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Mastiffs of Middle Earth: North Texas

DetroitRodeo

Active Member
Thanks Cinnamon!

I received the response back. I'll try to paraphrase since the email is a bit long.

Strider (stud) is going in next month for all is OFA testing. She would be very happy to send me all the results immediate after she gets them. Mia was not tested because she was being retired. She stated that both had veterinary confirmation on good joints. Also that neither of their parents have had any joint issues and that Mia's dad is now 12 still with no issues.

I just received another email with both pedigrees for Strider and Mia. And I will be blunt and say I have no idea what I am looking for on them...I can see Mia has quite a few champions in her line. She was bred by Rodderick Polk. Strider was bred by Terry Latva (Polk merged with North Texas Mastiffs and are now one breeder). I looked up North Texas mastiffs and they looked fine...again from my inexperience eyes. But there at least seems to be a trail/story behind this.

I hope I got the main points out from the emails!


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WalnutCrest

Well-Known Member
Feel free to email the pedigrees to me ... I think my email address is in my profile ... :) ... I'll happily comment to you privately.
 

WalnutCrest

Well-Known Member
Why is Strider only going in for his OFA tests after having been bred three times here recently (plus who knows how many times in the past)?

Why wasn't Mia tested before her other litters (them "retiring" her indicates she had other litters)?

Either they got "testing religion" ... or are lying and have no plans to test any of their dogs ... or are realizing their puppy buyer market is becoming more discriminating (but they could still care less about testing, other than it'll help them sell pups, and possibly for higher prices (iow, they're being pragmatic about it)). I'd put higher probabilities on reasons #2 or #3 than on reason #1.
 

thelady_v2010

Well-Known Member
But both of those dogs have been bred once before. Neither should have been bred without the official certification. I really think this is a case of breeding her pets to make some extra cash. I have no doubt they are well loved, but she isn't breeding for the right reasons.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Scratch that, the male has been bred 6 times?

3 times (once an accident) this season, with the implication of having been bred previous

The whole "doing OFAs now...." thing comes across as really really sketchy. Did they at least do pre-lims on Strider before breeding him?? And the bitches DEFINETLY should have been done too.....
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
And what is "veterinary conformation of good joints"? I mean sure, when I took Apollo in to do his OFA xrays the vet went over the xrays with me to show me why he thought that Apollo's hips would go Excellent and elbows Normal, but if they DID xrays previously why the heck didn't they just send THOSE in? Cause seriously, the xrays are the expensive part. The OFA certification costs like $40. The xrays $200-$700 depending on the vet and the dog......
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Just to clarify that I know that she couldn't have done Strider's hips and elbows OFFICIALLY before he turned 2, but he turned 2 over the summer and she's deliberetly bred him twice since if I'm reading the site right. Plus possible breedings before that. But if she had xrays done on the bitches why weren't THEY sent in?? If she had xrays done on Strider why didn't she at least do OFA pre-lims on him, since thats the cheap part, before breeding him?
 

DetroitRodeo

Active Member
So my wife and I have obviously made a poor decision...I've talked to her about this and all the wonderful advice and input you each have given. She for frustrated (not at you or I) but the situation and said she is not 100% sure she wants to back out yet. I think her heart was set on one of the pups to be honest. I let her know that I was more comfortable not goi through with it but she's going to sleep on it lol...you married couples know how this works.

Anyway, besides the breeder rushing into breeding and not following proper steps, how much risk are we really taking if we do go through with it? I mean the parents looked happy and healthy. We spent time with them inside and then about 20 minutes outside as they ran around the property (large acreage all fenced).


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ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
POSSIBLY none.

POSSIBLY alot.

There are certinally dogs on here that came from BYBs that have great temperments and no health problems. But there are also dogs on here (using this community as an example since its easy) that came from BYBs who've had to be put down cause the breeder just breed their "wonderfull pets" who turned out to be not so wonderfull, and while you're at it ask Smokeycat how much Kyrten's elbow dysplasia surgery has cost (at less than a 1.5yrs of age I might add, its in the $1000's PER ELBOW).....although its POSSIBLE for a dog to get dysplasia when both parents and grandparents tested clean its alot less likely.
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
I agree and advocate with everything that has been said. There is a higher risk of getting a dog with health or temperament issues from a BYB. Can you get a good dog from a BYB? Yes, you can. Can you get a crappy dog from a reputable kennel? Yes, you can.

What bothers me about the breeder ya'll are talking about is that she seems to lie a lot or at least says what she thinks you want to hear. I would try to get my deposit back by pointing out some of her inconsistencies.
 

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
In terms of temperament, Kryten is exactly what I want. In terms of health problems while there are some that in my mind are worse off than he is, his joint problems are serious. He was diagnosed with bilateral elbow dysplasia when he was 15 months old. He had surgery to repair his left elbow this summer and it is a very real possibility that he will need his right leg repaired in the future. Thankfully I got pet insurance on him when he was 12 weeks. Even so I probably paid over $2000 (it would have been $7000-$8000 without) and the second leg will cost around the same amount.
The money isn't the real problem though. Kryten has lived most of his life in pain and it has taken a large chunk of his life so far in order to even partially correct it. His surgery was on June 3, 2013 and I can only now allow him to be the puppy that he still is. He spent several months where he couldn't even go outside of the yard because of his surgery and recovery restrictions. I also KNOW that he will have arthritis and it could be very severe.
His breeder did have the hips done by the vet but I believe that was the only testing that was done. She had the history of several generations of the male line and there was no history of joint problems. But as I've come to learn the only way to diagnose ED is by X-ray and it is far more frequent than people want to believe.
Due to the emotional turmoil of deciding how to best help Kryten I have decided that the next puppy I get will come from parents that have had testing done, just to minimize the chance of having to watch another dog go through this.
 

thelady_v2010

Well-Known Member
3 times (once an accident) this season, with the implication of having been bred previous

The whole "doing OFAs now...." thing comes across as really really sketchy. Did they at least do pre-lims on Strider before breeding him?? And the bitches DEFINETLY should have been done too.....

If you read the litters page, they are expecting 3 litters, he is the father of them all and it says that 3 of the litters are repeat breeders. On all the female pages them being a mother is referenced, so all 3 females have had a previous litter.
 

DetroitRodeo

Active Member
Mia and Halo are definitely repeats. This is their 2nd breeding I believe. Not sure on that joint littler she is having though.

Either way, because of all if you I have to back out of this. I just need to get my wife 100% ok with doing that (she's more emotionally attached).

Then we need to find a great integrity based breeder for our pup.


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DetroitRodeo

Active Member
Well we are not moving forward. Let the breeder know yesterday. We are out a deposits but also out if possible years of poor doggy health.

All of you have been awesome and I am glad I posted the original questions. You all have steered us away from what could have been a nightmare!


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thelady_v2010

Well-Known Member
Well we are not moving forward. Let the breeder know yesterday. We are out a deposits but also out if possible years of poor doggy health.

All of you have been awesome and I am glad I posted the original questions. You all have steered us away from what could have been a nightmare!


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I wish you would have asked first, that is brave to let the deposit go and chalk it up to a learning experience!