First Heat for a Tibetan Mastiff - When to Expect?

[elastigirl]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone could tell me from your experience approximately when I should expect Ivy to go into heat ... she is just over 10 months old (born 12/22/13). I don't plan to spay until close to age 2 but I do *not* want any accidental puppies. No interest in breeding, I'm just delaying the spay so as not to affect her growth.

We have a 6 foot fence but it's welded wire. My vet tells me dogs can breed through a chain link fence ... so I am thinking to be safe Ivy will need to be crated inside when I am not home. This is going to make for an unhappy dog.

I've never been through this, having owned only male dogs or female rescues (who of course have to be spayed) in my adult life. So a little nervous about getting through it. It dawned on me that she won't be able to go to obedience or doggy daycare (at least I assume they would not want her there in heat!). I know, duh ... but this is all new to me ... so any help is appreciated.

Thanks.
gina

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

I brought my dog to a higher lvl OB training during heat and it was fine. They are on leash and my trainer didn't mind. I would daycare is a big no though.

Try to bring her out alot in the yard still but ya you will have to watch her with a chain link fence. You can still walk her etc but be ready to chase off off leash males. Try your best to not just keep her locked up even though it takes more of your time so she doesn't get frustrated etc.

 

[Myre]

I am glad you asked this question. I have been wondering when to expect Kaylee's first heat, too.

 

[elastigirl]

We usually get two long walks a day and the places we go, dogs are never off leash - owners are very respectful - so I think walks will still be OK. I'm more worried about when I'm working and have to have her in her crate in the house. I am able to come home for a lunch break, so it's not a very long stretch - but I feel bad having her inside all day as she loves nothing more than being out in the yard.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

What would happen if you left her loose in the house? Does she destroy alot? Maybe a thought to try. I started giving my girl free range at 10 months (not basement as cat litter etc). She did ruin a bit when in heat as she chewed a bit during her heat as she chewed more but before and after her heat she was fine and is never crated now but we still have it. Minor drywall dmg in one spot.

 

[elastigirl]

She's had some resource guarding issues, so I try not to have her be free in the house when I am gone. On the advice of my trainer, it's part of the *grand plan* to keep her understanding that she is not the boss. ;-) I'm not worried about damage (she's been very well behaved up til now and not a chewer by nature) as much as backsliding on our training. We have put a lot of work into changing her attitude and I don't want her to think things are going to be different, if you know what I mean.

To give you an example ... I have hand fed her since she was a pup. Was advised to continue the hand feedings to prevent food guarding. The ONE TIME I set the bowl down (she was dropping food all over the grass - we were outside - and I didn't want to miss any pieces and cause a problem with guarding later) she growled at me as soon as I reached to pick up some dropped pieces. Seriously, I can't give an inch. I love her to death but she requires 100% from me, all the time. Just cannot change the routine or I fear bigger problems will result.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

Maybe, I am just crazy, but I see how not leaving toys or food or other guarding material out etc when you do not allow her to have it can teach her these items are yours but I don't get the whole "grand plan" unless there are other issues too. I don't think a TM is resource guarding food because she thinks she is the boss but I am not a dog trainer etc. I would think you would have many issues if she thought she was the boss not just that issue...does she act "dominate" or the "boss" in other ways or is that her only issue (on leash when walking or anything)? We got luckier than you it seems as our dog did trainer out of the resource guarding pretty young in a week or two but it took her longer with other animals in the house but now that seems to be an issue of the past *knock on wood* (she is 22 months now). Does your trainer have LGB experience? I mean, I see how that would work with my uncles Dobe but I think my dog would have just got more frustrated the more I crated her up, though I suppose she has different issues than your dog. Would I let her growl at me though...nope I would try to solve the issue...so don't think I am saying to accept that because I am not just wondering if she is really getting the message or the problem is being addressed.

Oh by the way my girl went in heat in Sept at about 10.5 months...forgot to answer you question above. I think the norm is Sept to Nov for TMs but can fall later like Dec, Jan, Feb too or there would not be April littres. I hand fed my girl a lot too...so much she still doesn't really eat out of a bowl as she looks at me but aren't you going to pick it up? but since she eats raw I just throw it on a towel for her.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

Oh nvm I read your past posts on other threads and the trainer has TM experience you said she worked with Ivy's mom who had this prob more extremely than most. I am not sure it is really solving the problem but if it worked with her...(and I am no professional trainer by any means). If she needs to stay in and created at that time just throw in more walks and exercise (mental as well).

 

[elastigirl]

Yes, all I know is Ivy's disposition has changed completely from her being a complete ass with me and the kids to understanding that she is not the boss - so I trust my trainer and don't want to screw things up now! And I want to stress she is not crated a lot. I only work part time and if the weather is nice she will be out in her fenced yard ... it is just during her heat that I will not be able to leave her out.

 

[Tiana]

When my girl had her cycle, her behavior did not change that much, however she did urinate a lot more. Because we have two dogs (male and female) we would keep one in the front yard and the other in the back yard.

I actually have never had any resource guarding issues with either of my TM's. From the time we brought them home, we could do anything with them, take their food or toys, and they would not growl or bark at us for doing so. The only time they bark at us is when they are talking or trying to tell us something. For example, my girl might see someone come onto our property, she would run into the house and finds someone, goes up to whoever she finds, barks once to let us know someone is coming, then runs back out.

 

[elastigirl]

I really didn't want this thread to be about Ivy's RG issues - honestly, though I'm thrilled for those of you that have not had a problem with RG, it's incredibly disheartening for me to read comments that suggest that I might be crating too much, not managing her behavior, or otherwise. I apologize because I know I am very sensitive about this topic. This is a dog that at the age of 9 weeks attacked me over a pile of vomit. This is not behavior I or my family caused. My trainer has explained that in many cases with TMs there is a genetic component, and in fact Ivy's mom did have some serious RG issues as well. We did everything we could to squash her instinct to RG and finally turned to professional trainers when it became clear, at the age of about 6 months, that we could not handle this problem on our own. It took me three tries before I found a trainer that could help. The first two simply didn't have a clue about Tibetan Mastiffs and all the "purely positive" training simply was not effective in changing Ivy's behavior. I have invested considerable time and money in Ivy's training. It was all worthwhile because I love this dog to pieces, but if we could please get off the subject now and back to heat, I would really appreciate it.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

I don't think you crate her too much was just suggesting the house free thing since she can't have as much of her free time outside during that time. If you only work part-time I am sure you can throw in a few extra activities and she will be fine. She may act a little different during that time...some dogs get DA when in heat like Mooshi, some dogs get more guardy during that time or anxious or some don't change at all. I remember my girl last year got a little more pushy with the cat during that time and was more anxious if strangers approached but did go back to be confident after. Since they have long fur it probably won't make much of a mess and I didn't diaper my girl in the house but I have no carpets either. Its not really that big of a deal and I am sure you will do fine! Oh one more thing my girl did have a false pregnancy last year after her heat so if Ivy does and you have any questions I can tell you about my girl. She dropped over 10lbs during the false as she didn't eat basically for a long time and she produced milk.

 

[elastigirl]

Thanks for the info, I will know not to freak out if Ivy starts lactating! ... and we don't have carpet either so I'm not terribly worried about the floors, but I emailed my trainer and she does have to wear a diaper to class, so I guess there will be some amusing photos taken!

 

[elastigirl]

OK, so there were some drops of blood on the floor today - so is this the beginning of heat? The middle? Ivy had been licking herself quite a bit the last few days and I was wondering ...

Can anyone tell me how long their dog's heats last?

Thanks.

 

[jpw0025]

Heat cycles typically last about 21 days. Bleeding can be anywhere from a few days to the whole stretch of that unfortunately, and it looks like you're closer to the beginning than the end right now Good luck!

 

[Tiana]

Red is the start. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong, but it goes from Red, Pink, to clear. Its the pink stage when they want to breed, although they could in the clear as well. It is hard to see the color at times because like Ivy, my girl also kept licking herself. My girl's cycle lasted almost an entire month. When it gets to the the clear stage it is hard to tell when its over. I know this is not the best way to figure it out, but I knew when my girl's cycle was over when my boy didn't want to get at her, which was almost an entire month after I noticed the red.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

Its the start. Avg is 21 days. Gets lighter in the middle. She will get all swollen in the area and flag when ready. Males will like her the whole time.

 

[elastigirl]

Thanks everyone. Poor girl is miserable today ... lethargic and grumpy. Not that I blame her!!

 

[cbwardco]

Ha. Understand your concern.

My first intact bitch was an eye-opener (completely different breed, Vizsla).

But anyways, Betty Bear just went into her first heat as well (DOB 1/11/14). Haven't noticed anything particularly new about her behavior. Just the same old little brat

I have never had any issues with the classic story of "dogs through the fence" etc. As long as you are aware and don't take her to places where you cannot control the situation, it is really quite easy to manage.

[Although it's funny reading through this post- I have been battling her over RG as well and it has really been coming along fairly well- but then just tonight she puked for the first time in a while and we had a little showdown. I went to her crate (and yes, I am a total believer in the crate. I have been giving her a little liberty here and there for an hour or two but definitely don't trust an animal with that much defiance...even one that is not a destroyer/chewer at all) to clean it up and she got that crazy-eye and kinda snapped at me for a second.
But ever since I started standing my ground and giving her a really stern conversation and look when she does that stuff it has been getting better. In fact, I was shocked that after one little snarl from her tonight and an intense stare-down, she backed down and I was able to clean it up (even though she was still a little on edge). Even though everyone I have met has said "do the positive training, don't ever try to dominate your dog", I didn't make any ground until I had a couple good "put her on her back" sessions to combat her wolf-like behaviors. Has been a game-changer. If you are confident enough and strong enough, it may be something to consider. Food for thought.]

Anyways, heat is not as scary as it seems. Just make sure you have a system to protect furniture

 

[elastigirl]

The furniture is fine and we have wood floors, so it really hasn't been an issue. We keep the mop out but honestly I'm the only one in the house who isn't apparently bothered by a couple drops of blood. I think today is around Day 9 so we should be about halfway through. I'm allowing Ivy out on her tie-out as long as I am monitoring. I honestly don't think we have any intact dogs close enough to have to worry about. I have seen none.

She's super affectionate which is very unusual for her so I am thinking that is because of the heat. Would love for her to stay this way. We shall see.

Oh, the last time she snapped at me over a food bowl you better believe I was on top of her in about a tenth of a second. I am pretty strong and not afraid to put her down. I agree, sometimes it is warranted. Her behavior has actually been quite a bit more mellow since she started her heat. Again, not sure if this is a permanent change but I am liking it so far. Might be partially because she is getting not much freedom. Ivy tends to get 'uppity' if she is allowed to run free in the yard too much. I can't explain why but there is a definite correlation. She gets two long walks/hikes each day - usually an hour or more - so she gets plenty of exercise but is only allowed about an hour to roam in the yard as she pleases, because if she gets more than that we will almost certainly have an RG issue that night.