Best Working Mastiff Breeders?

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by LM2014, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. LM2014

    LM2014 New Member

    Hi,

    I would like to know which are the best working Mastiff breeders, no matter where in the world they are located, who breed stable tempered and healthy working dogs with rock solid nerves. I'm especially interested in Corsi, Neos, and Bandogs.

    Thank you in advance for your suggestions!

    Kirby
     
  2. tynman

    tynman Active Member

    Check out the south african boerboel.
     
  3. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    Depends on what you qualify as work. For some it is protection sports, for others herding and for others things like hunting.
     
  4. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    I'm associated with a small club which produces hard working presas. I've started a heavy neo based bandog program. Pm me for details.


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  5. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    I will have to warn you. These dogs ARE NOT for beginners, or hobbyists. Selection is strict and we do offer lifetime support. But you must be brutally honest with yourself and your capabilities. These dogs are no joke. And you need spare time to raise them appropriately. They are extremely driven. They must be addressed and monitored accordingly.


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  6. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    I'd go with the one that was bred from working lines, who's parents were working dogs, and are doing the kind of work you want yours doing.
    I'd consider how they were bred over which breed, specifically.
     
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  7. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    Lindsay Tornanabe produces old school working type neapolitans and bandogs. She has some shutzhund titles under her belt.

    Lee Robinson of Chimera Kennels produces some strong nerved and drivey bandogs produced for catchwork and personal protection. Currently Heavy game pit influence

    David Ishee of midguard mastiffs creates working mastiffs with a little bulldog blood. Deep generation mastiff/Dane crosses. For catch work and Personal protection.


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  8. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    "working" dogs on the internet is one of the biggest marketing scams i've seen ....... i'd buy a bold , mouthy pup off bold parents raised by someone who knew how to raise pups from day 1 , and then raise and train it properly ...... american bulldogs and dogo are the only two i personally know are proven to any extent as working breeds ......... maybe fila are , i just never seen many if they are ......... i've seen a cao that was as naturally dangerous as any dog i've ever known , i honestly think given the opportunity he'd kill a man without a problem .........
     
  9. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    Regardless of where the dog is from, be sure the parents exhibit the desired traits you want, these are the greatest indication of the offsprings ability to do a "job"

    Find a breeder who emphasizes a dogs function, who produces just what Marke said, confident bold drivey mouthy pups. These are typically pups who may have the foundation to do what many call "work"

    One could argue that many people breed mastiffs as family dogs, with softer temperaments who are still very capable of being a deterrent.

    A working dog is only as good as their ability to do a job. Regardless of their perspective breeds. Do your research. Communicate with potential breeders. Evaluate their stock, and even gather outside professional or experienced opinions.

    But typically the following reigns true. When selecting a working class prospect.

    High prey drive and ability to recover from stress are extremely important and are easily discoverable in a group of puppies.

    Utilize a few different tests, see who engages rigorously in a game of tug. Throw a can of rocks into the pile of puppies. Who runs away. Who runs away and comes back to investigate. Who barks?

    Do the same with an umbrella popping it open rapidly and leaving it on the floor.

    Strong nerves. Confidence. Prey drive. And the ability to recover from stress.

    But just remember. There's also a nurture component as well.

    Happy Selecting and good luck.


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  10. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    when it comes to dogs that are not as deeply genetically predisposed to the behaviors favorable to a kind of work , nurture becomes an even larger part of the equation ....... your list of test i think is excellent , it's all seeable , but it may not always turn out to be what you thought you seen ..... my pups are handled a lot from day one , they are exposed to loud sudden noises , rocks in a bottle , dropped pans , lawn mowers , 24/7 radio , unknown scarey objects popping up just standing in their kennels , regularly separated from their littermates , way before anyone would have the chance to test them , everyone of them will test better than most average litters you'll run across ...... i don't encourage mouthy pups , so they'll test worse than someones who does ......... which would be why if you want to hunt with your dog , get it from someone who hunts their dogs , not someone who has dogs and been on a hunt before ........ as far as protection dogs and mastiffs , you'll have trouble finding someone that actually uses working protection dogs who breeds temperamentally sound protection dogs that are safe to own ....
     
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  11. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    I do believe in your comment regarding genetic predisposition and the importance of nurturing, and appreciate your foresight in terms of separating pups from the litter for evaluation. Something many people overlook.

    Ultimately, the beauty of multiple breeders is that they can breed, select and encourage certain traits all of which are tailored and dependent on the work they're dogs are intended to perform.

    The selection of the individual, and a thorough understanding of the drives necessary for that dog (as well as the appropriate methods of nurturing) to perform a job is what makes a good working prospect.

    As far as personal protection mastiffs - real ones arnt heavily advertised. A civil driven mastiff does not need to be in the hands of the general public.


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  12. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    What we typically see are mastiffs capable of performing "sport". Be it protection routines or hunting activities.

    "Man stoppers" are not generally advertised to the public.


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  13. TWW

    TWW Well-Known Member

    Sorry but half the bandogges out there are for profit, and would go with a solid Boerboel over them in all around working dog.

    If your looking PP work then Working Neo, CC, working BBD, or Boerboel.

    Man stopper Fila, CAO, and Kangal. Though any mastiff breed from the right lines can stop a person.

    Sporting CC, Presa, and Dogo.

    Herding Boerboel, Fila

    General house guard with the family BM or a EM.

    No real need for all the mixes there hundreds or years behind the working lines of the above listed breeds.
    People get to used to looking at some of the sloppy versions of some of the breeds that are sold for size and forget something a gentle as a EM from lines breed for fitness and true temper are a force that only the fool hardy what to face.
     
  14. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    i believe the bandog is an attempt to get the tenacity of an apbt in a mastiff body , with the mastiffs defensiveness , not that some apbt are not as defensive in nature as the mastiff , but there are no mastiffs with the tenacity of a good apbt ...... there have been some very good dogmen , trainers and decoys who have produced , raised some pretty impressive american bandog mastiffs ........ but you are correct there are a ton of folks who will drop all kinds of names in order to put themselves in the class of a lucero in an attempt to sell dogs ..... those guys bred temperaments like a show guy breeds conformation and type ....... they knew how to evaluate and raise dogs and pups .... i've seen way more fakes , than i've seen the real deals ......... i assume
     
  15. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    i assume they are as full of crap today as they were 20yrs ago .............
     
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  16. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    As Marke said. There are no mastiffs with the tenacity of a good apbt.

    True bandogs with this trait can make suitable sporting and potentially protection dogs.

    The public has gotten used to breeders focusing more so on size then traditional temperament. Which may have been recognized by the OP who posted the original question.

    Most of the breeds today - boerboels, cane corsos, dogos, and presas could arguably considered of bandog type who have become bonafide breeds.

    The cane corso and presa especially are really modern (bandog) recreations.

    The whole idea of a working dog is to get a specimen who hasn't been selectively bred for the show or public circles. Unfortunately the more popular the breed the more likely the original temperament has been watered down.

    And with the boerboel quickly becoming popular. With sky high weights and size being emphasized as well as stable temperaments-this could very well be another breed where working class individuals are hard to secure.

    I think one thing is for certain.
    Any breed can have traditional working temperaments. What it requires is solid research. Honest breeders. And a capable handler.

    All breeds have essentially been watered down. As popularity increases. Traditional use and functionality suffers.


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  17. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    the best working bandog breed , they're called standard american bulldogs , you will find no other bandog to be even a close 2nd .... protection work , hunting , and weightpull , there are AB's that have reached the highest level and excelled at everyone of those occupations ........ i would add , the breed is the definition of a bandog , a combination of mastiff , pit , and bulldog

    http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1697626-metcalfs-gubby-de-mar
     
  18. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    Yup. I can see that. Standard ABs have been a "perfected" bandog.

    Athleticism. Drive. Defensiveness. Have seen a couple at my club that really bring it and are solid all rounders.


    You'll prob have an easier time finding a performance oriented AB then a good cross bred bandog.


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  19. fixitlouie

    fixitlouie Well-Known Member

    The Dogo is the only breed I know of that must preform hunting as well as show confirmation in order to be champion title

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  20. I3rendanG

    I3rendanG Well-Known Member

    I'd argue the Show confirmation and increase in popularity ruins working dogs.

    If this is true it's only a matter of time before breeders focus more so on a docile watered down temperament and structural soundness as opposed to working ability and tenacity

    If the Dogo is no longer on the AKCs Foundation Stock list and is inducted into the working dog classification it's prob Game over.

    Many people don't have any business owning a traditional temperament mastiff type dog. So in many ways show lines and popularity are both a gift and a curse.

    Americans tend to focus on breeding for one or the other. Form or function. A breeder who breeds for both is hard to find. A dog with working titles and conformation championships is one to be cherished.
    If you know of such stock do share. I'm sure the individuals in the thread would appreciate it!


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