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Cafib 35th anniversary show

zebraworks

Well-Known Member
Is it really easy to find out if said dog was approved with the ideals of the CAFIB ethics and morals in mind?. No. Absolutely not.

I don't get it?? of course there is due diligence required for the buyer and reputation of the creator is paramount in this pursuit. Are you trying to say that people may lie about the actual parents of the dog? otherwise I don't understand this because I do not think there is any history that I have heard that dogs were given positive marks in evaluations that did not deserve them.
 

aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
If a puppy comes from Itanhandu it is a Cafib dog wether it was an approved breeding or not, if the parent was approved or not or grandparents etc. Do you think all itanhandu breedings are approved breedings of approved parents? Do you think they have all been hip tested, well they must of missed a few of those. You can tell yourself whatever sounds good to make yourself feel better, and then there is reality. There are Cafib dogs with CBKC pedigrees, most of them in fact. But I have never seen nor has anyone produced a Cafib issued pedigree for a Fila. Like I said that must mean with over "10,000 dogs in their database" they have produced nothing approved successively for at least 3 generations so they had parents and grandparents to document and issue a pedigree. If anyone has a Cafib issued pedigree with lineage post it up.
 

zebraworks

Well-Known Member
If a puppy comes from Itanhandu it is a Cafib dog

you can say that it comes from a kennel that follows the CAFIB standard and a kennel that has many dogs evaluated. But that pup will only be approved on its own by an evaluation by a CAFIB approved judge, if it is evaluated and is disqualified it would not be "CAFIB"

But the acronym CAFIB stands for a club anyhow.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
Yes. I think people will misadvertise anything to make a sale, be it dogs or cars or anything. The approval list should be more readily available. I can advertise my next litter as CAFIB and the process of proving that is really difficult, especially for someone new to the dogs, new to the dogs usually meaning in the market to buy. CAFIB is a great selling tool as well as a tool to improve the dogs, and either is only viable to the person willing to use them, good and bad.


I don't get it?? of course there is due diligence required for the buyer and reputation of the creator is paramount in this pursuit. Are you trying to say that people may lie about the actual parents of the dog? otherwise I don't understand this because I do not think there is any history that I have heard that dogs were given positive marks in evaluations that did not deserve them.
 

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
If I say I want a cafib dog, I get sent to a breeder. Yes we all know what a technicality is. But in public opinion. technicalities dont get charges thrown out. As long as a cafib believer sends one to a cafib breeder to buy a cafib dog, the test that dog needs to pass to make it official, sure as shit wont stop that person from talking bout their cafib pup. Yes "technically" it has yet to be approved. But technically, you are the only person who will care for that excuse when a dude paid 1500 bucks for a cafib dog, from a cafib breeder, referred by a cafib believer, from talking shit about his cafib dog. This is where perception is reality. The technicality dont matter to anyone who aint benefiting from it. It means the world to you, as a cafib person as it keeps your cafib name out of mud. It sounds shaddy as shit to someone buying a pup off of the cafib breeder strictly because it's "cafib"
 

zebraworks

Well-Known Member
chuck, EVERYONE is in that same situation when they buy any pup.

that includes the breeders themselves if they buy a pup from somebody else.
 

zebraworks

Well-Known Member
. I can advertise my next litter as CAFIB and the process of proving that is really difficult, especially for someone new to the dogs, new to the dogs usually meaning in the market to buy.

like buying a car, computer, etc. doing your homework in advance is pretty important instead of falling victim to getting sold over-priced junk by failing to educate yourself to cut through the rhetoric you might be getting fed. this is just another example of that. It is amazing that some people can have positive experiences with a model of vehicle, restaurant, hotel, etc. while somebody else has polar opposite opinions and experiences with the same things.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
Very true. Car dealers have lemon laws. Computers have warranties. These warranties and laws protect the consumer by allowing the the opportunity to repair, exchange or get their money back. There are no such laws in dogs, and that includes the people under the CAFIB mindset.
If Joe Blow breeds two black dogs, call them Filas, sells them for $$$$, they are crap and does not stand behind what he bred, he is a BYB of mongrel dogs. He gets trashed, by both sides of the fence. The CAFIB family circles the wagons when one of their own do the same.
There are several scam reports on Linda Maggio (Ramey) (of Boa Sorte and Itanhandu fame) where she ripped people off with sub-par animals. Itanhandu the same way. I do not see the CAFIB brethren all over them on these deals.
I understand the refund/guarantee.

E=zebraworks;155193]like buying a car, computer, etc. doing your homework in advance is pretty important instead of falling victim to getting sold over-priced junk by failing to educate yourself to cut through the rhetoric you might be getting fed. this is just another example of that. It is amazing that some people can have positive experiences with a model of vehicle, restaurant, hotel, etc. while somebody else has polar opposite opinions and experiences with the same things.[/QUOTE]
 

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
I was never in that position. I did not buy a dog based on cafib ideals nor from a cqfib sponsored breeder. Mt breeder did not sale me on the all mighty cafib and how they make the best dogs. I wa not told how shitty the non cafibs are and how it's a gamble to go with any other than cafib.

So no, we are not all in that position.

It is nothing like buying a car. Now if you walked in the dodge dealer and they explained how the toyota had weak steel and the trans blow, and brakes dont work.... Then I bought a dodge.... Then I lift the hood only to find that the dealer say's it's a dodge, and talked all that shit about toyota, but I actualy bought a toyota.

Then that would be the same
 

Cody

Well-Known Member
These are dogs, there are no guarantee's with anything. You can buy a fantastic pup and it can fall apart at 1, have seen it happen. I am not really on any side here as I have no vested interest in the Fila, besides thinking are cool dogs. I learn a lot from these threads, but know enough to know that dogs are a crap shoot. The best one can do as a purchaser is their homework, go to a proven breeder and really hope for the best. In ANY breed.
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
Well said. And very true. But there are a few breeders who understand this but still stand behind their dogs. There are other breeders that use this as an out to keep the money. And like you say that is across the board with any breed. I really do not have any vested interest in either group because I do not believe in either. It falls to the individual dog from that individual breeder. There is no group or club or mindset that has a monopoly on the good dogs. There is no group that can throw stones because someone on their side of the argument is living in a glass house. Across the board with all breeds.
Finding a breeder that stands behind their dogs til adulthood are few and far between. I breed my beagles for my personal hunting use. The dogs I do no think will make it I usually give away to a friend or buddy who has a kid and looking for a pet. In twenty years I have sold maybe 8, possibly ten dogs. I do not have a contract. I shake a guys hand, look him in the eye and simply say, "You have two years to figure out if he is working for you, if not, bring him back and I will give you your money back". I do not promise anything from the next litter, or put them on a list, or have a contract out to keep their money. But liek I said before money makes a difference. I sold beagles for $200 tops, not $2000 plus. So when the money gets high the morals seem to fade. S




These are dogs, there are no guarantee's with anything. You can buy a fantastic pup and it can fall apart at 1, have seen it happen. I am not really on any side here as I have no vested interest in the Fila, besides thinking are cool dogs. I learn a lot from these threads, but know enough to know that dogs are a crap shoot. The best one can do as a purchaser is their homework, go to a proven breeder and really hope for the best. In ANY breed.
 

aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
Finding a breeder that stands behind their dogs til adulthood are few and far between. I breed my beagles for my personal hunting use. The dogs I do no think will make it I usually give away to a friend or buddy who has a kid and looking for a pet. In twenty years I have sold maybe 8, possibly ten dogs. I do not have a contract. I shake a guys hand, look him in the eye and simply say, "You have two years to figure out if he is working for you, if not, bring him back and I will give you your money back". I do not promise anything from the next litter, or put them on a list, or have a contract out to keep their money. But liek I said before money makes a difference. I sold beagles for $200 tops, not $2000 plus. So when the money gets high the morals seem to fade. S


Its much easier to guarantee a dog long term if you give or sell dogs to friends and people you know locally. But if you ship dogs especially a large/giant bred dog it would be hard to guarantee anything but hips when you don't know the quality of care or environment that dog will be in. Even on the hips, dogs can and do injure hips which would keep them from passing a OFA test even though genetically they were good.
 

zebraworks

Well-Known Member
yeah, well who wouldn't be skeptical of claims if they are long distances away and a large amount of money is involved and you can't really judge for yourself short of taking a flight somewhere. This is not realistic dealing with complete strangers.
 

mountainfila

Well-Known Member
well some breeders play on the long distance issue, they prefer to sell long distance as they demand to have the dog back before replacement and all at the owners expense and then they must pay for the shipment of the replacement pup. And its not just the flight expense, you now have a middle man in brazil being a "broker" to make sure that your puppy "gets to were its going". And dont forget by the age of 2 your pretty attached to this dog and what are the chances your not going to send him back to brazil to an unknown fate. So yes i will never import a dog just because if something goes wrong you are up the proverbial creek lol no thanks
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
Very true. I felt I would get that response. Here is my reply. I bought a dog from Alaska and had it shipped to North Carolina. I paid $1200 for the dog. I paid about $400 for shipping, It was summer and it took two tries to get him on the plane based on temperature upon arrival in NC. I paid $80 for a crate. $1700 expenditure. The dog gets here and is a picture of health. My vet agreed. As healthy as any 14 week old puppy he had seen. All is well. A week later he is lethargic and will not eat. In the midst of testing we get a call from the breeder. Other dogs in the litter are experiencing kidney failure. Ours too. We had to put him down at 15-16 weeks old. The rest of the litter as well.
We signed a contract just like any one else does. The breeder gave me two options. Take another puppy from the next litter and they cover shipping and we buy the crate. The next option blew me away. We will refund your money, as well as the shipping with the exception of the crate, since we keep the crate. The breeder says he would tear up their contract if I would tear up mine. They refunded the money for 4 of the 6 sold, one from a subsequent litter and we took the male from a previous litter. They paid shipping and we bought another crate.
So if one breeder can stand behind their dogs like that I can't see why others would not as well. If one can do it there is no reason more can't. S