Hey I haven't been on in a bit so I just saw all of this. Glad I could start this thread so that not only I am being educated, but Marke and Brady can too! Guys, I understand that this is what you have always been taught and that it can be hard to change old habits (I know because I'm experiencing it at this very moment); however, you definitely need to realize that the information being given to you makes a lot of sense. These people that are giving this information seem to be extremely knowledgeable in there fields and have scientific evidence/reputable sources to back it up. I agree with Hiraeth and his crew here that if I would have alpha rolled I could have been hurt. The first time it didn't result in that, but how many times could I chance it before I got seriously injured? There is much more going on here than just a dog that thinks he is alpha. He is unruly, bossy, and problematic all around. He needs positive training methods to build respect and admiration for his owners and I. Overall I would like to truly thank you guys for all the wonderful information.
To Boxergirl - It would actually be really nice to have some help locating a possible trainer in my area. I'm not sure what the decision of the owners will be at this moment when it comes to training, but it wouldn't hurt to know! Thank you so much!
P.S. To Brady - If you truly believe that telling me to leave a mastiff-specific forum full of professionals and turn to Facebook is good advice, then you need to rethink where you seek your information from. Facebook is full of wannabe dog trainers with a few good ones scattered out.
I'm glad you feel that way, Brandon. I'm a woman, by the way
I was once a very P+, dominance-based trainer myself. I don't say the things I say because I'm some sort of timid or soft-spoken female who thinks everything should be sunshine and rainbows, and that treats are the solution to all dog problems. I'm certainly not timid or soft-spoken - I have a CPL, I frequent the firing range, I recently made my first foray into bow hunting, and I am the first person who will speak up if I think someone is rude or disrespectful.
I saw the detrimental effect P+ training had on my dogs firsthand when I was in my early 20s. My timing for punishments was reasonably good, and yet those punishments weren't teaching my dogs much. They still misbehaved occasionally, did not enjoy training, and did not pick up on new tasks easily because they were afraid of doing things wrong. They wouldn't recall to me because they weren't sure if they'd get punished as soon as they returned.
I realized things weren't going as well as they could, and started doing some research. I came to understand that teaching a dog with punishment is like trying to effectively raise a human child by ignoring him, yelling at him, pinning him the ground, or slapping him in the face every time he does something wrong. Will the kid eventually learn? Maybe. Will the kid be intimidated, angry, and likely to lash out in anger in the future? Yes. Same with dogs. Behavioral studies prove that dogs who are trained with P+ techniques are far more likely to growl and bite their owners. One example:
Survey of the use and outcome of confrontational and non-confrontational training methods in client-owned dogs showing undesired behaviors, Journal of Applied Animal Behavioral Science, Jan. 2009 (
http://vet.osu.edu/assets/pdf/hospital/behavior/trainingArticle.pdf)
"Several confrontational methods such as ‘‘hit or kick dog for undesirable behavior’’ (43%), ‘‘growl at dog’’ (41%), ‘‘physically force the release of an item from a dog’s mouth’’ (39%), ‘‘alpha roll’’ (31%), ‘‘stare at or stare [dog] down’’ (30%), ‘‘dominance down’’ (29%), and ‘‘grab dog by jowls and shake’’ (26%) elicited an aggressive response from at least a quarter of the dogs on which they were attempted. Dogs presenting for aggression to familiar people were more likely to respond aggressively to the confrontational techniques ‘‘alpha roll’’ and yelling ‘‘no’’ compared to dogs with other presenting complaints (P < 0.001)."
Contrary to some belief here, Danes are not easy dogs. They are on many (most, actually) aggressive and banned breed lists. They're #6 on Forbes' 2012 list of most often banned breeds, below Pitbull and Staffordshire Terriers, Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers, German Shepherds and Chows and above Presa Canarios, Akitas, Malamutes, Huskies and Wolf hybrids (
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhi...eeds-for-homeowners-and-renters/#3a82694526ec). They are frequently rehomed and euthanized due to bite histories. They are not a breed that can be manhandled, or put on the ground. Both of my dogs are physically stronger than I am, one by a significant margin. Danes MUST be well trained - living with a 160+ lb untrained dog isn't an option, it's actually dangerous. As well as being pretty decently trained, my dogs also happen to sleep in my bed, sit on my lap when I watch football, rest their heads on the dinner table when I'm eating (because I don't ask them not to) and walk through doors before me. I don't care about any of those things because none of them mean that my dogs think they're the "boss".
At the end of the day, mutual respect and friendship is far more rewarding than respect earned through fear and punishment. Having been on both ends of the spectrum (and many places in between), I can tell you that I've never had two better trained dogs, or a better understanding of why they behave the way they do.
If you want to recommend a professional trainer to your girlfriend and her family, this is a really good resource to begin locating someone in your area:
https://apdt.com/trainer-search/