New Here

[Nightspidy]

and excited about getting a Presa Canario puppy this summer. I've been a long-time lurker on my breeder of choice's website since 2008 and have finally decided this is the year to get a puppy. This would be my first mastiff breed but not my first time with dogs or large dogs (prev owned a Rottweiler and later and pit bull x). I'm checking his website daily waiting for a pregnancy confirmation so I can send in my deposit.

I'm curious as to what training methods other Presa owners use.....I've been reading a lot about positive reinforcement training but am not sure about leaving a dog's negative behavior without consequences, especially negative behavior that can turn into dangerous behavior. I'm not talking about hitting but non-strangling leash corrections and interrupting/re-direction. How do you correct potentially dangerous behavior or do you just ignore what you don't want? I'm a little confused.

I plan on taking puppy to puppy socialization classes and through obedience classes. I am reviewing trainers on-line now and eliminating for various reasons before I actually meet them in person and further eliminate people. I live in Surrey BC and was wondering if there are other Presa/Mastiff owners out in that area that can point me in the right direction.

 

[alejandro]

Welcome, i think you are on the rigth track, i try to use positive reinforcement(or what i understand for it) but i come from a dominance theory past so it's not easy all the time, and i think there are times when the dogs must be corrected/interrupt/redirect like you said. Just my opnion and i'm no trainer or expert but it worked for me. Good luck on your efforts.

 

[Joe Flynn]

Mine is 8 months. She is gives me a headache. 90% of the time I redirect and use positive reinforcement. Then there's the other 10%. Like to day, I gave her raw chicken for the first time. She has always been more protective over her food that my other one. So she was having an issue figuring out how to eat the whole piece. I took it. Cut it up. Gave it to her. When she was almost done I crouched over top of her and put my arms around her neck. She flipped out. Snapping at me. I tuned her up after that. Not hurting her but swatted her good. Then put her in the kennel for 5 min before I made up with her. ......... I don't think I over reacted but I am feeling wary about getting physical with a dog as powerful as she is getting. Is there a better way to handle a situation like that?

 

[Paumanok]

Joe, my Presa is five months so I don't have the experience of many of the people here, but we have worked consistently with her on giving food and taking it away, feeding by hand, and interrupting her meals. I can now take away very high value meat and bones without issue, and my mom who was just visiting commented on how willing she was to have a relative stranger's hand in her mouth to take away something she should not have gotten!

My understanding is that the chicken is very high value, so if she doesn't have a good foundation of not being possessive over relatively low value food like kibble, interrupting a chicken meal could be asking for trouble. Maybe you could go back to basics with her -- feed her one meal a day by hand, and make her work for every bite. When you interrupt her meal in a bowl, be sure to praise her, and add a special little treat so that getting food taken away becomes rewarding. Getting her to "focus/ look at me" while you are doing it may help break the possessive chain of thought.

That said, I did give her two serious corrections (growling, shaking jowls) when she growled at me over a bone the first week her, and there hasn't been an issue since. Because yours is older and stronger, I'm not sure I would recommend that!

 

[Cobalt]

Welcome to the site Nightspidy, good luck with the wait for the new pup!

Re training, fortunately have never had ours growl at us yet (just the vacuum cleaner LOL) but we've been using positive reinforcement, including hand feeding, and intensive socialization (with people, animals, and situations) right from day one. As Paumanok mentioned above, one of her feedings each day has been hand fed combined with the "focus" command for each bite and that comes in very handy when moving on to other commands. Once you have their attention with an initial "focus", other commands seem to come easier, along with being able to quickly break their attention from something they shouldn't be doing.

 

[SG1]

Congrats nightsipidy, I think your getting a great dog. I say this because in the early nineties when I was made aware of these rare breed / superior guardians I wanted one but couldnot make my mind up as to which one I wanted. I finally narrowed it down to the dogo and the presa. To my satisfacation I chose the dogo and have owned three over the years.

I did buy a one year old seventy-five pound prese for my adult daughter. Diablo never displayed any aggression towards my daughter and I but proved he was very willing to fight another dog. After training a few of his rough edges off I gave him to my daughter with explicit instructions on how to handel him. He was the perfect dog for her until he died seven years later from kidney failure.

While every dog is different and your pup may have a mild temperament you could also get a presa with a great attitude like Joeflynn. With that said I agree with alejandro, you have to dominate your pup while he is young. Give him firm leash corrections when he is wrong and plenty of praise when he is good.

I am not a fan of distracting these types of dogs with high value treats. If your pup holds true to his breeding he my want to attack more than he wants your treat.

Over all I think you will find that your presa is vastly different than your two previous dogs. I consider it an upgrade and have enjoyed the challenge of training/controlling these types of dogs.

Good luck and enjoy the journey

 

[SG1]

Hey Joe , your eight month old sounds like my kinda of girl. From what i've read this is typical presa temperament just not under control. I recommend a prong collar firmly fitted and put her through her paces, heal,sit etc correcting her if necessary. After a week recreate the offending incident and correct her as many times as needed untill she comes around.

Warning; because she has gotten away with this behavior for so long she feels real good bout herself and she will fight you so be prepared. I under stand if this is not your cup of tea. My feelings will not be hurt if you try a different method, I was just responding to your post. Just remember this, no matter what method you use do it quickly because your window of opportunity is closing fast.

Good luck

 

[DennasMom]

Welcome to the forum!

On training - we went the "all positive" route - but I agree, when the dog does something absolutely against the rules, there needs to be negative consequences.

But, when starting with a baby puppy, there's a lot you can do to prepare for issues that might arise (like resource guarding), to be sure you have tools at the ready to counter-act the problem when you see it, and before it gets out of control.

Like the puppy that got a VERY valuable piece of chicken, and didn't want to share... you have to condition the puppy beforehand that anytime you put your hand in their dish, something GOOD is on it's way, and if you take something out, something BETTER is coming. (You can also start doing this at any time, just start with something less valuable than chicken to start with, so you can be successful and work your way up.)

If the puppy does growl - stand your ground. He's testing the boundaries, and you need to let him know he won't win. You can control a little puppy physically, but not for long - so it's best if you can out-think and out-stubborn your puppy. Use calm, confidence and think what the momma dog would do in that situation (no frustration, no anger, just calm persistence)... and carry through.

I would have given the puppy with the chicken the "mom's pissed look" until the puppy backed away from the dish (which might take a while, but it's well worth the time investment)... then I'd wait 5 more seconds... then call him back to me to give him the chicken back. So, he learns that "to get the treat, you must first give up the treat" (doggie zen).... and, the corollary: if he DOES wait... the treat will come.

Also... this comment: "I crouched over top of her and put my arms around her neck"... yeah, I'd flip out if someone did that to me when I was eating, too... I tend to leave my dogs alone to eat most of the time (while randomly adding goodies to the dish, so they look forward to any interruptions).

There are lots of nuances to training, and while all puppies share some similarities, they are also unique individuals, so you have to do what works for you and the dog.
Good Luck!

 

[Hector]

Mine is 8 months. She is gives me a headache. 90% of the time I redirect and use positive reinforcement. Then there's the other 10%. Like to day, I gave her raw chicken for the first time. She has always been more protective over her food that my other one. So she was having an issue figuring out how to eat the whole piece. I took it. Cut it up. Gave it to her. When she was almost done I crouched over top of her and put my arms around her neck. She flipped out. Snapping at me. I tuned her up after that. Not hurting her but swatted her good. Then put her in the kennel for 5 min before I made up with her. ......... I don't think I over reacted but I am feeling wary about getting physical with a dog as powerful as she is getting. Is there a better way to handle a situation like that?

Work on an "out" command like demonstrated in this video. You don't have to use a prong collar you just have to have control of the dog. Start with a bowl of kibble. When you say "out" lead the dog away. With repetition, the dog should "out" on command with no help from you. Once the dog has learned this "out" command, move on to higher value food like wet dog food, bowl of treats, pieces of cooked chicken, and then try it on something very high value such as raw meat. If you are repetitive, consistent and clear about this, the dog should be able to out with ease.

[video=youtube;ZWyAA-7hedo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWyAA-7hedo[/video]

Also, two other useful commands are leave it and drop it. These commands should all be trained separately. Be sure to set the dog up for success by controlling your variables such as having the dog on collar/leash or being able to block the dog from accessing the food.

You really don't want to wait until you have a problem to use/train these commands. Build a strong foundation and you will be glad you did later down the road. Make sure to spend quality time teaching these commands and not rush to "test" the dog. Also, make sure when you're training these commands that the dog is not too stressed out because high stress levels will hinder their ability to listen and learn. Remember to have fun.

 

[Nightspidy]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I think I allowed myself to become temporarily confused by an overload of information. I haven't had a large dog in many years and I want to raise a mentally sound Presa. I want my girl to be a positive ambassador for the breed, you know?

I'm all for positive reinforcement but this "new age trend" of 100% positive reinforcement is just not sensible for a Presa.....I really feel that the dog would consider me "weak" and not respect me as the alpha. Actually thinking back on it, it wouldn't have worked with my rottie or my Pitt cross either. I turned both of them down on their backs once and only once when they displayed negative behaviour that I knew they knew better than to do and that was the end of that. It was during that damned teenager phase they go through.

It has been a real challenge trying to find puppy classes that aren't only positive reinforcement based - I have only found 3 (THREE only!!!!!!) compared to 25.

I'm going to train my pup as I have my other large breeds - a mix of positive reinforcement along with consequences for non-compliance. Those consequences will vary depending on the situation. I just cannot see how ignoring unwanted behaviour is good, in a pack the alpha would not allow such things to go unanswered.

Again, thank you everyone for the suggestions and support. I look forward to hanging out here more and more. I have big plans for my not yet conceived girl, lol, and I look forward to sharing with you all.

 

[Joe Flynn]

This is definitely an educational post. I have not had anymore issues (with Lady). I've now been feeding her pieces of chicken out of my hand... I do feel that with such alpha oriented dogs one must walk a fine line. Knowing when to physically touch, dominate space, scold, or ignore is key. All must be used to effectively communicate. My mistake in above post was this: First time with them eating chicken, usually it's deer. I was enjoying watching them figure out how to eat this new food. I overlooked her frustration with the skin and bone, and was just giving her a hug (not actually doing any training). I should have been consciously aware of her body language and mine.