I feel Like the worst mother in the whole world...

[TMmom]

... and I am not even sure what I did wrong so I can fix it. So, she stole my can of fish food of the counter twice. The first time no problem getting it back because it wasn't open. The second time, she chewed off the bottom of the container onto my couch. When I went to get it she growled at me, so I grabbed her collar and she growled again. I was abled to talk her down, but she wasn't herself. What was this all about and where did I go wrong?

 

[musicdeb]

She must consider the fish food as high value and she was resource guarding it. Unacceptable behavior when she does it with you.

Try the following exercises to stop resource guarding.

Remove all treats, toys, bones from the floor. Do not allow the dog any treats, toys, bones or food until he has earned it. I recommend keeping all dogs separated while eating until the behavior is resolved because they may fight.

When you feed the dog, do the following:

Step 1.
Make them sit and watch you prepare their food. Put a little bit of food in the bowl, while they watch you. While they remains in sit, place the bowl on the floor. Tell them when they can eat. Point your finger at the bowl while having them look at the food, then click your fingers and tell them to "eat".

When they finish, repeat. Once they have perfected that task, then move onto to step 2.

Repeat Step 1.

Step 2.
While they are eating, put your hand closer and closer to the bowl and eventually put your hand in the bowl. While you do this, add a few pieces of food each time. Repeat Step 2 until they no longer growl or show teeth.

Re: treats/bones/toys. Give them those things while they are in the crate. Have the other dog(s) walk by them and sit by the crate while they have the treat/bone/toy. When they start to growl, tell them "no" in a calm, stern voice. Do not take the treat/bone/toy away from them because that is reinforcing the fear that someone is going to take it. Continue this exercise until they stop growling while the other dog(s) are around.

Once they have perfected the previous step, move them out of the crate. While on leash, allow them to have treat/bone/toy. Allow the other dog(s) to walk past. Give a tug of the leash if the dog growls. Tell them "no" in a calm, stern voice. Continue the other dog(s) walking past them until they stop growling.

This will require lots of patience. Consistency is key.

 

[TMmom]

Great thanks, She was doing that for toys and bones, so I've been keeping them apart for feeding no toys together and only if good. But fish food? It seems like anything edible. She was so mad at me, is grabbing her collar wrong?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Not nessecarily wrong? But I think for now anytime you need to remove something from her (assuming its not poison) always trade up, and only then (like this when you need to clean up) move her. At least till she and you reach an understanding on you taking things from her.

I don't think it applies in this case, but be aware that TMs will frequently produce a "I'm going to tear your face off" growl as part of PLAY. You'd swear they're about to kill someone, but they're playing. And it can take some experience to tell the play vs real growls apart.

 

[TMmom]

Ok thanks Ruth. So like give her a treat before taking the fish food away? and your right she sounded fierce and It made me nervous.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yup, something high value. Offer the treat with one hand and take away the item with the other.

Be aware that some dogs will then proceed to steal things specifically so they can get a treat. But that sort of behavior tends to be fairly obviously goofy....

 

[TMmom]

Thank you both for the info.

 

[Hector]

Grabbing collars is usually a threatening move in a situation like this. A dog with handler aggression would have bitten you. In my experience, it is best to try and remove the dog from the item they are guarding by command or some sort of distraction (trade up, getting ready for a walk/ride, etc.). Even in trade ups, sometimes the dog will not care what you have to offer, so you would need to somehow trade up and move the dog away from the item they are guarding.

In an emergency I would put a slip leash the dog and remove them if they refuse a drop it or leave it command.

I suggest working on drop it and leave it exercises and also practice grabbing their high value items really quick and leaving treats/food behind after you let go. It is also helpful to teach a dog to backup when a person approaches their food bowl or high value item. Of course you would start with things they don't care about and work from there. I don't know if that is possible with a dog that resource guards though and I haven't taught this either, but have seen videos on this.

In your situation, I would have told the dog "NO" and then "off" the couch. A lot of times the "off" command gets them off the couch and leave their things behind and of course your dog needs to know what these words mean first.

 

[TMmom]

Ok, great, I totally understand.

 

[TMmom]

See, I think my problem was I didn't realize she would be guarding the fish food. I thought nothing of just grabbing at it. That won't happen again.

 

[DennasMom]

Yeah, Fish Food??

It often does have a pretty aromatic scent, I guess?

I agree on working on trading-up for all the things she likes to guard (food, toys, etc.).... make sure you're not bribing her to give things up (or have a plan to wean off bribes, if you do start that way), but reward her for good behavior AFTER she gives things up. It's a small distinction, but mentally, it makes a difference.

 

[Catia]

Fish is seriously high value in my house-the stinkier the fish the better.

 

[TMmom]

LOL, funny, I guess I should have realized that.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

This is going to be the unpopular comment but I am going to say it anyway. I believe in positive training and definitely use it BUT in my world, growling at me is totally unacceptable. My dogs are happy, healthy and well adjusted...they are also big spoiled brats that have received praise and positive training from the moment they came home but the first thing they were taught is that there is no acceptable reason to threaten me EVER. I can take anything I want from them anytime and I don't trade up. It is definitely a personal choice and I am sure there will be tons of comments about how wrong I am but I am just putting it out there as another view. In my opinion there are things that are totally non negotiable and this is one of them. I am all for a treat AFTER the dog gives up the "thing" but trading up is not rewarding her for doing the right thing but bribing her and personally I think that is setting her up for failure.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

LOL, funny, I guess I should have realized that.

Fish...My Precious! Can = audience! Fish = Frenzy. The fish thing is one of the reasons I have considered animal reincarnation...WatchCat, is that you?

My dog doesn't resource guard with me, But, she's taken to guarding food when we have guests dogs over (learned by experience!) So, if I know they're coming the food goes up on the counter, I don't like seeing her gulping and growling.

BUT, Fishies...beautiful salmon, delectable sardines...Dog Chocolate!!!

 

[broccolini]

This is going to be the unpopular comment but I am going to say it anyway. I believe in positive training and definitely use it BUT in my world, growling at me is totally unacceptable. My dogs are happy, healthy and well adjusted...they are also big spoiled brats that have received praise and positive training from the moment they came home but the first thing they were taught is that there is no acceptable reason to threaten me EVER. I can take anything I want from them anytime and I don't trade up. It is definitely a personal choice and I am sure there will be tons of comments about how wrong I am but I am just putting it out there as another view. In my opinion there are things that are totally non negotiable and this is one of them. I am all for a treat AFTER the dog gives up the "thing" but trading up is not rewarding her for doing the right thing but bribing her and personally I think that is setting her up for failure.

I can see where you are coming from on this, Kris.

I would just like to say that I would never push this issue with a TM. Especially one with a harder edge like I think Laufey will have. I could do what you are describing with my male and it would work. He's very soft, though. I can't even imagine what I'd have to do to get him riled up.

I almost certain if I tried that with Athena, I'd be getting bit. And I haven't found anything that I can't take from her. She's very good about letting me have anything that's in her mouth. But if she growled at me, I wouldn't push my luck.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it here. These dogs are seriously convinced that they are your equal. They mostly just take what you want into consideration. And that's not a deficit of an individual dog. It's how they were intended to be.

Athena is very deferential toward me, but I'll never let me think that means I can force an issue with her. Even if did so without getting bit, I don't think she'd ever trust me again. They are serious about their grudges.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I hear what you are saying Broc BUT therein lies the problem. If Athena grabbed a poisonous frog and considered it high value...What would you do? If she grabbed a hold of a child's arm? A sharp object?

I understand the TM's temperament and I have an EM that believes he is equal as well. Very driven, independent, capable BUT it is my responsibility to be able to control him. Regardless of breed......you have to be the leader. They should respect you......

As for trust....I see it the opposite way. My dogs trust me completely which is exactly why I can take anything from them, get them to do anything I need them to without being threatened in anyway. If ever they need my help because they are hurt, could get hurt, are dong something dangerous or hurting someone else........They trust me to know what is best for them.

I trust them, they trust me...Without that, it is a pretty scary situation.

There are so many things that could happen and if you aren't able to do anything you need to do to/for our dogs many of those things can go very wrong for them and others.

 

[TMmom]

I have to tell you I am glad you used that word, grudges. I totally could tell once we all settled down she was mad at me. Totally had an attitude.

 

[TMmom]

I'd really like to hear more on these train of thought's. Broc, you mentioned Laufey having a harder edge, can you please explain this?

 

[Hector]

You really can't push certain dogs otherwise you really risk getting bit. You can beat Buddy upside the head and he still wouldn't even think about growling. He just wouldn't. If you pushed Hector while he is already defensive and showing aggression, he will attempt to bite. Trust me, I have pushed him on multiple occasions and see how much he can take and he lunged. Would he actually bite? I really don't know, but lunging is a clear indication to me that he will because his fight instincts are much stronger than his flight. He's nervous and will react anytime he feels nervous or trapped. I'm really not strong enough to fight 125lbs of muscle, so I choose to train him different commands and use that when I need to. I do not reward moments of aggression towards me. We punish by sending him to his crate and he knows that. By doing that, we don't ever have to get near him or even touch him to resolve the situation. From there on, either step up with the training or step up on management.

When a person attempts to use dominance/force on any dog, the person needs to be prepared to fight because that is what it boils down to.

You also can't really reward after the dog trades up without bribing or luring to create the "give up" behavior in the first place and I'm talking dogs that are resource guarding a high value item. If the dog gives up the item without any prior training to "give up", the dog is not guarding the item in the first place.

RK - I am curious as to how you would correct a dog in a situation that is resource guarding against you? Do you pin them? Do you risk getting bit by taking the item away? Do you test them with the same high value item until they stop growling? What advice would you give the OP in her situation?