American Mastiff x shar pei

[srmorris87]

My little girl is an American mastiff x shar pei. I have looked everywhere and can't find anything about how either breed acts as a puppy! it's driving me nuts! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[dogman#1]

what the hell is an American mastiff? If it is that wannabe English mastiff mutt thing then you will have no idea as it isnt even a breed, just a combination of them.

 

[coreyc]

I'm not sure she does not look like a shar pei or a mastiff to me

 

[srmorris87]

http://m.dogbreedinfo.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dogbreedinfo.com%2Famericanmastiff.htm

 

[Smart_Family]

I believe there's an American mastiff forum that might be able to help. You should also know it's not considered by many to be an actual breed but a mix.

 

[Hector]

Could it be another name for english mastiff?

 

[Smart_Family]

Could it be another name for english mastiff?

Nope it's considered a breed by some people. Not akc recognized though. It's a mastiff x Anatolian shepherd.

 

[Hector]

Nope it's considered a breed by some people. Not akc recognized though. It's a mastiff x Anatolian shepherd.

Interesting...all those photos from the link looks like em

 

[Smart_Family]

It's supposed to be a better version of the English mastiffs because they are supposedly less drooly. There's been a couple epic "discussions" about the breed from time to time.

 

[Jadotha]

Being a member of that forum, I think I can contribute some helpful information.
First, ALL breeds were originally crosses at some point in time -- it depends where in the time continuum you pound in the marker -- does 200 years since the crosses were used define a 'pure bred'?100 years? 50 years? Less?The American Mastiff has now been around for closing in on 40 years. In 2002 it was recognised as a breed by the CKC. More recently, when it was able to fulfill the requirements of the AKC for beginning the process for breed recognition, the membership voted against pursuing this, as they believe the AKC has done irreparable damage to its recognised breeds as showing took precedence over function, health and temperament.Additionally, the mission of the American Mastiff Breeders Council is to produce family pets, not show or working dogs. I realise the CKC is not considered a 'legitimate' registry by many, however it has come a long way in recent years, and is the haven for several proper working breeds who feared the same thing about the AKC.

I would say, however, that IF the OP indeed has an offspring of an AM, People on that forum will be deeply upset, and she may not get the warmest reception. There are only 8 approved breeders in this country, and they all ONLY sell their puppies with spay/neuter contracts prohibiting breeding. This is specifically to prevent AM's from falling into the hands of BYB's.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yah, the American is an EM Anatolian mix. Adding in Sharpei does NOT sound like a good thing IMO. The addition of Anatolian already has the potential to result in a very different temperment than the EM, and the Sharpei has the potential to "enhance" that, and not nessecarly in a good way.

Anatolians are an LGD, though not nessecarly one of the extreme ones. They are more aloof, and more guardy, and less likely to "take orders". Sharpei, though not technically an LGD, have some signifigant guardian tendancies, and not always in a stable way.

A pup thats a mix of American and Sharpei needs to be socialized to the max. When you think you're done socializing you need to turn around and double it. And basically never stop socializing for the life of the dog. Also be prepared for a dog who's not only aloof from strangers, but also potentially unfriendly towards them.

 

[Jadotha]

It's supposed to be a better version of the English mastiffs because they are supposedly less drooly. There's been a couple epic "discussions" about the breed from time to time

.

That was certainly the founder's objective, and unfortunately her site still states that. Like all more recent breeds, the AM is a work in progress. Thus far, results show that they may tend to have drier mouths, but there is great deal of individual variation. Health claims are still unsubstantiated. There is evidence that they tend to live longer than EMs -- avg life span appears to be 12 - 14 years, and there are a number of individuals who have lived to 16.

Most forum member-owners agree that the AM does NOT look like the EM and standards on dog information sites, the American Mastiff Family Forum, and breeders' individual sites reflect these differences -- (i.e., rectangular (versus square) head, almond eyes, and lighter/leaner builds than EMs). I recently posted a poll on the forum as to what people loved about their AMs, how many they had, and what influenced subsequent purchase decisions after the first. Most people who responded had 2 - 3, as well as EMs. They described their AMs as 'potato chip' dogs -- you couldn't just have one. They liked the 'lighter/leaner' look and longer muzzle of their AMs and described their personality as loving but funny and 'goofy'.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Being a member of that forum, I think I can contribute some helpful information.
First, ALL breeds were originally crosses at some point in time -- it depends where in the time continuum you pound in the marker -- does 200 years since the crosses were used define a 'pure bred'?100 years? 50 years? Less?The American Mastiff has now been around for closing in on 40 years. In 2002 it was recognised as a breed by the CKC. More recently, when it was able to fulfill the requirements of the AKC for beginning the process for breed recognition, the membership voted against pursuing this, as they believe the AKC has done irreparable damage to its recognised breeds as showing took precedence over function, health and temperament.Additionally, the mission of the American Mastiff Breeders Council is to produce family pets, not show or working dogs. I realise the CKC is not considered a 'legitimate' registry by many, however it has come a long way in recent years, and is the haven for several proper working breeds who feared the same thing about the AKC.

I would say, however, that IF the OP indeed has an offspring of an AM, People on that forum will be deeply upset, and she may not get the warmest reception. There are only 8 approved breeders in this country, and they all ONLY sell their puppies with spay/neuter contracts prohibiting breeding. This is specifically to prevent AM's from falling into the hands of BYB's.

I don't actually have the hugest problem with the AM as such. The large majority of the folks involved with the breed seem to be going about it inteligently. I'm not overly bothered by the lack of AKC registration either, though I kinda wish they'd gone with UKC over CKC, or even just built their own single breed registry instead. The EM Anatolian cross in general bothers me a bit, I know enough about LGDs to be wary of crossing them out and expecting to get a different temperment....

 

[srmorris87]

From what the lady I bought Shelly from has told me, her dog (Shelly's mama) was never socialized. But she was the biggest teddy bear when I met her. The father was the same way.

 

[ruthcatrin]

oh god, so not only do we have a BYB crossing AMs with Sharpei, but now they're telling folks that socialization isn't needed??

 

[srmorris87]

She didn't say not to socialize her, she just said she didn't with her female. The male was socialized like crazy, he was just a big sweet heart.

And just b/c my dog isn't AKC recognized, or comes from a reputable breeder (she didn't mean for her dog to get pregnant... It was her first heat), doesn't mean she is not a real mastiff. It's rude to say she's not. And if that's how people are on this forum I don't think this is the right place for me.

 

[Jadotha]

....though I kinda wish they'd gone with UKC over CKC, or even just built their own single breed registry instead.

I agree -- if they were not going to pursue AKC recognition, I think the best option may have been their own registry. OTOH, I was surprised to learn (as I said) that a number of working breeds -- Border Collies, several of the 'gun dogs', and so on opted for the CKC. I would point out that many of our mastiff breeds have only recently been AKC recognised; for example, the Cane Corso was just recognised in 2010. The AM was eligible and met the criteria for beginning the journey a couple of years ago, but elected not to -- for reasons stated. So it wasn't as if they were refused.

The EM Anatolian cross in general bothers me a bit

First of all, we are not talking about a 50 -50 proposition. The founder says 1/8 Anatolian. Whilst I have a bit of an issue about how she arrived at that estimation -- as I don't believe she is a geneticist -- it means fairly small infusion of Anatolian genes. Also, I know what the breed descriptors say, but I have searched for owners of Kangals -- which appears to be the original Anatolian contributor -- to 'interview'. Their comments depict an intelligent dog who is very loving and protective of their family and 'dependents' -- be they sheep, goats, children or neighbors. Additionally, if anyone watched the documentary on preserving cheetas through introducing Kangal to protect flocks in Namibia, they will do the minimum necessary to drive away the threat.

 

[Jadotha]

oh god, so not only do we have a BYB crossing AMs with Sharpei, but now they're telling folks that socialization isn't needed??

Who do you mean by 'they'?

 

[dogman#1]

srmorris, you are taking this the wrong way. You are being protective over a dog you obviously love and in turn dismissing the imformation that is being provided. Is your dog a mastiff? no. It is part mastiff... 1/4 EM, 1/4 Anatolian, 1/2 Sharpei (give or take depending the exact percentages of ea. breed that went into creating that American mastiff). If you knew more about the Anatolian Shepherd and the Sharpei you would understand why some are warning you about this particular mixed bred dog you got. You must remember that since this dog is mixed bred you may get a combination of the breeds put into it as far as temperament, size, characteristics, etc. An English mastiff is just ONE of the possible temperament outcomes. If you stick with this forum and listen to the knowledgeable folks you will come out on top. If you decide to get your feelings hurt and run the other way then you are just cutting off your nose to spite your face. you arent going to hurt anyone by not contributing here except yourself. I hope you stay and if you dont, good luck to ya.

 

[Jadotha]

She didn't say not to socialize her, she just said she didn't with her female. The male was socialized like crazy, he was just a big sweet heart.

And just b/c my dog isn't AKC recognized, or comes from a reputable breeder (she didn't mean for her dog to get pregnant... It was her first heat), doesn't mean she is not a real mastiff. It's rude to say she's not. And if that's how people are on this forum I don't think this is the right place for me.

Sorry, sorry srmorris!!! You are caught up in a larger, and unfortunately emotional issue that really has nothing to do with you! Please don't leave on account of it. I'm sure you adore your puppy, and it sounds like she could be really cute. Could you post pictures?

I don't know about Shar Peis -- so maybe check their forums as well. What I would expect with a part mastiff puppy is a lot of playful bitey/chewy behaviour. After having kept Danes and IWHs for decades, we were shocked at first with our EM baby Piranha. You can deal with this by saying a firm 'No' or 'ouch!' and redirecting with a toy -- or leaving the room and stopping play until the puppy has calmed. When they are calm, they are 'love bugs' and want to be with you 24/7 (this is true of AMs,too according to forum members). Early socialisation is important, whatever happened with Mum !! Keep in mind that you will probably have a large-ish dog at the end of the day and want to do everything you can to develop confidence and prevent shyness or aggression.