Looking for siblings from our breeder

Discussion in 'Tibetan Mastiff' started by TMmom, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. TMmom

    TMmom Well-Known Member

    I would like to try to find either siblings from our litter or any other TM owners from Flash Point Ranch, Temecula CA. Laurel and Marc Denk. Would love to hear from you. My girl was whelped on January 15th 2014.

    Attached Files:

  2. TMmom

    TMmom Well-Known Member

    I can't believe there isn't one other TM owner from the same breeder who wants to talk about our babies! I just though how cool to share stories.
  3. ruthcatrin

    ruthcatrin Well-Known Member

    I gotta admit that you're the first person I've talked to on here with a dog from them (at least that I recall), so maybe there just isn't any others on teh forum? Or maybe they only check in infrequently.
  4. Catia

    Catia Well-Known Member

    Would the breeder have a database & could put you in touch with some of the others if they are open to it or are they just not responsive?

    My thinking is others may not know this little nook exists.

    What is the birthdate of your girl? Maybe can track something online by date?

    I was searching inet & didnt come up with much, but they have an 8mo old girl for sale now.
  5. TMmom

    TMmom Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I know it may be from the same litter, my Laufey was born 1/15/2014. I sent them an email and so far nothing.
  6. Catia

    Catia Well-Known Member

    Have you had any luck contacting them directly via phone?

    I did some online searches--looks like they have a seriously loaded plate--Laurel being a DVM, also has special needs child & is a breeder & appears she shows dogs as well-- That's a LOT & being the beginning of the school year is harder--maybe she's just swamped?

    couldn't locate an operating business phone--it appears the one business may no longer be open--I'm assuming you have a working phone # right?

    There's ads on puppy sites, but only contact through those ads???not much else--but she has a facebook page it appears--I don't do facebook, never have, so can't view it, but maybe you can? I know most people nowadays seem to respond to facebook faster than anything else--plus maybe she has friends who have her pups?

    Just some ideas--came up with mostly dead ends--which I feel is odd.

    I have no experience with breeders--except for boarding Tessa with a Golden Retriever breeder.---BUT---having said that, I can tell you--the breeder I boarded Tessa with is so busy-getting her to pick up a phone was almost impossible.

    In my multiple attempts to contact her, I felt put off--until I visited--then I fully understood & accepted that the lack of response was due to the fact that she was working with the dogs from sun up to well past sundown.
    When I'd go there, mostly it was me following her around while she was working in order to ask questions--that's how I got to see how things operated there--which greatly reduced my stress of very little contact while Tessa was boarded there--only a few texts in 3 weeks--but I knew she was always with the dogs...
    Just a thought.
  7. TMmom

    TMmom Well-Known Member

    I don't facebook either, never have. Not my cup of tea. Anyway, I do have a phone # I'll give them a few more days and then try to call. I'm sure it's just that they are very busy. I just thought it would be nice to bond with a litter mate parent. What is Tessa and where did you get her from? If you don't mind my asking.
  8. Catia

    Catia Well-Known Member

    Tessa is 1/2 TM, 1/2 Golden Retriever...

    She was a rescue, and was supposed to be a rotti/retriever mix--
    Not a drop of rottie in her...
    It's a LONG story--& I am pretty certain that the rescuers knew she was 1/2 TM. I was told up front she was an accidental breeding & mom was a golden retriever breeder.

    They put me through hell to adopt her--So many papers & backround checks & vet references & personal references stating my experience with mastiffs & giant breeds. Pics of my house, my fence, agreed to home inspection...It was like applying for a freakin mortgage...I still had an in person interview/assessment I had to do after all of that, & it was a 6.5 hour drive...
    Then they turned me down before the interview for someone local...I was told she was adopted. I was sick to my stomach for days.
    I had a feeling in my gut about Tessa.
    I called back after she was adopted to tell them that if she was returned for ANY reason at ANY time or age to please let me come in for the interview.
    It was a 6.5 hour drive.
    The administrator informed me she cancelled Tessa's adoption because she did not feel right about how the family interacted with her, she said it was a last second decision, she just couldn't do it & she had placed Tessa back in her foster home.
    She agreed to meet me, but made no guarantees on Tessa's adoption. I sold myself as best I could before she decided to cancel again, & made the trip the day before Easter last year. I was sick to my stomach the whole way there.
    All of that ended the second I saw Tessa in person & picked her up.
    They even called the foster parents for me & arranged a meeting & we drove there to meet them & speak with them about Tessa & they got a final good bye.

    Then I got her home & quickly realized she behaved like no puppy I have ever encountered...And a member here found me on a rottie forum & saw pics of Tessa and said "I think she's TM & they are different & you should speak to some TM owners & show them the pics & describe what's going on"---

    And she was right--& all is good--NOW--but back then, I did not think I could handle a TM. I've had many a dark hour on this forum--and came out the other side-because of the support & guidance I received here.

    It was meant to be.

    She was originally from Halifax County Virginia, was rescued then fostered in Prince Frederick Maryland.
  9. TMmom

    TMmom Well-Known Member

    Two questions. where are you located if you don't mind me asking, and please tell me some of your puppy issues. I love the stories and am really learning a lot.
  10. Catia

    Catia Well-Known Member

    I'm in Pittsburgh, PA.

    As far as 'puppy issues' , I'm not sure where to begin!!!

    Also, I'm not sure if I'm the right person to listen to--And I'll tell you why:

    I was smacked upside the head with a TM--when what I wanted was a rottie.
    ...I did not go into this willingly...
    Rotties & TM's are are worlds apart.
    Anyone who tells you different doesn't have a clue.
    Independent breeds are so different & this is why most people do not have them as pets, but as working dogs.

    I really mourned the differences.
    I really struggled because I had to let go of *ALL* of my plans & ideas for what my life with Tessa was going to be like.

    I was never going to get that rottie response to commands, & I didn't trust the independent nature. I didn't want a dog that made decisions for itself, I wanted a dog who would look to me for direction & follow my commands through. Period.

    Hindsight being 20/20, I clearly see now that MOST of Tessa's issues were actually MY issues. She was an extraordinarily well behaved puppy. An old soul.
    It was as if she were born 'knowing'. Never had such a good puppy!

    I say Tessa is "the goodest bad dog ever"...

    I suppose the 2 biggest issues were that she didn't listen or respond like a 'regular dog', sayuing she was stoic is an understatement. And she postured & unshakably observed everything that was new or different from the 1st day. Her attention could NOT be shaken. Her sensory perceptions were so strong & different. I had to find a way to work WITH them in hopes of shaping responses I could live with & learn to trust.

    I had zero TM experience, zero LGD experience, zero independent breed experience.
    I wasn't looking for an 'independent' breed of dog.
    I never knew there was a such thing as 'independent' breeds.
    I could NOT wrap my brain around why anyone would want one.
    I had 25-30 yrs of experience with large & giant breeds before Tessa.
    I had mastiffs/shepherds/danes/rotties--All very dependent dogs.
    I wanted a dog that would listen & respond to me.

    My previous pooches were trained to verbal & hand signals & I could take them everywhere--I derived a LOT of joy out of knowing I could give a tiny signal to my pooch from across a field & they'd respond. Off leash stuff was a large part of my previous life & I never had a pooch where recall couldn't be relied upon.

    I really had to wrap my head around the fact that Tessa was different, & was going to continue to be different. Outside of this forum, I got a lot of flack--people kept telling me "a dog is a dog", a TM isn't any different--blah blah blah.

    If I were going to make the relationship with Tessa work--I had to trust what the actual TM owners were telling me their direct experiences were.
    For me, this meant I had to ignore most everything--from everyone else, including local trainers--because TM's are so rare-no one had experience with them, & since I am in the city, no one had LGD's, which is the next closest thing to a TM.

    I had so many people who told me that Tessa's responses--or lack of responses was because of me--it was something I was doing wrong...I was told if I could figure out what I was doing wrong--Tessa would respond like any other dog...Hah!!!! Don't drink that cool-aid!

    The reality is that Tessa's responses are genetic, tens of thousands of years of isolation for specific tasks changes things.
    ----------Nature vs nurture can only go so far.

    I can train & make consistant 'suggestions'--I can show Tessa many experiences in order to shape her world--but ultimately, Tessa's final resonse (her actual decision) will be out of my control, because she thinks independently.
    ***This is what terrified me***

    It wasn't that Tessa didn't listen or respond--It was that she had different queues & different responses--She beat to her own drum & it did not make sense to me.
    Because it did not make sense, I struggled with it, & did not trust her.
    I did not understand at what point I could trust Tessa, if ever, because she did not carry out my wishes when I wanted her to...

    She was (is) still a pup, so I set out to make sure I could let her experience as many different people/animals/environments as possible, while still consistantly 'requesting' certain specific behaviors--& I kept at it daily, regardless of whether she carried the 'request' or not. It was exhausting & I broke down more than once because I was so out of my element.

    My theory was the more she experienced young, the more rounded & capable of making a proper decision she'd become. I also needed to figure out her sensory queues.
    Essentially I was 'conditioning' Tessa rather than 'training' her.
    It is splitting hairs--but there IS a difference.

    I have some backround working with kids with varying degrees of Autism.
    It was something I picked up when I was young, & autistic kids have different sensory perceptions--the cues they respond to takes time to understand & shape. It's a lot of observation & a lot of trial & error to get 'in tune' with what they are responding to, but once you figure it out, you can shape the response quite a bit if you are vigilant & consistant.
    Also, autistic kids can be very OCD-especially with repetitive movements-but if you can find a way to distract you can sometimes get a different response--This is basically how I was handling Tessa, especially with her posturing & unshakeable observation.

    I also positively reinforced every submissive behavior she displays-with other people & animals. For the most part, I still do this. I don't know yet if this part was right or wrong, as I would not have gone this route with a rottie.

    Tessa being 1/2 breed TM, I have tried to do is tap into the golden retriever soft side as much as possible, because all of that posturing worried me. I don't know if that thinking is plausable, but I try regardless.

    I have a butter soft girl, but I have been told TM's are this way with their owners. I won't really know how this is going to work out til she's around 3 yrs old or so, but so far, she's consistant & so am I & the posturing is a LOT less because she has a LOT of experiences observing things & learning they are not a threat.
  11. vizcarmb

    vizcarmb New Member

    This is why people would rather buy from a breeder then adopting. I get why they do what they have to do. They have to place them in a right home, but in GENERAL this nonsense has to stop. I know that there are people here that dont do their research and due diligence, but I believe the adoption agencies are their own worst enemy.Good info, it is making me think twice on this breed.

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