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Looking for Tibetan Mastiff Breed Info

awestruckgsd

Well-Known Member
Hi there my name is Judy and we are new to the list...We presently have a 1 and a half year old English Mastiff named Diesel and 2--12 year old German Shepherds and are looking to add to our family within the next year...We are considering a Tibetan Mastiff and are interested in learning about the breed and how they are to live with...Are they good family companions and protectors??? How much grooming and maintenance are they to keep...We live in the country on 8 acres of land and have huge 10 x 20 fenced runs for our dogs...If anyone can offer us any advice and words of wisdom it would be greatly appreciated...we have had German Shepherds for over 20 years now and mastiffs are our new love...Thanks Judy
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
They're remarkably easy to groom actually. Once a week brush unless they're blowing their coat in the spring. Problem areas are right behind the ears, britches and tail, I try to get those twice a week most of the year, every day right now. Apollo gets a bath every 4-6 months unless he's done something to make himself really smelly, but in general they have little to no doggy oder and their coats shed 90% of the dirt and dust just fine, even mud, just wait till it dries and let him shake.

I think I answered the rest in the other thread. Maybe ought to move that down here, so if you read this in time respond here instead of there please.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Thank you Ruth you are awesome that is all the information in a nutshell that I have been searching for and I'll tell you why...LOL My last male shepherd that I have from our very first breeding almost 13 years ago "Rudy" is really failing health wise right now at 12 and a half years and you have just described his personality to a "T"...You see he is not your typical GSD and has always had extremely protective instincts much like your Tibetan and that is what we have loved most about him...Although he was very difficult to show and work with and judges didn't always appreciate his personality, as it's not really correct for a GSD, he has been the best dog ever protecting my family and our property and people have always said when they pull into the yard and we are not home they feel rather uncomfortable getting out of their vehicles as he would be making such a ruckess jumping at the fence and barking and although we have always known he would never attack anyone it always made us feel better knowing that he was doing his job...Living in the country most of the time by myself and raising children I always felt safe as my husband travels alot and now I am going to be all by myself as my kids are almost gone...The more and more I learn from you I really think a Tibetan is what we are looking for...Next question we have a 2 year old very submissive male English Mastiif what are your thoughts on another male or should we get a female??? We would be showing the dog for sure and I would be also doing obedience work as I do with all my dogs...and I guess if you have any reputable breeders I could talk to I would love to check them out as well...Thanks again Ruth you are the best...Judy

(quote from other thread)

Seriously consider getting a female rather than a male. Its possible that you'd be fine, but its also VERY possible that as the TM matured he would decide he didn't want the other male mastiff around his property any more and decide to do something to enforce that. Especially if the TM was the more dominent of the two. Apollo's breeder said she often see's that change at about 2 to 3 years of age (assuming it doesn't happen during the first breeding season, which it often does). Oh, as a primitive breed TM's have a true, reasonably predictable, breeding season, during which bitches go into heat and the dogs actually go into rut. The males are still technically fertile outside of rut, but the horomones kick into high gear for that time period, one of those cool little tidbits.

Obedience: go for it, but be prepared to not be able to do the off-leash portions in public. Maybe you'll get lucky and get one of the exceptions to the rule, but just be prepared to have it not work as planned.

Definetly spend some time on the link I posted in the other thread (www.tibetanmastiffinfo.com) as they are a VERY good resource of information on the breed. They also have a breeder list, and are working on a breeder code of ethics requirement for listing. I went through Susie at http://www.tibetan-mastiffs.net/ in VA to get Apollo. Though I don't believe she has any future litters planned at this time she often has rescue dogs on the property if you were willing to consider getting a dog rather than a pup (infact last year, just about this time, she had a female from one of her litters come back to her due to the owners health, no idea if the female still needs a home or not), she also knows a large number of the other TM breeders both in the States and out of the USA, and so could likely point you to a breeder closer to you who'd likely be a good match if you do want a pup. Also if you're close enough to arrange a visit to her place I highly recommend it, as she has some awesome dogs. She's also a very "alpha female" who WILL tell you what she thinks and has owned and bred TMs for some 25yrs. She's also busy as heck right now so if she's a little slow to respond to your email don't worry.

edited: I take back what I said about no litters planned, looking at her site she's got 3 co-owned litters planned with her kennel partner in India with two of the litters to be born in the states. The sire for the two is one of Apollo's littermates and an absolutely STUNNING dog. His temperment is WONDERFULL, and he's HUGE.
 
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awestruckgsd

Well-Known Member
Thanks again Ruth you have helped us immensely in making our decision. Now we shall begin to look at breeders and
bloodlines. Again I will say what a gorgeous boy you have. Take care. Judy
 

Tiger12490

Well-Known Member
Well many show bred dogs aren't good for there original task as a TM I wanted to know if they could still guard the flock

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awestruckgsd

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where you got your information but I can't see why not if given the opportunity to do so??? I have had German Shepherds, which are herding dogs, for over 20 years now and have shown all of them and kept them as house pets... they all have the natural instinct in them to herd and seeing as we do not live on a farm they choose to herd their family, their children and run circles around us to keep us close to them...as puppies they actually nip at our heels to stop us from getting away just as they would livestock if it were starting to stray...some of them have had stronger instincts then others but the instinct to perform their job is still there and if needed I'm sure we could have fostered it to make is stronger if they were to actually work on a farm herding...I hope that answers your question somewhat...Judy
 

Tiger12490

Well-Known Member
It was just a question but I do know for a fact many dogs have been ruined by the ring including the German shepherd the neopolitan the Dane the St Bernard the list goes on...now are there show dogs that can still perform why of course and I was just wondering if that breeders dogs could that's all

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awestruckgsd

Well-Known Member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion no offense taken...My dogs are all housepets and family companions first showing and obedience trialing is just something we do for fun and enjoyment...
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Tiger: yes, however in today's world (or at least the USA world, I can't really speak for other countries) they probly SHOULDN"T be used for Livestock Guarding. They still CAN, but what MAKES a LGD is their ability to bond with their charges. Its part of what makes them GUARD. THe problem is how tightly TMs bond with their charge and their aggressiveness with protecting it. When the charge is a person, and the person's family and property, the guarding can be managed. WHen the charge is a herd or flock TMs can become outright dangerous to humans, because of the lack of bond with humans in general. A large portion of the USA is NOT tolerant of this sort of behavior.

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

If you're actually looking for LGDs I'd look closer at the Kuvasz, Great Pyrenees or Maremma for actual working dogs that will work better with today's society.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
If you're actually looking for LGDs I'd look closer at the Kuvasz, Great Pyrenees or Maremma for actual working dogs that will work better with today's society.

---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

I know of breeders who use the TMs they breed to guard their farms, and by all reports they do so quite well, but the dogs are bonded to the humans first, and are guarding the property of the humans 2nd if that makes sense.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I know of breeders who use the TMs they breed to guard their farms, and by all reports they do so quite well, but the dogs are bonded to the humans first, and are guarding the property of the humans 2nd if that makes sense.

Edited rather than do another short little post: the concerns you mentioned with other breeds is part of why there was (and is) a HUGE uproar over the breed standard changes that went into effect March 1. Many people view it as an attempt to make an "American Tibetan Mastiff" rather than the Tibetan Mastiff that is the LGD of the Himalayas.
 
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Tiger12490

Well-Known Member
Thanks that's impressive and I could see how some would not like that.. from what I've been told the Sar is much like that. the LGD and the ancient dogs of old are so interesting they are truly majestic in there devotion I can't wait to own land and really learn about them.

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ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I have to add, the TM breed in general has a lower incidence of displaysia, cancers, seizures, and other genetic abnormalities than most other common medium-large breeds. There is occasional problems with ectropian, and there is a tendancy toward thyroid issues. There has been a recent upswing of some of these issues in the US lines however due to issues with importing new bloodlines, so care has to be taken in the choice of breeder.

They're also long lived. Over 10yrs is standard, over 12 is normal, and Apollo's great-grandma just turned 16 back in Dec.
 
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Kelly

Well-Known Member
Wow that's incredibly long lived for a large dog! Impressive.

I understand what Tiger is saying about ruining the TM with the show ring. Im kind of confused tho, is it not considered an LGD breed? If that's the case, then why would you change the purpose of the dog so that it can be integrated into US society?

I just love love love finding out about the temps of different breeds.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
It IS an LGD by most standards of the term, but for US society its best to choose a different breed if you want an actual working dog. I'm not saying to change the breed (infact I find the recent breed standard changes to be quite repungent), just advising that for USA culture as it stands the TM is probly not the ideal LGD for working livestock. However they work quite well as property guardians as long as care is taken to make sure they bond to the humans first. Thats not a change of purpose, its still using the exact same skill and temperment set to achieve purpose. Infact the traditional usages of TMs included homestead/town/temple guarding and dogs were (and are!) chosen as pups to the different tasks based on the temperment of the pup.
 
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