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CC Colors according to AKC standards

Selina

Member
I am replying specifically to the question of brindle points. It is not a DQ. Unfortunately, it is a grey area of the standard that needs to be
Addressed when the standard is changed.
The DQ is for tan markings not brindle. Tan markings are evidence of defilement of another breed. These are not recent crosses. The outcrosses go back generations. If your puppy has tan markings it could be because of outcrosses to Rottweilers in the 80s. The reason tan markings are not accepted is they did not appear in Italian dogs only American dogs. Since it was not part of the breed in the country of origin it is considered undesirable.
Brindle markings are different and were known in Italy. The most famous example being Plud.
There are AKC champions with brindle markings. It is not preferred but is not a DQ.
If you go to Cane Corso Association of America - AKC Parent Club of the Cane Corso this is discussed under Beyond the Standard. This is the interpretation that is given to judges.

Selina
 

terzo corso

Well-Known Member
I really don't think that the black and tan Bull Terrier and the English Bulldog posted is from outcrossing with a rott in the 80's.

What about the b and t New Guinea dog?


There are also black and tan chihuahua,the color must come from rott crossings?
ChihuahuaViansBigMacAttackMac3.jpg
 

Selina

Member
I am referring specifically to Corsos not those other breeds. Along with the marking comes other physical characteristics associated with the Rotties. Read the link I referenced. It points out several faults that are associated with Rotties.
The tan markings were bred in this country into the 90s. It wasn't until the Italian imports became so popular that the tan markings fell out of favor.
I have another breed in which dilute(another recessive gene) is extremely rare. I produced a dilute. The dog in my pedigree that was responsible appear numerous times but the closest he appeared was 6 generations back.
The recessive tan markings will never disappear from this breed even if a corso with tan markings is never bred again. Those recessive genes will hide for generations.
The only italian source that could have provided the tan markings is the Segugio Italiano, but since Corsos with tan marking in Italy weren't't seen it wouldn't be likely.
 

Selina

Member
It is not a secret Sottile's wife bred Rotties. The Rotties crosses are known. Are you arguing that Rotties weren't crossed into he breed?

They were. As were boxers, dogues, am staffs, boerbols and god knows what else.

Selina
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
I really don't think that the black and tan Bull Terrier and the English Bulldog posted is from outcrossing with a rott in the 80's.

What about the b and t New Guinea dog?


There are also black and tan chihuahua,the color must come from rott crossings?
View attachment 33492


I am not sure how this pertains to the corso but if the Black and Tan was seen in these breeds when the standards were set then it was written in. The argument is this was not the case with the Cane Corso and that is why it is not written in the standard. That is why there is the rumor that the rottie was bred into the American line corsos (not agreeing or disagreeing with this, wasn't there and prefer not to guess at what did or did not happen) as it does not express when using Italian bred dogs (or so it is said).
 

terzo corso

Well-Known Member
They can have white on the chest or not, either way is fine. The white is not supposed to be huge like a tuxedo pattern. As for the statement that Shauna made in that comment, I believe she is referring to the comparison of hyper type vs a great example of the breed who has the points. Given those as one's only options I agree, I would use the pointed dog as well over the boxer type that she is referring to. However, given a third option of a great Corso with out points or a hypertype dog, who has the structure, bone, type and temperament it is a no brainer :)

That seems perfectly logical to me.


But I very much don't agree with (my perception) of your suggestion of ONLY using 2013 CC's to breed to other 2013 CC's.....in order to keep a 'breed purity" if you will....that has never been in the best interests of any working breed.IME.

Now,I could be misunderstanding you,so my apologies are offered if that is the case.:)







Also,Mrs. DeMoss comments on this topic in the link that was provided paragragh 7
Considering the small gene pool, I would not be surprised if outside genetics were brought in to shore up the first dogs. I think there is some evidence of this, but I think it’s limited. I think the Rott and Neo would be an excellent choice to do this as both those breeds have their foundation in a common ancestor as the Corso. The Rott would bring solid working structure and the Neo would reinforce the mass. Am I freaked out? Nope. Adding a little here and there is the process in every recovery/recreation of a breed. They were doing the same thing, at the time, in Italy. I’ll talk about what I learned personally, under the second wave.

and paragraph 15
Realizing there is a little something, something in the wood pile can be very disturbing. Especially if we are new to the recently recovered breed process. But these are the facts and really they aren’t too bad. We just need to pay attention to those traits that are not Corso and breed away from them. If you throw a puppy with a rocker jaw, maybe you need to go find a line that was in the first or second wave to get a square jaw back. If you end up with a bunch of black and tan, parallel plains heads, maybe you need to go hunt up a balanced modern Corso to help with that. We are not in a place where we can pretend we are not just a couple steps up from reconstruction. We are not in a place other breeds are and won’t be for a hundred years. A good breeder will embrace the truth and work towards balance, breeding for solid Corso traits and away from other influences.
 

terzo corso

Well-Known Member
Not sitting here waving a flag of anti-standard(s) if it sounds that way :eek: My view is they(organizations) could all give a bigger nod to the various functions and different forms that these dogs morphed into........while employed in different regions of its home country.


Just wish the standard was written with more leeway. Just looking at random corsi in this thread,some in same homes......the dogs just look "different" but are the same.

As Corso owners,we can all see that,and still accept them as ours and reply positively regardless of how close it is in the standard(or out).This is the same mentality that was shared among those who originally needed these dogs to work.There was expected diversity.


Of course,Non-owners and general public will just see a mixed pitbull anyway:eek::eek:
 
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Cody

Well-Known Member
I am not sure I understand what you are asking? Or saying? I am agreeing that the influence of other breeds is apparent in the Corso. We all know it is there, no one is denying that. However it is time to be breeding away from those influences, not breeding the pointed dogs, not breeding the BM/Boxerelli type and focusing on the Corso as a breed. I am not sure what you mean by 2013 CC??? Modern type dogs??? If you knew me or anything about the lines I have you would know how very far from that I am ;) The CC standard is still form follows function. You can say that this doesn't matter in the standard cause 50 years ago the farmer didn't care as long as it worked, that is true. However 50 years ago there was no BREED of Cane Corso, there was a type, a generic term... there is the mythical unicorn of a Mastino Italiano. Every person has a different idea of how this romantic dog was in type and temperament. There are many legends of these dogs, but in actuality that is what the stories are; romanticized versions of farm dogs in an impoverished area of another country. My bitch comes from these very dogs, her sire is a old school working CC from a farm in Southern Italy that has been breed their CC for generations. Very few knew of them or their dogs prior to her litter. Her Dam from Southern Italy as well, old farm lines. That said she still conforms to all of the CC standards out there, form follows function. Funny enough, I have been told that my girl is not a "real" Corso as she is a working therapy dog and real CC cannot fufill that role LMAO. Again, her litter is old rustic lines, first generation off the farm but according to the myths she is not true CC temperament.
 

terzo corso

Well-Known Member
If you knew me or anything about the lines I have you would know how very far from that I am ;) .

Since finding and looking through this forum,I've probably read more of your posts in the CC section than anyone else actually. I respect and appreciate the info and experience in them all,and enjoyed reading. Think I saw some agility work too:cool:.


Also,Thanks for the info on your gyp,will have to look back at her pics with even more admiration now. Saw a facebook link to a breeder you posted too,great photos there:)

Keep up the good work.
 

terzo corso

Well-Known Member
Cody,here is some background on the dam of my current pup:





She is a Sicilian Cane Guzzo, and her "out crosses" are Sicilian based Maltese and Branchiero (which can throw Black and tan and always have, like other Alano types) types. She works all day long. She is small for most people here but hell, how effective is a large boney dog on a farm? She is a tightly line bred for(PIG) farm work.
[video=youtube_share;nbyEBeWw-PI]http://youtu.be/nbyEBeWw-PI[/video]
 

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terzo corso

Well-Known Member
His sire is a grizzly old boar-catching,weight pulling champion,living out his days somewhere below the Mason-Dixon line. Off of Umberto Leone stock, tough sun o' gun seems to have misplaced an eye one day out in the woods.:eek:
Nov12 016.jpgNov12 012.jpg
 

Cody

Well-Known Member
Like I said it happens on both sides of the Ocean, has no bearing on the validity of the pup, it is just not a dog I would choose to breed. I would not say it comes just from American lines, as I have seen it in litters overseas as well. Here is a question, lets say it is WWII, a German soldier is in rural Southern Italy with his big working Rottie. He comes across a farmer with a mastiff type bitch who is in heat. Do you really think that the farmer is going to ask the soldier for his CC pedigree before the Rottie mounts the bitch ;) The Corso was a glorified banddog, with a history in the region, from my understanding type/size changed from one area to the next depending on influences and needs. Doesn't make it any less of a Corso, or affect the dogs workability. Trouble is right now for the CC, it has become a breed and there is no uniformity. A lab for example, you can look at a lab and you know what you are looking at, although yes I know there are Bench Labs and Field Labs, but that is another conversation. In the Corso you don't, depending on what lines/breeder was went with. It is a baby breed in essence and it is now that the foundation for the breeds future is being laid. The standard is what we have to go on, do I agree with all of it? No, I really don't, but it is the breeds guide line for the future. And IMO until the breed is established and has a modem of consistency, it needs to be adhered to.
 

Cody

Well-Known Member
Oh and I thought I would post this link if you haven't seen it :) Lots of older Italian dogs including a few shots of Rawr's daddy ;) http://www.canecorsonancy.info/italy.htm Also if you are on FB and friends with Shauna DeMoss, she does have an interesting photo album of her trip to Italy in 2000 and her visit to Umberto Leone's kennel.