Breeder vs Puppy Mill what's different ??

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by Countrygirl, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Member

    Hi,
    I had a question, the breeder I got my cane Corso
    From has been accused of being a puppy mill!!
    What's the difference in the two ?
     
  2. BIgdog

    BIgdog Well-Known Member

    Puppy Mill-A puppy mill is a facility were people take pure bred dogs or mutts and breed them at a large scale . Normally dogs that are kept at puppy mills are in poor conditions and are only breed for profit . These dogs are usually sold at small pet stores and PET LAND . Back Yard Breeder -If the are breeding on a small scale for profit and not to better the breed than they are known as a Back Yard breeder. Breeder- some who breeds selected specimens with the intent to maintain or produce specific qualities and characteristics.Also to better the breed.
     
  3. Geisthexe

    Geisthexe Banned

    Breeder? They are all breeders bc they have puppies......

    You have
    - ETHICAL BREEDERS
    .. Health Test
    .. Prove by Titles (Conformation / Sports / Working)
    .. Litters (1or 2 a year)
    .. Offer Guarantee

    - HOBBY BREEDERS
    . Health Test
    .. Prove by Titles (Conformation / Sports / Working)
    .. Litters (1or 2 a year)
    .. Offer Guarantee

    - BACK YARD BREEDERS
    .. No Health Testing
    .. No Titles
    .. Litters (1 to 4 a year)
    .. No Guarantee
    .. Cost (very low so they can sell)

    - PUPPY MILL BREEDERS
    .. Have multi breeds of dogs
    .. Breeding (do not care how many times they inbred or line breed)
    .. Litters (All Breeds they own, or just one breed, will have multiple litters a year, what they do not sell goes into the breeding program)
    .. No Guarantee
    .. Cost (very low)
    .. Lie about parents (many if them will have oop litters with with two breeds or wrong parents and lie about it)

    Hope that gave you your answer!
     
    Kay Shaw likes this.
  4. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Member

    Ok, thank you for that info. I got Ry when he was 7 months old from what I believe to be a rep breeder but I got to thinking after I found a legal lawsuit article online about them, he was eat up in several types of intest. Worms/parasites and scared of everything and it took me over a month to get his shot records from them for my vet I had to go on the fb page and make an embarrassing statement for all their friends to see before they would call me back!!! They are well known in my area so I would not have a lot of choice but to go several states away should I choose to get another Corso... :mad:
     
  5. LauraR

    LauraR Well-Known Member

    I've always been curious, what's the difference between an ethical breeder and a hobby breeder? When I think of the two, I tend to see the ethical breeder as the type who have an established kennel, proven dogs and breed to high standards throughout many generations. When I think of a hobby breeder, I imagine someone who has the same standards as the ethical breeder but may only breed once or twice for a specific purpose. Am I at least in the ball park with this one?
     
  6. JacksTheDog

    JacksTheDog Well-Known Member

    why is it that to be a reputable breeder at all you must show your dogs? I am curious could you not be in love with a breed do everything else test guarantee proper breeding with proper stud etc.. but not have an interest in showing? Oh and why does cost have anything to do with a good breeder my breeder charged me $1400 for Jacks and I know she loves her dogs and cares about the breed?

    I'm just asking not arguing don't take theses questions as an argument.
     
    Francesca and Annette Coleman like this.
  7. Geisthexe

    Geisthexe Banned

    I agree didn't think about the word purpose .. It's 5:30am here and I'm getting ready for work .. Ugh I want my night schedule back ;)
     
  8. Geisthexe

    Geisthexe Banned

    How are you proving your dogs lines are good?
    Why should you run off of someone else's hard work of proving there dogs?

    You don't prove your a back yard breeder

    The only Ethical Breeders who have been around while have proven dogs but might have a health issue they would prevent working .. That's a different issue

    Also forgot to mention many BYBs will purchase Champion dogs and run off that to sell pups

    Give great example:
    My male Conan (most on here know) he is a Presa Canario, and is one of the most titled Presas also owns first ever titles for the breed
    One of the owners of his siblings (a sister to Conan) decided to use photos of Conan working and his titles to sell his dogs .. THAT UNETHICAL that's plain WRONG.. He lived in Brazil :(
     
  9. JacksTheDog

    JacksTheDog Well-Known Member

    ok I see where you are comming from. Is there anyway of having proven dogs without titles what if you go to the shows and just constantly get your but kicked beacuse someone else happens to have a better dog a goes to all the same shows? This happens to me at motorcycle shows I will always place second if so and so shows up as he has placed above me before. You see what i'm saying, I hope. :)
     
  10. Geisthexe

    Geisthexe Banned

    Well you are asking to compare Apples to Oranges .. No compare bc only thing in common is both fruit
    On what your asking compare is owner takes care.
    Remember you can only work on a dog to make better. You can CHANGE parts on a bike to make it better from engine stronger, faster, better. Parts on the outside and be switched, painted and molded. Haha I use to be an office manager of a Motorcycle shop when I took a break from Vet Teching lol

    If your dog NEVER wins in the ring maybe there is something wrong with the dog and that's not a good proven dog for breeding. Most folks who are working in proving there dogs will ask the judge what did they like in that dog over there own. If this is consistent with all the judges well that confirmed

    You in reality don't have to proven your dog in the ring bc you can A do sports with the dog or B actually do true work with the dog to prove it.

    Personally myself as a breeder I do all

    Past / Present real work dogs
    Therapy, trained in Service dog, did Urban Search n Rescue, Coon Hunted

    Past / Present sporting dogs
    Protection, agility, obedience, rally, weight pull

    Past / Present showing
    UKC, FCI, Mollossar Olympics, and Presa Specialities

    Just to give an example to what a person who wants to breed can do
     
  11. Duetsche_Doggen

    Duetsche_Doggen Well-Known Member

    Honestly I've wondered that too, my breed community is REALLY passionate on this. They have a list of what I call the "ten commandments" of breeders and their number one rule is one MUST show. My guess is that they believe showing proves the dog conforms to standard, which yes you want a breed to look like it suppose too. However like Cody mentioned its a tool that should be used to evaluate the quality of the dog. A piece of a puzzle. Temperament, Health, and Intelligence should also be used to complete the picture.

    But each breeder regardless of what breed has their own goals in mind as to what they want for their program. I learned just to find a breeder who shares the same mindset as myself. It takes some work but the rewards are worth it.

    This is why puppy buyers should read, research, and come to their own conclusions.
     
  12. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    But.... I thought there was some consensus that the show judges were pushing the breeds into crazy places - i.e. noses to short, too tall, too short, overbuilt, too skinny, un-athletic, un-healthy, etc, etc.

    I would think a breeder of working dogs who actually works his dogs and has, say, herding titles, would be someone looking to better the breed more so than someone who just goes to a beauty contest.
     
    Francesca likes this.
  13. Geisthexe

    Geisthexe Banned

    Dennes you are right working titles do have more credentials then showing by far. But not all breeds get worked anymore. Example: (not attacking the breed) EMs they rarely get worked in things, very few if a owner, breeder etc want too, most are just shown now. But there are many many breeds like this.

    Judges well what you stated is only being judged off the standard that was produced by the parenting club minus a few who stand behind an original standard. So like AKC / UKC / FCI for Presa (ill slam my own breed) there are three standards
    UKC kept with the original minus changing a few things like weight (grr not happy about)
    AKC decided to write there own standard and add blue as a breed color for Presa (NOT A COLOR COAT FOR THE BREED)
    FCI who is the original registry wrote the standard, changed the standard when they changed the name in there registry they have rewritten it 4 times. Changed size, height and took out the black coat
    (Grr just stupid all the way around on there behalf IMO)

    UKC likes to see better fit dogs in the ring
    AKC is known for heavy dogs
    FCI also known for heavy dogs

    In Germany on the GSD they require the breed to be shown and worked (which I completely love) hence why I do as much as I can in working but yet I love knowing my dogs meet standards in UKC and even though mine are thinner they also have met standards of FCI and been deemed Excellent.

    I hope that helped ya with some understanding
     
  14. Cody

    Cody Well-Known Member

    Any dog can finish if it is entered in enough shows. Some dogs are campaigned for years (literally) before they can receive their CH, where some dogs finish in a few shows... Personally for me, if it takes me a year or 2 to finish a dog, and that is on a professional handler going almost every weekend, then chances are that dog does not conform to the standard. I do not believe that showing is the be all end all, but as said is a tool. However if a breeder is claiming that they work and show their dogs then that SHOULD be backed up. BYB's make many claims, some have nice websites BUT if a breeder is not participating in ANY working/testing/conformation events then I personally would stay away from them. I also prefer to see breeders who have dogs competing in multiple venues, not just one. I think that conformation is one of them but would like to see dogs they have produced in various sports, working venues and temperament testing.
     
  15. Geisthexe

    Geisthexe Banned

    Well said Ms Cody :D
     
  16. tb44

    tb44 Well-Known Member

    Okay I have a question, my next em I have a breeder in mind that doesn't do health testing. Her dogs are amazing and are her life , she does offer a guarantee. She has dogs that she has imported from all over the country. What do you think of her?
     
  17. tb44

    tb44 Well-Known Member

  18. Tiger12490

    Tiger12490 Well-Known Member

    I dont think you have to health test to be an ethical breeder.....

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
     
  19. tb44

    tb44 Well-Known Member

    That's my feeling too tiger!
     
  20. Cody

    Cody Well-Known Member

    Why wouldn't you health test? I mean really, why not? If it is money then that there shows me that the breeder is not what I would want to work with. Again health testing is a tool. All it is is knowing what you have to work with. Why would a breeder not want to know that? I would not dismiss a dog based on health tests alone, but the knowledge of what it's hip scores (for example) are would definitely be plus in deciding a pairing. All of these tests we are given should be nothing more then tools to use, if applied properly great things can be accomplished.
     

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