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All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all States

Robtouw

Well-Known Member
Yesterday after thoroughly reviewing NC 2013 HB 956 and getting a bit angry, I sent a lengthy reply to the Representatives that pushed this particular little bill, fortunately it was dead for this session. I spoke with Rep. Moore’s office for over an hour yesterday regarding this bill. The purpose of it was to address a complaint from a particular group that is pushing for restriction of certain breeds, it was written in a way to get attention but not actually pass. I have been asked and have volunteered to help collect some information from responsible owners and help actually create legislation first on a state level then to be shared on a federal push that would take the focus off of “aggressive breed†labeling and instead put focus on “aggressive animal ownersâ€.
We would like to look at the judicial system that does not really address nor punish offenders and instead puts the blame on the animal in its entirety.

We have an opportunity here to speak out on behalf of our beloved breeds. I am asking that anyone that reads this post answer a few questions, I will take the answers collectively and submit ideas/concerns to the representatives that are interested in this project.

Please provide your thoughts, and do not sugar coat, be Blount and Descriptive:
  1. What are your thoughts on the current judicial system or what you know about punishment for animal cruelty, fighting, breeding aggression, neglect or misuse of K9’s?
  2. When you see or suspect animal cruelty, fighting, breeding aggression, neglect or misuse of K9’s do you report it? Do you have access to a program that will address the issue without you being identified?
  3. What do you think should happen to the animals in the situation?
  4. When do you feel the owner is responsible for a dog bite/attack and when the dog should be exempt for responsibility of biting/attacking?
  5. If a program was set up to track animal cruelty offenders based on the sexual predators database would you use it prior to selling pups, getting care for your dogs, before boarding? Please state why yes or no.
  6. Ideas for increasing breed personality awareness and removing aggressive labels from breeds but labeling owners “dog aggressorsâ€, within certain limits.
  7. Would you be offended if your state required you to not only provide rabies vac’s for your dog, but insurance against bites, and a free citizen based responsible dog ownership course provided either on line or in your vet’s office?
  8. Last, any thoughts, concerns that you would like to voice in a civilized manner on dog ownership?
Thanks everyone! I will compile the responses and prep statements to this congressional office, and may as we discuss, post a few more questions!
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

1: in many areas the crime of animal abuse is barely a misdemeanor. MANY studies have shown that people who deliberetly abuse animals often go on to abuse humans. I'd LOVE to see the punishment for animal abuse be a felony. I do however think that local law enforcement needs to have the wiggle room to determine if this first time offender is not deliberetly neglecting their animal and refer them for help rather than charges. Please note the emphisis on first time offender, and that things like beating an animal or dog fighting are not neglect.....

2: Yes, and unfortunetly No

3: If abuse is determined to be happening the animals need to be seized and rehomed. Neglect is iffier and would have to depend on the situation.

4: If the animal is off-leash in a leash required area, or the owner appears to have deliberetly put the dog in a situation where they know its going to react badly without taking appropriate precautions (ie: muzzle), then the owner should be liable (this gets hard to prove legally I realize).

A dog who is defending itself, its owner, or its owners property (including other animals, a physical location such as the home place, and the like), or if there is reasonable proof that the person "attacked" by the dog has previously caused mental or physical harm to the dog or the dog's owner such that the dog could be deemed to be protecting itself or its owner, then the dog/owner is not liable.

(the above is not all inclusive.....)

5: yes, but like with the sex offender registry I'd be willing to consider the actual facts of the incident (did you know that a guy who's 18, with a 15yr old girlfriend, can be legally charged with rape and end up on that list for life even if the girl was a willing partner?)

6: maybe yes maybe no it would depend on to many factors, but like with current dog registrations that sort of thing is fairly easy to get around

7: I'll think on it
 
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raechiemay

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

1. My thoughts are reprocussions for animal abuse/neglect is not strict enough. I realize the justice system cannot simply throw these people in jail for years on end, but in some abuse cases that are considered more severe then yes the harsher the punishment that is given to the offender the better. The way I see it is most repeat offenders will continue to abuse/neglect animals if they are basically just slapped on the wrist & like Ruth said, go on to abuse people/children. I mean if that person would abuse/neglect a child then of course the law would hand it to them. I'm not saying animals should be given the same rights as people & children, but I definitely think the punishment for such crimes should be increased. A first time offender in a neglect case might could be given that "slap on the wrist" as a situation such as loss of a job, home, etc might have been the accidental cause for the neglect BUT in any abuse case first time offender or not, where the abuse was intentional then yes a harsh punishment is warranted to make this person not want to do it again.

2. This type of question is actually something I had to deal with this year. I know someone who has multiple (15+) horses on a 2 acre lot. There are so many incidents with these people & their horses, its much too long to go in to but they were reported anonymously & I believe the beginning stages of the HS taking over the horses is in the works. With that being said I do believe that anyone here that witnesses abuse/neglect can report to the necessary authorities without being identified. I think the bad thing about this is usually it takes several calls/reports in order to get them out to the place to identify the problem for themselves. In the instance I stated above, this is going on at least 4 months, if not longer, before the HS decided to do anything about it. But I believe the reports had been filed with both AC & HS so there might have just been a miscommunication between the 2.

3. This is where I'm going to say it depends. A first time neglect offender might could be given a written warning stating they must provide a proper diet, medical care, etc by X date otherwise all rights will be provoked & the animal will be removed from the property. I don't believe the waiting period should be that long, maybe a couple of days...week at the most. I say this in regards to maybe very minor neglect cases like I stated above due to the owner losing a job, home, etc. I believe in any abuse case, once confirmed, the animal should be removed from the property immediately. IF the animal is suitable to be re-adopted then it should be evaluated & placed in an appropriate environment.

4. This is where I would say that if the owner knows that the dog is capable of causing bodily harm to any person or another animal & they are purposely putting the dog in the situation where such injury will be caused then they should be held accountable. If it appears to be a one time, fluke kind of deal then maybe not. But like Ruth said this might be hard to legally prove in certain situations. I'm tired of hearing ignorant owners say "Oh he never does that!"

5. I would say yes. If I ever decided to venture into breeding, especially with anything considered an "aggressive" breed then I would want to know for sure where my pups were going & that they weren't just going to fall into the wrong hands. My dogs are my children & if they are going to be in a boarding facility then absolutely I would want to look up the people responsible for running the establishment & make sure that my babies are not being mistreated in any way whatsoever.

6. Not sure I have any productive ideas to change this, but will read through any other responses on the thread to gain a better understanding of how others think this can be changed.

7. I'm going to say no. I actually think a lot of first time dog owners, especially with bully breeds, need this type of instruction.

8. Started typing...decided my response was not so civilized. I can PM if you would like.
 

Robtouw

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Thank you to the two owners that responded! I am super disapointed in the lack of response. It seems when there is an opportunity to speak and make a difference no on wants involvement. But when someone writes legislation that is not received well they bark behind closed doors and complain about the outcome in private. If you never speak out, you never make an impact. It does not surprise me that the two that replied, Ruth & Rache did, both of you seem very passionate about your pups! I appreciate you!
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

See if the mods will move it to say the General section. I know I dont' always read this section if the law in question isn't for my area, so some may have missed it.
 

SavingGrace

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

I can add my two cents:
I personally know someone who was walking their lab, on leash at night, who was attacked by a stray Pit Bull. The Pit only went after the lab, but ended up chasing the lab back into their house and into her crate, biting the entire time. They managed to get the Pit into the garage and called Animal Control (which is what you do in our area). Animal Control takes the dog, waits for them to be claimed, and if they aren't claimed they are killed in order to do rabies testing. The lab that was attacked needed surgery and both people walking the lab were also bit. I don't think Pit Bulls are bad dogs, and I'm sure this attack was a product of how the animal was clearly neglected or trained to fight. I felt bad for the Pit, but can imagine my level of fear if I was walking my dog at night and out of no where, a loose dog that was skilled at fighting came up and started attacking my dog or me. Since no one claimed the dog - who do you blame? States could mandate that all dogs are microchipped and owners are reported to the type of offender database that was mentioned.

Several months ago there was a report on the news of a BullMastiff killing it's owner in the house. There were two other dogs in the house at the time, a Pit Bull and a Boxer. They couldn't pinpoint exactly what happened, but the BullMastiff was blamed because of his size, even though he had never displayed aggressive behavior. I am not sure how it ended but I know Animal Control picked up the Mastiff.

As much as I would like to always place blame on the owners (and believe me, I do believe people that neglect, fight, abuse, etc. animals should be fully punished.) I also have to point the fingers at where ever they are getting these dogs from. Those of us who are true dog enthusiasts are responsible for our dogs - clearly there are many people out there who have no business having a dog of any kind, especially a large 'aggressive' dog. Where do they get them from and who is selling to them?

In our area, the dog that is on leash is generally not at fault.

I personally, don't think it's the governments business to tell me what kind of dogs I can have - but I do think it's sad that the business of breeding dogs is largely unregulated. There are so many BYB for so many aggressive breeds that have no business even breeding these dogs. I think any dog affiliated regulation needs to stem from where the problems start (BYB selling dogs to anyone and everyone) and continue to hold people accountable for the actions of their dog. In my state, dogs are considered property - if your property causes damage, you are responsible.

On a separate note - several states have passed what's called a Puppy Lemon Law - which although not related to dog aggression, I think should be passed in every state. It encourages responsible breeding, regulates and discourages puppy mills and adds regulation to the sale of any dog in the state. For many of us as consumers - if we get screwed on a purchase (whether it be for health problems or aggressive behavior) there is no recourse with BYB's. I think it's highly possible these attacks come from inexperienced breeders selling dogs to inexperienced owners. There needs to be some regulation on breeding all dogs - to encourage the responsible ones and weed out the ones who have no business breeding.

I'm not sure if any of that makes sense - it's early and I have barely had my morning coffee :)
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

SavingGrace, for one your response made perfect sense to me. And I 100% agree with requiring people to microchip their pets. I wish this was something that would go into effect NOW, unfortunately if they were going to start requiring it, it would probably be awhile before we'd start seeing it. I say this for the reason that dogs are stolen out of backyards, dumped out in rural areas, turned loose in a neighborhood bc the owner just doesn't care. You're right that a dog is an owner's property but if you can't prove it's yours when it's stolen or Bob's when he dumps it out in the country, or my parents neighbor who allows his extremely aggressive lab mix to run around the neighborhood terrorizing people & dogs. The only reason why we know where that dog belongs to is I finally caught him intentionally letting the dog out the front door & allowing her to run off. I immediately called AC & they got an ear full as I'm tired of hearing about how this dog constantly comes after my mom. We haven't really seen the dog out since.

And byb's just infuriate me. I've learned from 2 instances of getting dogs from 1 just how much I can't stand them. I realize that there are some small hobby breeders that might fall into this category but breeders who strictly pump out puppies for profit, breeding bad dogs & then just selling them to anyone with the cash. I see a lot of these on Craigslist. This is how these low life's dog fighters & abusers are getting these dogs. They'll forever have a constant supply unless one of the factors in the equation goes away. I think the chances of increasing punishment for dog fighters & abusers making them not want to commit these crimes is probably more likely than getting rid of all BYBs. Unfortunately, no matter what laws get passed, I think there will always be a BYB or a puppy mill somewhere. It's extremely sad but then what else are these a**holes gonna do to make money. Heaven forbid they get a real job.
 

LauraR

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

What are your thoughts on the current judicial system or what you know about punishment for animal cruelty, fighting, breeding aggression, neglect or misuse of K9’s?
My thoughts are that this is going to be a never ending issue until the judicial system starts recognizing that the problem lies not within the dog, but within the owner. Too often the dogs are the ones punished/put to death while the owners are now free to go out and get a new one and start the cycle all over again. The punishment for animal cruelty, fighting, breed aggression, neglect and misuse are too relaxed on the owners. In Kansas City we recently had 2 men arrested for being part of a 3 state dog fighting ring. They removed 71 dogs from his home and the abuse/neglect was unimaginable. At most he will get a fine and 5 years in jail. As soon as he gets out, he will probably start doing it again. Most of those dogs will unfortunately be put down because of their aggression. So sad.

When you see or suspect animal cruelty, fighting, breeding aggression, neglect or misuse of K9’s do you report it? Do you have access to a program that will address the issue without you being identified?
Yes, I do report it. Our animal control does give you the option to make reports without giving your name.


What do you think should happen to the animals in the situation?
First offence, I think the OWNERS should be given education and resources to help correct the problem. Second offence the animal should be removed from the home until the owner can complete training on the dog if it's aggressive and if there is abuse involved, also complete some type of anger management/abuse class and provide proof of both to a court before being able to reclaim their animal. I think that there should also be some temporary mark on their records so that if they move and have another issue, people can know that they've already had strike two. If it happens a third time, I feel like the dog should be immediately removed from their home and they should serve jail time and not be allowed to own any animals at all, period, end of story until a minimum of 5 years after they are released from jail and only after they have completed X amount of hours re-educating themselves and receiving therapy to determine exactly WHY they are abusing/neglecting/exploiting animals. I also feel that it should go on their permanent record so that if they ever do it again, their jail time doubles with each offence.


When do you feel the owner is responsible for a dog bite/attack and when the dog should be exempt for responsibility of biting/attacking?
I would say that a good portion of the time the owner is completely responsible for a dog bite/attack. I do have to point out though that there are circumstances where it is not the owners fault entirely, some dogs misbehave despite what their owners do. However, responsible dog owners will recognize this and take the steps necessary to avoid it. Through training, education on the breed temperament and if necessary muzzling the dog in public or caging it when people come to the house. I feel like a dog should be exempt from responsibility when it has bitten/attacked numerous times and the owner has done nothing.

If a program was set up to track animal cruelty offenders based on the sexual predators database would you use it prior to selling pups, getting care for your dogs, before boarding? Please state why yes or no.
Absolutely. Animal cruelty is the gateway to human cruelty. I wouldn't leave my children with a sex offender and I certainly would not let my dog be cared for by an animal abuser.

Ideas for increasing breed personality awareness and removing aggressive labels from breeds but labeling owners “dog aggressors”, within certain limits.
I know many states/cities/counties make you register or license your dog. Perhaps along with the registration they could do an online test or something that is breed specific to what they have. Keeping track of owners that mistreat/abuse/neglect their dogs would be a great start to switch the labeling process from bad dog to bad owner. I think that a lot of this stems from the media though. For anything positive to happen in legislation, it first needs to happen in the media. Leave the breed of dog out of the story and just merely report it as a dog bite, dog attack, etc. There is absolutely no benefit to the masses in saying the bite occurred from a Pit Bull, Mastiff, German Shepard, etc.

Would you be offended if your state required you to not only provide rabies vac’s for your dog, but insurance against bites, and a free citizen based responsible dog ownership course provided either on line or in your vet’s office?
I would not be offended, but I do not feel like I should have to get special insurance against bites unless I have a history of owning dogs that have bitten previously. I do believe that every single dog owner in the US should be required to complete a responsible dog ownership course online or with their vet.

Last, any thoughts, concerns that you would like to voice in a civilized manner on dog ownership?
I wish there were a way to make certain breeds completely unobtainable by the masses. We try, but all it takes is one idiot and next thing you know, the breed is ruined. I feel that certain breeds that require a more experienced dog owner should just be off limits to inexperienced people. I'll use the Cane Corso for this example, it is a beautiful dog, but too many idiots are getting them without any experience and then scratching their heads when it starts acting out because they are just letting it roam their back yard without any interaction with people or other animals. I believe that people getting dogs as a status symbol or just because they look pretty is a very large part of the problem. In addition to that, there should be much stronger punishments for multiple offenders. Right now, the max they will get in my state is 5 years and a fine. They just arrested some lady this month for animal neglect. It is the 3rd or 4th time she has been arrested for the exact same thing and each time there are over 10 animals they have to remove from her home along with a few dead ones. Each time she gets out of jail, she goes right back to animal hoarding.

Edit: To specify when I say that I wish it were mandatory that people take educational courses when registering dogs and stuff like that, I mean stuff like helping educate people on resources and temperaments. Not stuff like whether or not you have a fenced yard, what food you feed your dog and crap like that. More along the lines on what to do if your dog starts to show aggression, identifying the various types of aggression, when to seek professional help, how to find trainers, why you shouldn't breed your dog, proper medical care, finding the right dog for your family, understanding certain breed temperaments etc.
 
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Jadotha

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Here are my thoughts! Sorry this is delayed -- I was baby-sitting my grandson, and simply didn't have time!

My general philosophy about the 'Dangerous breeds'/'dangerous dogs' issue is that stronger legislation is needed holding owners accountable for their dogs' behaviour, not the dogs themselves. I believe strict leash laws should be implemented and enforced. Hefty fines should be imposed on irresponsible owners who allow their dogs to run about loose.
If, whilst loose, dogs attack/bite people causing serious maulings or fatalities, owners should be subject to charges of manslaughter and negligent homicide, as well as paying for a victim's medical care. If it becomes seriously risky and expensive to own a seriously aggressive dog that is untrained and unrestrained, people may reconsider breeding or owning them.


1.
What .are your thoughts on the current judicial system or what you know about punishment for animal cruelty, fighting, breeding aggression, neglect or misuse of K9’s?

I believe the laws in most areas are too lax for intentional animal cruelty and fighting. I think these should be classified as felonies. 'Breeding aggression' is a trickier issue. How do you prove an individual is aggressive, and that a person bred for aggression? Whilst it may be 'common sense' that if you breed a dog with aggressive tendencies to another with aggressive tendencies, you are going to find individual puppies prone to aggression in the litter. However, those puppies have a genetic legacy that extends deeply into past generations. Genes stick around, and one doesn't know when they will be expressed. Genetics is not destiny. There is a middle ground, supported by current scientific evidence, that genetics are part of the 'aggressiveness' picture, but far from the whole story. Thus far a single gene for 'aggression' in canines has not been identified. There have been some candidates, but at this point it is generally believed -- in terms of published papers, at least --that aggression is under polygenic control.

Also, the role of 'nurture' is, in my mind, as significant as genetics. As a dog is trained/learns, its brain chemistry and even structure can be altered, and behaviour can alter via this route. As an example, using one of our genetically harder breeds, you will never get suspicion and dislike of strangers to abate in Fila, but they can be trained to be obedient and to tolerate to some (variable) extent being in the presence of strangers.


Neglect is also a 'grey' area. What some people may see as neglect (e.g., an dog that is kept outdoors 24/7), others may think is perfectly reasonable). Also there is a broad scontinuum of of actions/inaction that could be consered neglect -- from 'mild' (e.g., not brushed/ groomed/nails unclipped, fed 'Ol Roy") to 'severe' (starvation, isolation, no or inadequate treatment for serious medical problems). For this area, I believe we need a scale of severity -- with different appropriate penalties. These could range from a fine and mandatory attendence at a course on dog management to large fines and jail time for the other extreme.

2. Yes. Yes -- although this system is being abused to some extent by people reporting cases just to be vindictive to their neighbors.

3. What do you think should happen to the animals in the situation? Again, as I said above, I think a scale should be defined, with appropriate actions and penalties -- ranging form education and fines, but leaving the pet in the home, to removing the pet, rehabilitating and rehoming it, and sentencing the owners to hefty fines and jail time.

4. If the dog is running loose (as seems to be the case in the majority of these maulings and fatalities), the owner should be held heavily accountable (see my intro. paragraph). If the dog is on a leash but attacks/provokes someone else's dog (with or without the other persons collusionI), the owner should be held accountable. If the dog is defending her own or her owner's safety, or her property, I don't think the owner should be liable.

5. Maybe.... my concern would be similar to Ruth's. I would want such a registry not only to identify names, but the details of the cases.
6. I think that right now there are many good breed awareness events. However, my observation is that many of these take place at dog shows, and there are not nearly enough of them, with sufficiently easy access to reach the 'Average Joe' who is going to pick up a newspaper or consult Craig's list to buy his next pup. I have noticed that our local Petco -- which works with local shelters to put on 'adoption' Saturdays -- has been doing more educating on 'know the breeds' during these events. If local breed clubs for 'at risk' dogs perceived as 'dangerous' and harder temperament dogs could collaborate to put on breed awareness events in local shopping malls, parks, etc. this could be most helpful. Obviously, someone would need to propose the idea and organise events (possibly city officials or legislators?) These could also include 'how to's' of proper dog care and management + trouble shooting owner problems.

I don't see the point of labeling people as 'dog aggressors' -- what does this mean?

7. Yes, as a giant breed owner for more than 20 years, I would be VERY offended. Additionally, what would the content of a 'responsible dog owner' course include -- who is going to decide? The vets? So we will all be learning to spay/neuter between 4 and 6 months? I am in favour of free and accessible education classes on various aspects of care and training. And, as noted in my first paragraph, it think people who are found to have abused/neglected their dogs should be compelled to attend mandatory classes. Sufficiently steep fines should be sufficient to encourage people to get bite insurance.

8. Expressed in my intro.

 

SavingGrace

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

raechi - I agree with you as well! I also feel that allowing BYB's to continue producing unhealthy dogs or more concerning in the case of giant breed dogs, dogs with unstable temperaments - to be a form of animal cruelty as well. BYB's disgust me pumping out litters of dogs that they are NOT knowledgable about and then selling those dogs to inexperienced owners can end in dog attacks as well. BYB's need to be held accountable for what they produce as well. The reputable breeders won't have any problem conforming to regulation because they are already doing things right. Let's hold the a**holes to a higher standard and see how many of them are left.
 

LauraR

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

raechi - I agree with you as well! I also feel that allowing BYB's to continue producing unhealthy dogs or more concerning in the case of giant breed dogs, dogs with unstable temperaments - to be a form of animal cruelty as well. BYB's disgust me pumping out litters of dogs that they are NOT knowledgable about and then selling those dogs to inexperienced owners can end in dog attacks as well. BYB's need to be held accountable for what they produce as well. The reputable breeders won't have any problem conforming to regulation because they are already doing things right. Let's hold the a**holes to a higher standard and see how many of them are left.

I feel like BYBs should be required to register their breedings as a home business. Honestly that's what most of them are doing anyway(only in it for the money). Then I feel like they could be held to higher standards, plus I feel like the idea of being required to register for it, get licensing, and pay taxes on it might possibly deter some people. But then again, it is kind of tricky because I don't think reputable/ethical breeders should be forced to do this because they already do everything they're supposed to.
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

You know, having seen shows on animal hoarding (or hoarding in general) & I find this very interesting. Not in the case people should keep doing it, but it's very obvious these people need some therapy themselves in order to correct the situation. But even after therapy, will they stop? You ever notice how hostile these people get when you take away their animals? They could have 120 cats but every cat has it's own name & "place" in their home. I completely do not agree with this & in most circumstances I think a pet limit should be enforced in most cities. Maybe a limit of pets per 1 person. I highly doubt that 1 person can adequately care for 120 cats/dogs. I just don't foresee how that's possible.
 

Amanda F.

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

For those that don't know, I am an animal control officer for the city of Indianapolis. I am extremely frustrated by the prosecution or lack of in my city and especially smaller counties/cities here and elsewhere. I work very hard to report my findings on neglect cases in as much detail as possible. In the end, it comes down to the judge. I have had several cases that frustrate me to no end. The owner's get off with a "slap on the wrist" with the minimum fine here for care and treatment being $25! I goes up to $2500 but often times the min. fine is imposed. I think it's absolutely ridiculous, especially in cases of repeat offenders. I recently had a case where I found a dog nearly dead and half frozen. He was chained, with the chain wrapped directly around his neck, lying in the dirt and had been starved nearly to death. He was unable to move, his heart rate was 40 when I got back to the shelter. He did not have a dog house and his food and water bowls were almost completely buried in the dirt. His body temp. was very low. We were able to warm him up and bring him back. He was 32lbs when I found him. He gained 7 lbs in the first 5 days we had him. It was clearly a case of starvation. I did make contact with the owner, 18 yr old male. I issued him citations and begged my Sgt. to get the case to go criminal, with the final decision made by the prosecutor. As far as I know nothing ever happened with the case. I was never subpoenaed to testify and I 'm sure he didn't ever appear in court. It makes me sick. I forgot to mention, the same owner had been issued citations for care and treatment in reference to the same dog just 2 months before I found him. This is not an isolated case, just one that really got to me. IMO the kid should have been fined the maximum fine and/or served some jail time. Really my opinion goes a little further than that but that is my "civilized" answer. 2. Our system does allow people to report neglect/abuse without naming themselves. I understand a lot of people fear retaliation, esp. given some of the areas that I work. However if someone reports their neighbor beating their dog, we have nothing to go on if we don't have a witness. We can still check the animal but majority of the time, we do not witness any signs of injury to the dog, so it's a dead end. Even if we suspect it to be true, we can't do anything without a witness. When I witness abuse or neglect, I do report it. 3. It depends on the situation. If the violations are severe enough or I feel the dog's life is in danger, I will remove the animal immediately, even if its the first time we have ever been called to the residence. If we have no history with the listed address or person, I do my best to educate the owner and give them as much information and resource sheets that I can to improve the living conditions of the animal(s). It is really a case by case basis and many factors are involved before I make a decision on what I'm going to do. If violations are present and the owner is cooperative and willing to make the required changes, I allow them time to fix things and return to check their progress. I am not required to immediately issue citations for violations that I observe so working with people is something that I do often. I think it is important to educate owner's as much as possible. Sadly a lot of them don't see any problem with the fact that their dog's drinking water is green and filled with mosquito larvae... 4. If the owner does not have control of their animal, they are responsible for the attack/bite. Owners should not be held responsible if someone is bitten in their home if they are in the process of committing a crime. That is written here but I know that is not the case everywhere. 5. I'm not sure about this one. It could possibly be beneficial but as Ruth stated, I think a lot of dogs/owners could be placed on the list that really shouldn't be there. I think it would be incredibly difficult to put that together without some misinformation going on. I'm not sure how it would be generated/maintained. We can look in our computer (at work) and see if a person has been issued previously for different violations. However we do not have direct access to how their previous court cases turned out. Just because they were written does not mean they were found guilty. 6. I talk to people daily and hear negative things about specific breeds. I try my best to educate people and let them know it's not the breed, it's the owner. But I am just one person talking to one person. Sadly the media is no help on this one. Their ratings are much higher if they show the aggressive man eating pit bull story than anything positive. If owner's here are found guilty of certain violations (neglect, animal attacks, bites) we have an ordinance stating that they are only permitted to have 2 dogs, both have to be spayed/neutered, vaccinated and microchipped. In cases where they are repeat offenders or severe care and treatment violations, they are made to be "no owner/keepers" which means they are not allowed to own or keep an animals within the city. 7. I would not. We are required to have our dogs/cats rabies vaccinated here. They are also required to wear their tags. I actually have been working on pushing a training class at our shelter. It would only be offered to people who adopt from us but I think it would help so much. We have returns all the time due to people not knowing how to deal with a particular issue. If we could offer some kind of support it would be nice. So many people I talk to on a daily basis seem to have no clue what training is. 8. I'm with Raechiemay on this one :)
 

LauraR

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Where I live there are limits, you can have up to 3 dogs and up to 5 cats. And are you surprised of the animal hoarders getting hostile about removing their pets? Have you ever seen an episode of Hoarders where they are just collecting old news papers and McDonald's cups? They will try to stab you if you even THINK about throwing something away. I'm really not surprised that they act the same with animals. These people need years and years of therapy before they should be allowed to own any living creatures again.
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Oh yeah. I watched an episode of hoarders last night & this lady was going through people's trash & taking items that she thought she needed or could use. Unfortunately I strongly believe my grandmother had an issue with hoarding items BUT her home never looked like those homes on tv. She often would just pile stuff in a room with a door, then close the door. Her biggest problem was buying clearance/sale items from every store she went to & would think in her mind, "I'm going to use this for this or I'm going to buy this to replace this in the house". She bought a home & a few years later while facing foreclosure, she had all these items, pretty much you name it, she had it & was then faced with the task of selling or storing these items. To me, her behavior was a mark of depression even when she didn't seem depressed.

I would say most cities do have pet limits which is great but how strictly are they enforced? It's obvious people get away with exceeding their limits.

Amanda, thank you for your post!! I found it very interesting & it wasn't just the same old stuff from animal cops or anything you see on tv.
 

Amanda F.

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

@raechiemay Thanks :) That was the short version! lol I am sure I left a lot out but was surprised when I hit post and saw that it was so long! Sorry for the way it turned out...for some reason my laptop was not allowing me to hit enter and break it up...I have no idea what's up with that!
 

Jadotha

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Just a comment: In our neighborhood there are leash laws that ARE strictly enforced, as well as specifications about fencing or other containment. In addition to the ubiquitous Labs, there are several Pit Bulls (both show and pet), 2 Ovcharka's, a GSD, 2 Rotties, a Dobe, a Basenji mix, an OE Sheepdog, as well as our own Wolfie and English Mastiff. In the eight years we have lived here, there have been two instances of a dog running loose (with owners in immediate hot, frantic pursuit) and no dog attacks on/biting of other dogs or humans.
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Jadotha, I would like to think there's leash laws where my parents live, but obviously it's not strictly enforced. Loose dogs are so common in that neighborhood & quite often the missing ones don't return. They live near the lake & coyotes are plentiful down there. That's how their neighbor lost their shih tzu. This man that constantly let's his dog out on purpose is an idiot. And I've called AC on him several times. The most recent time I think they finally decided to do something about it bc they were tired of me calling.
 

ruby55

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Rob you are my HERO! I have to leave for work in a few minutes but I'll be sure to respond to your questions asap. And thanks again for standing up for your beliefs, and dogs everywhere.
 

Jadotha

Well-Known Member
Re: All owners, please answer a few questions about creating new legislation, all Sta

Jadotha, I would like to think there's leash laws where my parents live, but obviously it's not strictly enforced
.

Yes, this is too often the case. It's much easier just to pass BSL legislation than to enforce laws/regulations that could prevent the (perceived) need for it.