Nico (Presa) obedience- any input Deb?

[Kentopp]

Sorry this is long Hey guys it's been awhile since I've posted anything. It's amazing how much time the last semester of nursing school will take up. So my presa pup Nico has just turned 6months old last week. We have been working on all his basic commands and really have developed a bond and he is spot on when using treats with come, sit, down, stay, eyes (focus), slack leash walking (working on focused heel), and trying to add in a stand command ( incase I decide to get him in a conformation show I'm using "post" because its different than any of the others). These have mainly been trained indoors off leash over this winter. Leash goes on if he showing signs of needing correction. I also use all the commands outdoors on leash when going potty and walking to the dumpster when it hasnt been to cold/crappy outside. I am trying to wean off of using treats and Now I am having some issues with attention. Mostly this is outdoors, where there are obviously alot of distractions. The main issue is recall focus. He just will not come when called. He seems to be in ?high prey drive? by constant smelling and tracking stuff on the ground. It's like he is locked in and may or may not even be hearing me. I will direct him towards me with the leash (I use a flexi to allow him some distance to try and work on the recall) and when he gets about 6ish feet away he will cue in and come to me (then I praise). I have read on Leerburg that correcting for not listening to obedience is NOT O.K. unless the dog 100% knows the command. If he knows the command but is just so distracted that he does not "hear" me is giving a higher level of correction bad?
The other situation in which he doesnt listen to hardly anything is at the dog park where he is definitely in high prey drive chasing every single ball, friz, or whatever is flying through the air. After about 5 minutes if he is not listening he goes on the leash and we walk around while my other dog is allowed to go off leash. I guess I'm needing to know 1. am I doing anything wrong 2. do I still need to stick to treats constantly 3. What are some good distraction breaking techniques. 4. is this 6months old just the terrible twos. Im sure Deb will chime in and set me straight in her teaching ways Thanks for any input. Brandon

 

[Kentopp]

I did see this thread http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/10187-Not-responding-when-called which just makes it sound like I can't expect too much from him yet @ 6mo with senses going full blast. Anything else would be appreciative.

 

[DennasMom]

There are a bunch of different methods and philosophies out there...

One is all about the "drives" - like you said, when he goes into 'prey' drive, you don't count - unless you can make yourself into a more exciting 'prey' by squeeking and running away.

Another drive that works with "come" is the Pack (family) drive. My sister had great off-leash focus with her shepherd mix after one day she hid from him while on a hike... once he finally shifted into pack mode and started looking around, and was unable to find her... he NEVER let her get out of his sight again. That might have been a little extreme - at 6 months old, you can turn something like that into a trauma event, which isn't good, either... But hide-and-seek is a great game for building the recall.

Another method is to create a 'spring-loaded-recall' - it takes two people, one holding the puppy, the other making a big fuss (like prey) and calling "come here, here boy!" and/or the puppy's name until the puppy is absolutely struggling and pulling to get away from person #1 holding the puppy back, then they let go and the puppy RUNS to the person calling "COME, Good COME!". This will build muscle memory for the come command, which is a big help around distractions.

I don't really "correct" for blatant ignoring/avoiding of commands (Denna is uber-sensitive to physically corrections, and will simply shut-down), but I do make it known that it's not allowed... just the other day, I needed Denna to get in her crate and she REFUSED (there was a lost dog in the front yard, and she saw him... I needed to go grab him and take him home...she wanted to go play with him). I did the usual treat/bribe and "inside" command, which normally works just fine. But in this case, she tried to run away! When I cornered her so she couldn't run (no collar on her to grab), she fell on the ground and rolled onto her back in protest. I remained calm the whole time and just stood there, told her No when she went to run away, and ended up dragging her half-way to her crate, at which point she finally gave up and walked the last 2ft into the crate. So... I figured as long as I "won" in the end, we were making progress. Yes, I AM more persistent (stubborn) than a Mastiff!!

Denna's just over 1 year old now... so still a work in progress. LOL. I'll have to come back and read everybody else's recommendations, too!

We didn't go to the dog park at 6 months old for that very reason - she would have ignored me completely. It was only a few months later that I trusted her enough. So, hopefully you're close to the tipping point, too.

 

[Kentopp]

Thanks Dennasmom!! Sounds like I will remain patient and diligent as planned. Now that's its getting nice out here we can go outside and work with distractions. I like the hide and seek idea. We will have to try that. We just had to do the drag to the kennel thing yesterday too. That doesnt happen too often but sometimes he likes his pile of blankets next to the couch a little more than his kennel. At least it doesnt seem like hes a huge problem child. This is my first "stubborn" breed dog so it's a new world

 

[ruthcatrin]

Wandering through a bit late.

I don't personally consider a sharp tug of the leash when the dog is distracted to be a hard correction. And its often effective to get the dog to remember there's someone on the end of the leash he's supposed to be paying attention too.

Nothing you're doing is jumping out at me as "wrong". He definetly shouldn't be allowed off leash at the park till he's reliable with his come. And Denna's made some good suggestions for helping with come.

You don't have to stick to treats constantly no. If he responds well for praise, or even a quick game of tug, then feel free to use those too.