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North American Mastiff

BattleDax

Well-Known Member
Okay, I know there will be some passionate input here. I know how many people feel about messing with breeds. I have felt that way too, and I still do to a degree. I guess I've developed a somewhat more open mindset over the years. Some of you know I've been a Doberman guy for years, and when I heard about the "Doodleman Pinscher," I was not happy; but Doodles are another topic with me.

So, how many of you have heard of the North American Mastiff? other names: DeBoar X, and NAM (I have no idea what the DeBoar X name is about)

https://www.northamericanmastiffofficial.com

Story is, it was developed by mixing 7 Mastiff breeds. I want to say it has supposedly been breeding true to type for about 20 years, but don't quote me on that.

If you look at the breeder's website, you can see what their dogs look like, and find videos on youtube. They don't make any mention of health testing, and not too much mention of temperament other than the claim that they will make good family guards.

Another hesitancy I have is that the breeder clearly places a very high importance on coat color and markings. If you get wind of their prices, it's an eye opener – the colors they seem to prize going for up to $10,000. Conversely, it seems the solid colors and plain old brindles are their least expensive (which would be the colors I would want, incidentally).

So anyway, as I explore and consider Mastiff-type dogs for our next dog, I have looked at the NAM because it has nice short cropped ears, and that is something that I want, and it has a natural tail. I find myself leaning toward a natural tail because it seems in breeds like the Corso and the Boerboel that docked tail wags so rapidly and just has a silly look to it, with that silly, happy looking wagging but conversely it seems a full tail is weighed down enough to wag more slowly. Yes, ears and tails matter to me, and it's not just being superficial. These things help determine the visual deterrence the dog projects, and deterrent is 99% of what a guard dog provides.

Thoughts??
 

Loverboy Skyline

Well-Known Member
As you know, I've been running into training issues with my Bullmastiff that I never experienced with my American Bulldogs. It has nothing to do intelligence, he might be the smartest dog I ever had. It's more about willingness and drive to work. If the dog isn't excited about working, then you really don't have options. I can teach someone to lift weights, but if all he does is go through the motions it's useless. He has to do it with intensity and that has to come from within. So for me, it's going to be all about working temperament next time around, and since you've owned Dobermans you probably have a certain expectation too. I read through that web page you linked. It made mention of working ability but there was nothing of substance behind it; no working titles, no protection demonstrations, etc. My automatic assumption is that they don't really breed for it. If I'm missing something let me know. I'm open minded, but if I don't see it, I'm not going to assume it's there.
 

Loverboy Skyline

Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention, I had working ability on both my American Bulldogs. There were no IPO titles in their pedigree, but I they were both very trainable in protection. My first one had parents that were both catch dog titled, so they both caught wild hogs. He is the one in the protection video I posted. My second one was a female whose parents were both Iron Dog competitors. I saw the male perform. He was super intense, and the male's owner told me the female was intense too, and I saw her videos. This female puppy had even more drive than my male, but unfortunately I lost her in an accident when she escaped from my 6 foot fence. That's the way I picked my puppies before, and I'm going back to that method on my next one.
 

BattleDax

Well-Known Member
That makes a lot of sense.

It's funny because in a way we may be in opposite situations right now. I am considering moving to a breed of dog that is low drive and lower energy than what I've had. You are wishing your dog had more drive and working interest.

My past two Dobes have been working line with Schutzhund / IPO titles in their pedigrees. Since I don't like driving much, and training in IPO (now IGP) always involves a lot of driving, I don't do that with my dog. In fact, and I hate to admit it, but since I'm in the thick of raising two humans, I don't find myself devoting much time or brain power specifically to training my dog. Now don't get me wrong. He's trained – extremely well by the average person's standards. We incorporate training in our everyday activities and it's ongoing for a lifetime.

As for the North American Mastiff: Yeah, no, I would not expect any working ability in those dogs. I think that's just a fluff claim they made. I think they are breeding all for looks and for that market that wants a large, tough looking dog and also is enthralled with oh so cool colors and markings.

So I should run, right? Among the few things that keep me looking at that NAM breeder is in the videos, the dogs look surprisingly alert and watchful. I would not have expected that from most mastiff-type breeds. I'm intrigued by that. And, as I said, the colors they value the least and charge the least money for are the colors I'd want – boring ol' brindle or even black.

So I'll keep investigating.

I wish I understood genetics better. Mixing 7 mastiff breeds suggests a nice large gene pool; however I don't know if that positive can get negated if they simply do too much inbreeding. Not that I know that they do, but I do wonder.
 

Loverboy Skyline

Well-Known Member
My thought behind getting a BM was I wanted a good first time dog for my wife who never owned big dogs. So my situation wasn't much different. But quite honestly my American Bulldogs were better mannered around the house and more sociable with strangers. They would have been much easier for my wife to deal with. Low drive doesn't necessarily mean better house pet. To me it just means I have less options. It was quite easy for me to get a CGC on him, but any venue that requires a higher level of training requires a trainer with far more patience than me, and I think I have good patience. I didn't think I needed high drive, but I miss it now. I like having a dog that works for me with excitement because he wants to please me; that's not all about getting something for himself. If my AB's were asked to do something outside of their comfort zone, I was able to get them to do it and they would like it eventually. With my BM it's far more challenging and less fun because he sees no point in doing it. For my AB's, the fact that I wanted them to do it was reason enough. I think the typical pet owner who never trains beyond basic commands might not see the difference, but I do just because I've had it. I bond better with that kind of dog. It's just a better match for me.
 

Loverboy Skyline

Well-Known Member
Now onto other topics. You mentioned the NAM videos show dogs that are alert and watchful. I don't think that's unusual. My BM is super alert and watchful. In fact he is TOO alert and watchful. A lot of times I really have to look hard to find what it is that's making him bark. My neighbors probably think he's a nutcase, but fortunately most of them know his temperament is stable and he looks and sounds meaner than he is. He is probably more watchful than most Bullmastiffs, but if I were a high volume BM breeder and wanted to make a video of watchful dogs, I can easily pick out a few dogs like him.

Also, this is just my opinion. I think if I saw one of those NAM dogs in public I'd probably think he was just an ugly mutt. Maybe a Great Dane and Corso cross that went wrong. LOL Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I'd hate to pay $10,000 for a dog and have most people ask "What's his mix? Did you get him from the shelter?" Etc. Hope you aren't offended. Just saying.
 

BattleDax

Well-Known Member
Now onto other topics. You mentioned the NAM videos show dogs that are alert and watchful. I don't think that's unusual. My BM is super alert and watchful. In fact he is TOO alert and watchful. A lot of times I really have to look hard to find what it is that's making him bark. My neighbors probably think he's a nutcase, but fortunately most of them know his temperament is stable and he looks and sounds meaner than he is. He is probably more watchful than most Bullmastiffs, but if I were a high volume BM breeder and wanted to make a video of watchful dogs, I can easily pick out a few dogs like him.

Also, this is just my opinion. I think if I saw one of those NAM dogs in public I'd probably think he was just an ugly mutt. Maybe a Great Dane and Corso cross that went wrong. LOL Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I'd hate to pay $10,000 for a dog and have most people ask "What's his mix? Did you get him from the shelter?" Etc. Hope you aren't offended. Just saying.
Not offended at all. Great points.