he'd run with her most mornings, no leash, for example), and it didn't take much discussion about Apollo for her to realize that. Which doesn't mean that a few years down the road she might not change her mind, she adores Apollo!

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

Camping trips would be easy but the business trips not so much. Although I don't have a job that requires traveling still I'd like to have contingency plan.

 

[Cody]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

It is true everyone needs to start somewhere, it is dependent on the person I believe.
When people meet Aurora they do the same thing, "oh I want one of those!" I am very careful to emphasize the amount of work that took place for her to be what she is. First off a great breeder who put a ton of socializing and work into setting up an awesome foundation, and DAILY training.
Still I work with her daily, learning new commands and taking her everywhere I can, setting her up to learn and trust me. Even our 10 minute walk to the bus stop with our son becomes a session. A down stay, recall, down, sit, stand, finish. Lol, I am a mean mom.
For many of the large breeds it is finding a home with the dedication they are willing to give, not nessacarily the experience they have.

 

[Jadotha]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

We got our first experience with giant breeds because a GD breeder was willing to take a chance on us. I had only owned one previous dog -- a medium sized collie, beagle, pointer mix (who live to be 22). But the breeder liked the fact that I trained horses, and that we had clearly done a lot of homework on GDs. The 2nd giant breed we bought was an Irish Wolfhound. The breeders were slightly reluctant, but brought a puppy they thought would suit to our house, watched us interact with our Great Dane and with the puppy, and interviewed us about our knowledge of wolfies. The breeders ended up being great mentors and showing coaches and we had other puppies from them. We since were accepted by Cane Corso and EM breeders after some discussion about breed uniquness-es.

So I really disagree with categorising and excluding 'first time owners'. I believe breeders should take things on a case by case basis, but do a thorough screening as to the buyer's motivations for selecting the breed, knowledge of the breed and willingness to learn, take advice and do what it takes to be successful.

 

[Kelly]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

yes definitely agree on a case by case basis.

 

[NeoBull]

Re: "Not for first time owners!"

I am putting this in the breeder section as this is where you normally hear it from but I am wondering everyone's take on this particular phrase when they hear it in regards to their breed of choice.

I'll post my opinion so and you can agree or disagree...

I disagree with saying this to puppy buyers. Do I think that all people are qualified to own my breed with no "working" or "guardian" breed experience. No. In most litters there are some hard asses, some middle of the road and some softer dogs. I think that if someone comes to a breeder that has done their research, shows commitment to want to train and work their dog, shows and eagerness to work with a breeder that those people are more than qualified to be an owner of a puppy of their choosing. This does not mean that they would end up with my hard asses or even my mid range but perhaps one of my softer dogs if I thought they passed my screening. This way if they do well and they gain the experience then next time (if they want the breed again) perhaps I have a repeat customer and they are more able to handle a mid to hard ass dog.

I dislike breeders that absolutely refuse to sell to first time puppy owners just because they are first timers and I think that this in part doesn't help with the BIEBer situations. I mean lets face it... if they want it then they generally are not going to take no for an answer, especially if they are that committed and have put all that time and research into the breed. So they either go to another breeder that maybe is a little open minded or they take their chances with a BYBer I would certainly hope that they would go to another breeder that cares for the breed but sometimes the worry of being rejected again can make them take the easy way out.

I was just wondering other's take on this? Have you ever been told this before? How did you take it?

This! When I was looking to get my Dobe several breeders AND rescues said only to Dobe experienced homes! So I said to one of the breeders, well if I can't get a Doberman from you without experience and I can't adopt without experience then what am I supposed to do? Find a BYB puppy??? I finally annoyed her into giving me a Dobe