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Breeding with a male with seizures

AKBull

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sorry kids. This thread is under review.

I'll reopen it now, as long as we can remain somewhat civil, it will remain open.
No personal attacks. :)
 
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Chevelle

Member
I have decided not to breed Chevelle....but that is mostly due to the respectful and kind points made to me in private email. I hope all will take this as a learning lesson....I totally get that you are protecting this breed, but what if I logged off after the 5th "are you kidding" and bred my dog....that would be the exact opposite of what I believe is in your hearts...to protect this breed. I urge you, people will come to this board seeking answers....I was serious, no matter how stupid you thought I was....if I want to waste time I'll play Candy Crush. At least make sure you are not driving people away to breed when they shouldn't because you think they are idiots. Yes, I'm not educated on this matter....but I've learned more in the last 1.5 hours that's for sure.
 
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Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
No one thinks you are an idiot. OP breeding is a huge responsibility. It's not just about putting two breeds together. It takes great understanding of the breed, pedigree, health, and temperament. There are some folks here who have dogs with seizures. Its tramatic for everyone involved and is not due to the dog. You say you rescued her that's great enjoy her! She's probably been through a rough life. Adding puppies puts unnecessary stress and strain on her. Do you have enough money for a emergency c section? What if you lose get and the pups? What other problems does she have they you may not know. No one thinks you are an idiot but but again using common sense you see why some people reacted the way they did. That's like asking if your breaks work should you drive your car??

In either case we do hope you stay and learn more. What breed of mastiff do you have? Pictures? There are some folks that will help you understand more.
 
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Chevelle

Member
998702_10201320582287383_1818757906_n.jpgThis is our Chevelle. She isn't actually a rescue. Her owner was deployed, left her with the boyfriend, he gave her away....we found her on facebook.
 
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Chevelle

Member
She's almost 6, the vet had told us if we bred her it would be our last chance.....I'm calling tomorrow to make the appt to spay when her heat is up :) I can't stress enough how much I did not like her before we got her. I'm totally OCD but she's worth all the hair and drool....she is just so special :)
 
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Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
6 years old??? Wow she looks VERY GOOD. She's wearing her age well..here's hoping she has a long life!

I don't have an EM but many people are head over heals about them, mastiffs are a wonder breed :grin: Ha, hair drool and all. I'm also OCD. Wiping, vaccuming, cleaning walls, its totally worth it for these guys.
 
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cinnamon roll

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
EM and OCD! LOL they are such a mess. My girl drives me crazy with the hair, the drool I can deal with. :)
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Should we breed with a friend's male English Mastiff that has been having a lot of seizures lately?
Gina

For future reference you'll get less of a "please tell me this is a troll" type of response if you actually give us the rest of the details. Like the fact that they think his siezures are the result of valley fever rather than genetics, and your bitch's background. Popping in out of nowhere with that sort of question, with no details or background is a VERY trollish sort of thing to do, and we have a couple of "regulars" who've been known to do just that.

To answer your question: no, I'd not breed a dog with known seizures. Even though they think its the result of a sickness rather than genetics its not worth the possible heartbreak if they're wrong. Unless you plan to be a BYB type of breeder (and I'm not saying you WERE, just trying to make an example) you should plan on not only possible huge medical costs for your bitch and the pups, but also be able to keep any pups you can't find homes for (and let me tell you, as a potential puppy buyer telling me that the sire has seizures is one of the biggest ways to send me far far away from you) AND be able to take back any pups who's homes don't work out. Plus there's a LIST of health tests that ANY of the mastiff breeds really need to have done before breeding (and they're not especially cheap to do).
 

Jadotha

Well-Known Member
Chevelle you have to understand from some of the posters positions. Some work at vet clinics or shelters. They have been in their particular breed for years. They have knowledge that honestly you shouldn't discount because your feeling got hurt. When I first joined this forum I wrote a post about my 4 month old puppy barking and lunging at strangers. Somebody actually said she was unstable. HAHAHA. As much as that pissed me off, I hung around and have come to really appreciate the info they give. The beautiful thing about knowledge is even though it may seem flawed, it's still important to soak up incase you have to tell an idiot what another
idiot said.

My observation is that Chevelle didn't even get an opportunity to discount anyone's knowledge, since -- for the first several posts --no one offered any,and made a number of comments I believe most people would construe as rude. I would hope we would give all new posters the benefit of the doubt until they are proven to be 'trolls'. Admittedly, we had some, but we have not been inundated by them.

Chevelle, here is my advice fwiw:

Re: Breeding your dog. I am sure you love her and sincerely want to share her with the world. The problem is that, as Rachie said, EMs are being threatened by BYB's who are breeding substandard dogs that fail to the meet the standard and/or have temperament issues, as well as a number of crosses -- some really scary. Not all BYB's are horrible people in it only for the money. Some want their children to 'witness the miracle of birth', others, like you, believe they have wonderful dogs and want to share them. Still others want a 'replacement' for their dog when he or she passes. The problem with this is that one puppy is kept, but what happens with the other 5 or 10?

Although BSL is generally on the wane, it is still a potential threat to all of our mastiff breeds. If a medium sized dog attacks or mauls someone, it is initially identified as a 'pit-bull type'; if it is big and powerful, it is a 'mastiff'. Hence, maintaining our breed's temperament, and placing all puppies in responsible homes is a vital priority. Rescues and shelters are stuffed with Mastiffs that owners couldn't cope with or sell on Craigslist so they were surrendered. At this point, really, the only legitimate and responsible reason for breeding is to improve the breed. Hence, the main answer is you shouldn't breed your dog unless and until:
> She is evaluated by a knowledge person (e.g. EM judge) or through showing, and found to be an excellent example of the breed.
> She is temperament tested
> She is fully health tested

Re: The friend's male: Seizures are a common long term sequelae of Valley Fever, and at this point in time, a genetic basis for idiopathic (of unknown origin)epilepsy has not been determined in EMs. However, it has been linked to genes in several other breeds. Now that the canine genome has been completed, many researchers have identified good 'candidates' for closer scrutiny.

Hence, my opinion is that your friend shouldn't be breeding her dog, and you shouldn't consider breeding unless the criteria I listed are met.
 

Kelly

Well-Known Member
Chevelle, that picture of your girl...awwww soooo sweet! Feel free to post more. so glad you decided not to breed her. And hope you stick around, tell us some stories, join in on other posts, and welcome.
 

Chevelle

Member
Thank you all. I am so at peace with not breeding her. I was on the fence anyway and when my friend told me hers had a seizure that day it was a big red flag. I regret I didn't start out my post with more info but I'm not a forum girl...I'm a Facebook girl :) I look forward to hear more of what you pros have to say...as I said, I never intended to own a dog....never mind a 130# one. She is quite special and I see why my hubby wanted one for so long.
 

Mooshi's Mummy

Well-Known Member
Hello and welcome. I am very glad to see you haven't left us and have understood our passion and sometimes knee jerk reactions. We really are a passionate lot here and very honest, which can be seen as uncaring and rude but really we are just honest and don't flower our love and devotion. Especially when you have seen what we have and the utter heartbreak brought on by thoughtless people who think it's ok to bring lives into this world with no good reason other than they love their pet. Not saying that's you but just trying to help you understand our passion. Clearly you're a person with the insight to listen and learn, you will make a great addition to our forum family. Sometimes we get raw and close to the bone but really that's what's great about being here. The fun, honesty and ability to learn every day. No one here thinks they know it all and we all learn from each other.