I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

[raechiemay]

I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

After reading through posts on this forum & seeing everyone's pictures of their pups I'm starting to doubt we got Duchess from a reputable breeder. I definitely let my heart choose more than my head in this situation & I'm thinking I'm going to pay for it. The breeder was super nice, it was their first litter & they seemed well educated on how to care for giant breeds. Not necessairly the breed standard. Their adult stock came from questionable backgrounds as he stated they had to somewhat "rescue" them from their previous situations. Duchess was clearly one of the two smallest females in the litter, I could tell that from looking at the breeder's pictures of the litter when they were 6 weeks old. Which is what we wanted. We wanted a small-ish fawn female. As I was glancing through those pictures & then seeing pictures from when we brought her home & what she looks like today I think she is a poor depiction of the breed standard. Essentially why I'm posting this in the breeder part of this forum is I'd like some ideas to help educate me properly so this trend does not continue to happen in my family. We made this mistake before with purchasing our first EM from a flea market (I know, I know...). Here's some pictures of our pup that I took today. I will refrain from stating where we purchased her from as I do not want to bash the people we got her from & I'm sure its against forum rules. I'd like for any of you knowledgable EM people &/or breeders to tell me exactly what you see from these pics & give me a little insight of what to look for next time. I realize I failed to do any significant amount of research on the breed prior to my purchase, I was just going off previous experience with our first EM & I know we wanted another one.

Also, is it customary for good breeders to remove dewclaws on pups? Our first EM didn't have dewclaws & Duchess does so I wasn't sure what the protocol was on that.





Forgot to add she is 37.6 lbs & stands 18 inches at the shoulder.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

I need to type in a great big post which will have to wait till I get home, but dew claws vary, its not un-common to leave them till the dog will be spayed/neutered unless they HAVE to be removed for showing/working.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

I apologize for the pics being so dark...even at 9 am it's already hot & gross outside.

 

[Jadotha]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Raechiemay,

How old is Duchess now? Pups do go through some odd growth phases -- where they get leggy, and/or 'teeter-totter (front legs and shoulders become high, then back legs and rear get higher).

In terms of assessing parents in the future, the best thing to do IMO is to study the breed standard and look at many many pictures of champions and influential and successful individuals from different bloodlines (e.g., Eng. Ch. Hollesley Medicine Man, Ch Lionhearted Maximum Power just as two examples). But I am sure there are breeders on this forum who have excellent champions as well if you check their websites.

If you look at the the 'Why Not to Support BYB's' thread, you will see some breeder red flags to look for when you are puppy searching.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

She is 4 months old. I've glanced through your thread on BYBs. It all makes sense to me. I got too caught up in the moment wanting another EM that I just let my impulses control.

 

[voidecho]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

She's a little cutie.

I'm not an expert on the breed standard at all, but it sounds like you really need to wait until she's full grown before you can tell. In picture #3, her body actually looks very similar to Lincoln and her height and weight are almost identical to him at 12 weeks. I will say her head seems a bit small, but she is a female and I'm guessing they should be smaller. Here's a side shot of Lincoln (laying down unfortunately). Not that he is, or I'd know if he's a good example of the breed by any means.

 

[m0rg4n]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

No matter what, I think Duchess is a pretty pup.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Thanks voidecho. I've noticed that ever since 8 weeks of age she had a small head. Her ears seem to swallow her face. Looking back she had a very runty appearance when I first got her at 8 weeks. One thing I notice the most is her mask is fading. She never had a full black mask. It seems to be fading more so as she ages, which looks more of dane coloring to me. But I could be totally wrong on that. I don't know anything about GDs.

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

No matter what, I think Duchess is a pretty pup.

Thank you! I try to look at it in the perspective that at least I know for sure one of the pups has a loving forever home with the best care. That's better than her going elsewhere & getting abused or neglected. I'm just ashamed for potentially paying a BYB for a puppy. :scared2:

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Double post.

 

[Robtouw]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Duchess is and always will be a beauty. Her body structure with her long barrel (mid body section) and rounded rear with the curved tail is all mastiff. Female mastiffs tend to be longer and more narrow in the face then males. Males tend to have wider heads and deeper masks. Some females loose most of their black masks and end up only with shading. She does have a small build, but quite a few female mastiffs tend to be leaner then males. Most pups are short and stocky with a nice wide chest and clunky legs! All mastiffs have huge ears as a puppy and they do grow into them. She does have the traditional mole or beauty spot marking on her face. Some pups that are a product of overbreeding do end up being smaller in build with lesser markings with almost no masking.

I don't think that you should say you made a mistake. While you may not have a pup that conforms to strict breed standard, I think she will grow to be a fine female. Dewclaw removal is pretty much up to the breeder. Some of mine had theirs but some were removed by the breeder. There are so many different breeding situations out there. It makes it hard to know what to look for and what not to. With your breeder indicating that his dogs had a "questionable" background it was almost impossible for him to guarantee his litter. Not making excuses for him, just stating. I assume that you were searching for a companion pup not a show pup because you bought from a small breeder/person instead of a reputable kennel. And if that is the case, a companion pup is what you have. As long as she continues to grow healthy and you are happy with her, I would not worry about her stock. If in the future you plan on obtaining a pup for showing then study up on breed standards, visit kennels with breeders that either show or handle and gain experience before adopting another. When I first became interested in the breed I found kennels in my state and the ajoining state that bred show pups and arranged visits, attended shows and got as educated on conformation as I could. They were for the most part extremely happy to educate. I found the ones who did not want to share their knowledge were not worth my time and were not as reputable as they advertised.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Rob, I appreciate your help here. While I'm not interested in showing with her or any future pup (I commend those of you that do it, I know it's a lot of hard work) I do agree that she will be strictly a companion pup. That is what is so great about this forum. I've learned things I had no clue about. You guys are great.

 

[Sherri]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

No matter what, I think Duchess is a pretty pup.

I think she is so sweet looking! When we decided to get an EM, I wasn't so worried about a Championship bloodline. I was really interested in the temperament and of course the health of the parents. Winston is our family dog and we love him no matter how much he snores, farts or if he had a great big wort on his nose! LOL

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

LOL Sherri! We have not had any "farts" with Duchess just yet but she is quite the snorer & boy does she have very interesting dreams. We often catch her growling, running, barking & making other weird noises in her sleep!

 

[Sherri]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

LOL Sherri! We have not had any "farts" with Duchess just yet but she is quite the snorer & boy does she have very interesting dreams. We often catch her growling, running, barking & making other weird noises in her sleep!

Believe me......It's a BOY thing!! Sweet little Duchess would never do that!! Well, I'm the only "girl" in the family......4 sons (16, 17, 18-1/2 and 21) Plus a husband! Winston is just taking after all the fellas in the family!! HaHa!

 

[Robtouw]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Ahh just wait, the farts come with age, promise! I've had both show and companions. My last two pups were meant for companionship and were chosen for their personalities. Cruiser has whte toes, kind of like abbreviated socks! Definately not a breed characteristic and I love them! He has the cutest feet! He mumbles alot in his sleep and also alot when he is awake and is pretty funny. I just fell in love with the EM breed from the first time I met one till now, they always seem to be able to surprise me!

 

[Smart_Family]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

If it makes you feel any better, Azzy came from a backyard breeder. Did I know that beforehand? Nope! As soon as I got her I fell in love and I wouldn't change her for the word but immdefinitely better educated now so in the future I know what to look for.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

I guess that goes to the girls don't fart? LOL! :lolbangtable:

Rob, I've seen some EMs have white toes. Even saw a mastiff/boxer mix that had all white feet. I thought it was adorable!!

 

[voidecho]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Lincoln's been farting like a champ since the day we got him. Not quite room clearing yet, but definitely close.

 

[Robtouw]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

Cruiser's white toes! This pic was taken at 9 weeks.

 

[raechiemay]

Re: I think I made a mistake...(oh & a question)

lincoln's been farting like a champ since the day we got him. Not quite room clearing yet, but definitely close.

lmao!!!!!

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------

I love Cruiser's white feet!