By:
Filters
What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Breeder Question: Oak View Boerboels

O

odgreen

New Member
Good norming. I'm new here and have really appreciated all the info. We're looking for a Boerboel for our family. I've found a breeder in Missouri called Oak View Boerboels, run by Eric and Gina Gramlich. Here's a link to their web site and Facebook page.I had a phone call and came away impressed. However, I can't find any discussion of them online, which seems odd since they've apparently been breeding Boerboels for 15 years. Anybody know about them and could offer any advice? I'm trying hard to find a breeder who really cares about upholding the standards (especially temperament) of this excellent breed. Thanks again for all the great info you all have already provided!
 
Oscar'sMom

Oscar'sMom

Well-Known Member
R

ryanpaul

Member
Oscar'sMom said:
No. Just no. all mastiff crossed - Mastiff Forum sorry OP for derailing....there have been a bunch of threads on this Olympic dogs guy...he's crossing all of these dogs as designer dogs...it's ridiculous and sad for the breeds. there are plenty of people that may be able to help you with your search! Good luck :)
Click to expand...
You may not agree with crossing dog (even through many mastiffs are mixed) but you can not deny Andrew has some of the best Boerboel blood on his yard. I believe from time to time he has a litter of "pure" Boerboels, Dogo etc. I have seen "respected" kennels in South Africa where people get treasured foundation dogs that are a complete mess. I am talking about dogs with multiple fly bites on the ears, stuck in runs pacing in their own waste all day. Oscar's Mom have you ever visited Andrews kennel or sat to a cup of coffee with him? I know breeders from Europe who think ALL American dogs are junk and nothing but show pieces devoid of any real working background and full of health grenades. Why do you think our police and military buy their dogs from overseas? Have you seen some of these overseas breeders yards and training methods , I think it would shock you a lot more than Andrews kennel.
 
O

odgreen

New Member
Thanks for the info, but I'm really looking for someone who knows this kennel (Oak View), or at least could recommend another in the midwest. Olympic is not in my consideration set.
 
TWW

TWW

Well-Known Member
SRe: Breeder Question: Oak View Boerboels

ryanpaul said:
You may not agree with crossing dog (even through many mastiffs are mixed) but you can not deny Andrew has some of the best Boerboel blood on his yard. I believe from time to time he has a litter of "pure" Boerboels, Dogo etc. I have seen "respected" kennels in South Africa where people get treasured foundation dogs that are a complete mess. I am talking about dogs with multiple fly bites on the ears, stuck in runs pacing in their own waste all day. Oscar's Mom have you ever visited Andrews kennel or sat to a cup of coffee with him? I know breeders from Europe who think ALL American dogs are junk and nothing but show pieces devoid of any real working background and full of health grenades. Why do you think our police and military buy their dogs from overseas? Have you seen some of these overseas breeders yards and training methods , I think it would shock you a lot more than Andrews kennel.
Click to expand...
I'll skip being rude, but your talking about no health testing first and 2nd Boerboels are judge by the ability to be a working dog, with Dogo's there are show and working lines. If you want some of the heaviest EM's you find them where? Answer is the U.K. a lot of the crazy standards you find are from Europe.

If you want a detailed why you should not buy the mixes at Olympic dogs, it will have to wait till after work.
Sorry to say it is a shear lack of knowledge that would lead someone to do a Boerboel x Kangal mix, no health testing and the parents act like this, is a horrible combo.
 
R

ryanpaul

Member
Re: SRe: Breeder Question: Oak View Boerboels

TWW said:
I'll skip being rude, but your talking about no health testing first and 2nd Boerboels are judge by the ability to be a working dog, with Dogo's there are show and working lines. If you want some of the heaviest EM's you find them where? Answer is the U.K. a lot of the crazy standards you find are from Europe. If you want a detailed why you should not buy the mixes at Olympic dogs, it will have to wait till after work. Sorry to say it is a shear lack of knowledge that would lead someone to do a Boerboel x Kangal mix, no health testing and the parents act like this, is a horrible combo.
Click to expand...
Is this not a free country? Are people not entitled to their opinions? I simply stated Olympic has amazing Boerboel bloodlines. As far as crossing breeds, well it has been done for centuries. In fact that is why there is a ban of the black boerboel now. Some will say abpts and the dogo bordeaux were not to long ago infused into the Tosa bloodlines. Oh and lets not start with breeds like the Presa that can range from 60 pounds to 160 pounds. I have spoken ad nausem with breeders of many mastiffs that can't tell a Cane Corso, from a Presa from a Boerboel(if you leave their tails and ears natural). Do you think these dogs have such range in genotype because of tight line breeding? When I speak of euro lines I am referring to working dogs. Dogs like the English Bulldog or English Mastiff I would consider more companion dogs. Generally if you want to find the freshest water you go to the source, and that is not America for most breeds. Is that taking a shot at American breeders of course not. Many Americans breed fine dogs that fit in perfectly to the complex social environment that most will be placed in. The majority of k9 homes don't need or want a dog that actually performs its original purpose any how. Well that is unless you like spending time in a court room. In short, I just try not to judge something unless I have personally experienced it. I think many people are upset with Andrew because they bit off more dog than they could handle. Do you think Cesar Milan or a top level K9 officer would have trouble owning an Olympic dog? Maybe Andrew needs one of those caution labels like you see on coffee cups "please handle with care". As far has health issues this is what his website states"Yes, on the crosses I generally offer a five year replacement guarantee for ANY GENETIC ISSUE what so ever, which is a broader then any you’re likely to find on a purebred dog….. which speaks volumes."I don't want to argue, because you are entitled to you own opinion. I just made a suggestion to the OP on where to find good "working" Boerboel bloodlines. I think OP is intelligent enough to do his research from there and see if a breeder meets his "personal" standards. What quantitative negative facts could you share with the OP about Olympics pure breed Boerboels? Other than those facts if any, everything else would be opinion. PETA has an opinion that there should be NO breeders, well at least until all pound dogs are rescued. Do I agree with that, of course not, but hey its a free country.
 
R

ryanpaul

Member
I also apologize to the OP for the thread going in this direction. Another good place to look for a working Boerboel (in the mid-west) would be Proffer's Kennel: link below:http://www.profferskennel.comThe Mizpah bloodline is traced back to one of the founding fathers of the Boerboel Lukas van der Mere.The owner of that bloodline can be found below: You can PM him on Facebook about his spring litter.https://www.facebook.com/preservingmizpah/https://www.facebook.com/Mizpah-Boerboele-295917243880477/** Also if you did not already know, the black boerboel has been removed by the south african registry there are several threads on this site about that.
 
Hiraeth

Hiraeth

Well-Known Member
It is a free country. You are entitled to your opinion. Even if it's wrong. Anyone who specializes in multiple breeds, doesn't title their dogs (conformation or working) and claims that they're breeding working lines is an irreputable backyard breeder.

And I think CM would have trouble owning any dog. His aversive and dominance-based techniques have gotten him more bites than can be counted, and he has been involved in multiple lawsuits due to the failings of his training methods.

Back to OP's original question:

I do not pretend to know much of anything about Boerboels, however I did look at the breeder's website, and as far as I can tell, everything checks out. I'd prefer to see them doing something with their dogs (showing in conformation, working titles, CGCs, something along those lines), but other than that, I appreciate their spay/neuter contract and I thought their information section was very thorough.

The one question I'd have is what kind of 'vetting' of their perspective clients do they do? I don't see a survey or questionnaire to fill out, as is common on top notch Great Dane breeder websites. Breeders should be just as selective about who they sell to as buyers are about who they buy from. I hope they have an extensive interview process before taking a deposit and selling someone a puppy.
 
Oscar'sMom

Oscar'sMom

Well-Known Member
ryanpaul said:
You may not agree with crossing dog (even through many mastiffs are mixed) but you can not deny Andrew has some of the best Boerboel blood on his yard. I believe from time to time he has a litter of "pure" Boerboels, Dogo etc. I have seen "respected" kennels in South Africa where people get treasured foundation dogs that are a complete mess. I am talking about dogs with multiple fly bites on the ears, stuck in runs pacing in their own waste all day. Oscar's Mom have you ever visited Andrews kennel or sat to a cup of coffee with him? I know breeders from Europe who think ALL American dogs are junk and nothing but show pieces devoid of any real working background and full of health grenades. Why do you think our police and military buy their dogs from overseas? Have you seen some of these overseas breeders yards and training methods , I think it would shock you a lot more than Andrews kennel.
Click to expand...
I'll make sure to set up a coffee date next week. Maybe then I'll understand how ridiculous it all is in person.
 
R

ryanpaul

Member
I will leave mixing breeds at this:Olympic Dogs : olympicdogs.net, Defending the Cross we should all return to trying to help OP find his forever friend a new SAB! I would reach out to this family in South Africa. They have amazing Boerboels (oak view may have visited their kennel) and they might be the best source for pointing you in the best direction in the mid-west. Again I have heard a lot of good things about Proffer's Boerboels and he seems like an honest gentleman too..
 
R

ryanpaul

Member
ryanpaul said:
I will leave mixing breeds at this:Olympic Dogs : olympicdogs.net, Defending the Cross we should all return to trying to help OP find his forever friend a new SAB! I would reach out to this family in South Africa. They have amazing Boerboels (oak view may have visited their kennel) and they might be the best source for pointing you in the best direction in the mid-west. Again I have heard a lot of good things about Proffer's Boerboels and he seems like an honest gentleman too..
Click to expand...
sorry I forgot the link to the family in South Africa Gretchen Boerboels
 
O

odgreen

New Member
Hiraeth said:
The one question I'd have is what kind of 'vetting' of their perspective clients do they do? I don't see a survey or questionnaire to fill out, as is common on top notch Great Dane breeder websites. Breeders should be just as selective about who they sell to as buyers are about who they buy from. I hope they have an extensive interview process before taking a deposit and selling someone a puppy.
Click to expand...
I talked to him on the phone, and he seemed very concerned about vetting me as a potential owner. He didn't give me a questionnaire, but he did encourage a visit as a next step. I wouldn't say he was "wary," exactly, but certainly cautious.And I've also spoken with Mr. Proffer. I would love to get one of his dogs. It sounds like it make take a long time, but I'm leaning that direction.
 
J

Joao M

Well-Known Member
I am not in the USA and will not discuss USA breeders, of course.
Having said that, out of dog keeper/professional curiosity I looked at the spay/neuter contractual obligations because we do not have that in most European countries (certainly not in mine with the obvious exception of adopted shelter dogs), and noticed that Proffer´s "Pet quality spay/neuter contract" states that the pup must be neutered/spayed by the age of six months. That would be a no to me for medical reasons.
 
Hiraeth

Hiraeth

Well-Known Member
Now reply with quote isn't working? *sigh*

Joao M, yes, any breeder who requires spay/neuter BEFORE 6 months is a breeder I would be absolutely unwilling to support. If they require that, they're clearly not up to date on current research when it comes to altering giant breed puppies, and I would be uncomfortable supporting their breeding program as a result.

The only s/n contract I'd be willing to buy into is "you cannot spay the dog before a certain age".
 
R

ryanpaul

Member
The spay/neuter before a certain age is not something I am well read on. Could a poster go into a more detailed explanation on why this is not a good idea. I have heard theories, but I would certainly love to learn more. I plan on getting my male puppy neutered (as I have ZERO) plans to stud/breed etc.
 
Hiraeth

Hiraeth

Well-Known Member
Oh, I lied, the surveys are linked two posts below the post I linked to you in my previous response. Yay! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.