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I'm going to get a professional behaviorist.

elastigirl

Well-Known Member
Tessa gives the occasional "ear nibbles" instead of kisses.
She actually nuzzles my ear & nibbles my earlobe so lightly.
It comes out of nowhere, usually if I am sitting in my computer chair.
I am amazed at the control she has over her teeth considering she has those chops.
I am also thankful she is not a big drooler--usually it's a dry nibble.

I think I may be sometimes confusing her being territorial with her being affectionate...
I started to believe she was snuggling at bedtime-but what this is really amounting to is that she is laying against me so the cats cannot.
But I'll take that 'affection' any way I can get it, cuz that 1st few months I wasn't sure she liked me at all lol!!!

Ivy gives lots and lots and lots of kisses. She will sometimes be bothered to wag her tail if she sees us. Most often for my husband who is gone at work all day. When he arrives home, she *might* get up and wag for him. She'll kiss us all over hands, face and legs. She'll kiss new people as much as they'll allow it. But I was thinking this is because she's still such a baby. Maybe I was wrong ... reading your comment, Catia, wondering if this is part of her softer temperament. I hope so because I love the affection. Hope she doesn't get more aloof with us as she gets older.
 

broccolini

Well-Known Member
Athena has actually gotten more affectionate. I mean, it's still subtle but it's there.

She's still young though so that might change.
 

Catia

Well-Known Member
Elastigirl-- *Least Experienced* TM owner--??? Are you stealing my thunder??? :p I'll 'posture' you for that position!!!
You had the luxury of choosing a TM--so you were forwarned-at least somewhat. I was smacked upside the head with it!

I will say--puppyhood with a TM is like no other dog experience. Tessa was a big time 'posturer' from day 1 & was extremely stoic.

Play with your girls mouth a LOT-practice all of the 'soft mouth' stuff daily, like every time you feed her-hand feeding & not giving the whole thing at once.
Do this even if she has soft mouth mastered. It makes them more respect skin...
Also, I never let Tessa eat alone, I wanted her to be used to things moving around her while eating.
I used to hand feed Tessa, 3-4 times per day until she was 6 months & I cut back to twice daily feeding.
If I was feeling too tired to take that 1/2 hour, I'd sit on the floor with my hand in her food bowl with my hand covering most of the food-making her eat around my hand, sometimes removing the bowl 1/2 way through for a few min then giving it back. She always had to wait for her food.
Ivy's still young-make this part of her routine so she expects it.
 

Catia

Well-Known Member
Tessa definitely got more affectionate.
She did not seek contact/attention as a pup--I'd have to approach her.
I thought she didn't like me-wasn't sure we were bonding-even around 6 months.
I had never experienced an independent breed.

My girl is soft, & she's submissive, even though she does all of that posturing.
Though, she's never had a reason to defend herself or me.
She postures & makes people cross the street when we are out.
Not always, but enough to notice-it is usually people she hasn't seen before.
Like if a neighbor has visitors.
She postures til she decides it's OK. That's when you really see the TM in action. I can't move her when she does this, so I turn it into a sit & have to wait it out.

But despite all of that, she will lay right down & go belly up for the people (usually woman & kids) who make a fuss & fawn over her.
She will let any kids at the playground give her a belly rub-she goes all to pieces for kids.
Sometimes it's embarrassing!
That has got to be the golden retriever in her.
 

broccolini

Well-Known Member
Catia, Athena is exactly like that with most people.

Again, because of her age, I'm aware that might change. I have begun telling people that they can't pet her because I can see that she's becoming less tolerant of the attention her fluffy head draws.
 

elastigirl

Well-Known Member
Elastigirl-- *Least Experienced* TM owner--??? Are you stealing my thunder??? :p I'll 'posture' you for that position!!!
You had the luxury of choosing a TM--so you were forwarned-at least somewhat. I was smacked upside the head with it!

I will say--puppyhood with a TM is like no other dog experience. Tessa was a big time 'posturer' from day 1 & was extremely stoic.

Play with your girls mouth a LOT-practice all of the 'soft mouth' stuff daily, like every time you feed her-hand feeding & not giving the whole thing at once.
Do this even if she has soft mouth mastered. It makes them more respect skin...
Also, I never let Tessa eat alone, I wanted her to be used to things moving around her while eating.
I used to hand feed Tessa, 3-4 times per day until she was 6 months & I cut back to twice daily feeding.
If I was feeling too tired to take that 1/2 hour, I'd sit on the floor with my hand in her food bowl with my hand covering most of the food-making her eat around my hand, sometimes removing the bowl 1/2 way through for a few min then giving it back. She always had to wait for her food.
Ivy's still young-make this part of her routine so she expects it.

Yes, this is a daily thing with food. I normally feed Ivy each meal or sometimes the kids do it. She knows to wait and usually doesn't need reminders. If she does move her head towards the food before I give the "go ahead" release, my hand closes and food moves back. That's all it takes. (Tessa would eat for a half hour?! Ivy takes 5 minutes and she's done - only time she's ever eaten even close to what I would consider a "full" meal was day after surgery after she hadn't eaten for basically 30 hours). We do the same thing with going through doors - sit and wait - if she moves before I say "go ahead," the door closes again and we start from scratch.

I stand by my "Least Experienced" title! I might have had some knowledge beforehand, that is true. Reading books, websites, and talking to other owners only prepares you so much. But I have only had Ivy for 3 months. You've had Tessa for a year, so you definitely have more real-world experience. ;-)
 

mountainfila

Well-Known Member
Hey Broc, i was looking through your older posts to see if i could find an age on your girl as i thought she was older and i came across a picture of her in a thunder shirt, was just curious does she have issues with storms or is there other reasons?
 

Catia

Well-Known Member
I would purposefully drag out Tessa's feedings--because she ate so damn fast.
For 1 feeding per day I would make it a training/feeding, when working on eye contact-it took the longest-the others were a bit faster.
 

elastigirl

Well-Known Member
Ah, I understand. I do work on "look" or "wait" while feeding ... used to do more sits and downs but Ivy pretty much has those two down pat now, so I moved on. I am not patient enough to give one piece of food at a time ... so I do a small handful for each command.

I am a little stressed that Ivy's surgery has derailed her training. We are still consistent with "wait" at the door but in the last day it has gotten a lot harder for me to get her to take food so I had to break out the big guns (natural balance treat roll) and mix that in, and stopped making her work for it because I'm desperate for her to eat (or her diarrhea will get a lot worse). I haven't worked on much else since the surgery, except 'settle' each night (which is not going so great right now as she's very agitated from the pain). I don't have the heart to ask more of her - and I know it would likely be unproductive anyhow as she is just miserable anytime she's awake - but in my mind I'm seeing her 3 months of consistent training trickle slowly down the drain ...
 

Catia

Well-Known Member
elastigirl--don't worry--that training isn't trickling down the drain--I promise!!!! It's totally OK to give her a bit of a pass right now.

If there is one thing I learned about TM's--it's that "they get it" the 1st few times--Whether or not they carry it out is "a choice"...So everything you taught her so far is still there--she's just like a sick & cranky kid right now. Once that stress is over, you can pick up where you left off. The pain & the meds have everything to do with her resistance right now, she's just miserable--& she can't do much about it & the waiting it out while healing sucks for her just like with a kid.
 

cbwardco

Member
Stumbled onto your post after coming home frustrated by my 6mo TM, Betty.

95% of the time she is great towards other dogs- in dog, park on walks, in puppy class, in puppy social, other houses....
But then today I was sitting with her on a bench at my fav coffee shop, as we do regularly, and another dog-owner came and sat on the bench next to us. Betty really wanted to go great her and the other owner asked to say hi and I didn't think much of it. But then out of no-where tail-wagging turned to psycho-puppy for my TM and she went ballistic (you know, deep-throated, guttural, terrifying TM ballistic) on the other dog. No idea why. I don't know if it was the leash-thing (usually not an issue), or if MAYBE it was because about 10 min prior she had been drinking out of a cup of water that was still lying by the bench (sometimes shows resource guarding...but this was taking place away from the cup)....

No idea. I am very wary of her behavior and try to make sure I don't let her engage in a situation where I see trouble ahead, but like I said, she didn't show anything obvious and is usually fine!

The unpredictable nature of this type of dog aggression is particularly vexing. And I am wary to bring treats as a distraction into it due to some tendencies of resource guarding. Could possibly just make it worse. I guess worth a shot.

We separated them, I remained calm, I kind of held her tight and got in the path of her view of the dog as the other owner walked him away (obviously upset), told her "NO", pulled her attention away, and she calmed down. (Of course this was after ~40 ppl witnessed it and were terrified).

So sad and frustrating.
 

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ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I've said it before, but tail-wagging does NOT equal a calm friendly dog. Especially for these guys, but for any dog, the only time a wagging tail is indicitive of that is if the tail is held low (NOT up and curled) and gently wagging. If the tail is tucked, or if its up, and especially if its wagging hard, the dog is NOT calm, and any friendlyness can turn into agitation in a heartbeat.
 

cbwardco

Member
Yea...starting to learn that....

It's just so subtle, the difference between happy-wag and I'm-going-to-eat-your-dog-wag.

Learning.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
The faster the wag the more agitated the dog is (it can be friendly excitement agitation or it can be I'm going to eat your face agitation, but its NOT a calm dog), the higher the tail is held (the more curled) the more attention the TM is giving to the person/dog/item in question. Beyond that ignore the wagging tail, look at the ears (forward or back or relaxed), look at how the head is held (alert, relaxed, held low), body language (relaxed or tense), and keep in mind that in most situations these guys are NOT going to give you alot of warning so you have to keep a close eye on them.
 

cbwardco

Member
Thank you for the additional information. I will keep looking closer.

It's just so odd. I have no idea what set her off about this particular dog. As I said, it's more that 95% she's great, and then there are these times. I am just not seeing a pattern of what it is that could set her off intermittently. It really seems inconsistent at this point. I'm sure I am just missing a subtle cue/trigger though....She just seemed to go from mellow and languid to crazy-town as soon as that particular one came up. I am leaning towards something about the leash-situation. Might need to be more proactive when I have her leashed with treats/keeping focus on me when in social situations.

Dogs. Gotta love em.
 

broccolini

Well-Known Member
I find that if Athena is in the same place for any length of time, she claims it as her own and becomes very guardy about it. Were you on the bench for a while?

Athena is not allowed to interact with other dogs because she can't be trusted. The best I am trying to get out of her is to just ignore them. She also gets more angry at dogs that are extremely submissive. I don't know what to make of that. It seems extra mean but that's just who she is. :p
 

mccormicks

New Member
Hi, I'm new to this site and just came across this thread. I have a 5 year old TM that is also dog aggressive but only on leash. He was fine when we got him and is an AKC champ so had show experience. He started getting aggressive about 3 months after we got him. I did a lot of research before we got a TM (we had bred German Shepherds for many years) so I expected the independence ect, but this I did not expect! I hired a dog trainer and he told me small woman+ large strong independent dog=worse combination. We used a electronic training collar. I know many people would disagree with this method and I too had issues with it, but TM's are so smart that he "got it" real fast. I can adjust the strength and now he knows when it is on and he behaves. There is also a button that just sends a pulse and this is all that is needed now and only once in a while. It helps to keep him him next to me and listening to me when another dog approaches, I key into his response to the other dog and know when he is going to react. This collar has saved us! We live near a dog beach in a dog town and this has enabled us to enjoy many great outings! He is a big, strong dog and I don't feel this is painful, it just gets his attention before he gets in the zone of no return! I hope this helps. He is a house dog with free access to the back yard, walked daily and is almost never home alone. He also lives and is always been fine with my Tibetan Spaniel.