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Why I'll never own a Fila

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
oh brother... and what was your point exactly...unlike you I am not a mind reader. BTW I covered EVERY single point brought up so you are gonna have to be less subtle.

Ace, I know you dont always grasp things but I wouldnt say you are completly oblivious. I think you see the obvious but refuse to acknowledge it as so.
 

aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
Did you switch that up on your own, or did your dog fighting buddy do that? FYI he is studding your puppy out for a grand. Did he get those hips checked? Oh he didn't? Who's in it 100% for the money?
 

slim12

Well-Known Member
There seems to be some history here that I am unaware of. I didn't mean to get anything going, or fan the flames of something that didn't need it. My apologies.
My first dogs were CBKC. I liked the first one. I did not especially like the next two. I had a dog off of CAFIB parents who looked nice but lacked the ability or the desire to work. My next Fila was 1/2 and 1/2. A solid dog that looked good, had a great temperament but lacked the ability to work. My dreams of perfecting the Fila world took some serious hits. LOL. Both organizations had their pros and cons. I am not a great believer in papers and registries on either side. I find it hard to believe either side of the fence can know what happened 10-15-20 years ago within a pedigree, and even further back. I know people who live in the states and will fight tooth and nail over a dogs lineage that came from Brazil. And stake the farm that Dog A was bred to Dog B and raised Dogs C D E F in 1971. I find it hard to argue and fight over something neither of the combatants can prove or disprove with anything other than their personal opinion.
Secondly both standards are subjective and based on ones understanding and interpretation. If one judge did all the judging both standards would be far more consistent. But when a Judge A titles a dog that usually perpetuates breedings, which may result in dogs that are not liked by Judge B. This goes with both standards and both sets of judges. I would be the fan of the registry that said, 'the Fila was a working dog of long ago and there are little to no jobs left for him. We have pictures of the dogs when they were working and that is what we will strive to produce. Our new category is show dog with a working ancestry. I could live with this instead of all the nostalgic 'dogs of days gone by' rhetoric.
I would still like to see those videos of the dogs working a job. After admitting my attempt to perfect the Fila world failed I was left with a couple of ugly dogs who would work, and a couple of dogs that fit the standard but if that standard were soaked in water they could not work their way thru it. S
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
I watched the Lions Den videos of Butch and Bella. I will give them their due because they are puppies. They have sleeve experience. Sleeve experience is evident because they bit the sleeve, held the sleeve and even walked away with the sleeve. Bella turned her back on the decoy and sat down. As a puppy this is not the end all-be all of her temperament. But by both groups measuring sticks this is a failure. The dog can't turn their back to the threat. They can not turn back to find the re-assurance of the owner/handler. Both of the dogs were what is called "sleeve happy". The sleeve is not the threat it is the man. I have one video that I will need to change from VHS to some format to load here. It will show a brindle bitch elevate pass the sleeve and nearly get the decoy in the face, and never let up after him, and never turn her back until he leaves. The dog must be out front and on the ready.
This no knock on these two dogs as they are both young. If they will be worked on a sleeve thru-out there lives then they are off to a pretty good start. If they are continued to work the sleeve and become happy with the sleeve they will fail the temperament test for both groups. The sleeve can't be a prey item for the dog, he/she can't be satisfied with it an walk away or make a turn. If the sleeve is actually bit and the decoy releases it to the dog must drop it and continue the attack if the decoy is still posing as a danger.
Thirdly after 8 months if this decoy is known to the dogs it makes doing this very hard. The young dog will be confused by what is a threat and what is a game. This will be especially difficult for the fila as a defensive driven dog. It will be hard for him to have any type of release thru prey drive...ball drive...etc...etc..
The test should be done on a dog that is 12 months or older who is somewhat mature or at least has shown some 'ojeriza' on his own. It should be done by someone who is unknown to the dog. It should be done in a neutral area for the dog. It should be graded a go or no go. The dog should only get a couple chances to pass. After that there is little distinction between ojeriza and learned activities. S
 

aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
oh brother... lol.

Part of being a responsible breeder and bettering the breed is screening your buyers and keeping Filas out of the wrong hands. If I had a buyer studding out a untested dog (hip/temp) or telling everyone online what a "man eater" their Filas were, I would be having quite the talk with them. Actually I would not of sold it to them in the first place. But as you like to say, we don't swim in the same pool.
 
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aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
There seems to be some history here that I am unaware of. I didn't mean to get anything going, or fan the flames of something that didn't need it. My apologies.

Slim, nothing to do with you, no worries. Always good to hear your experience with the breed. BTW weren't you at the STL cafib show awhile back?
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
There seems to be some history here that I am unaware of. I didn't mean to get anything going, or fan the flames of something that didn't need it. My apologies.
My first dogs were CBKC. I liked the first one. I did not especially like the next two. I had a dog off of CAFIB parents who looked nice but lacked the ability or the desire to work. My next Fila was 1/2 and 1/2. A solid dog that looked good, had a great temperament but lacked the ability to work. My dreams of perfecting the Fila world took some serious hits. LOL. Both organizations had their pros and cons. I am not a great believer in papers and registries on either side. I find it hard to believe either side of the fence can know what happened 10-15-20 years ago within a pedigree, and even further back. I know people who live in the states and will fight tooth and nail over a dogs lineage that came from Brazil. And stake the farm that Dog A was bred to Dog B and raised Dogs C D E F in 1971. I find it hard to argue and fight over something neither of the combatants can prove or disprove with anything other than their personal opinion.
Secondly both standards are subjective and based on ones understanding and interpretation. If one judge did all the judging both standards would be far more consistent. But when a Judge A titles a dog that usually perpetuates breedings, which may result in dogs that are not liked by Judge B. This goes with both standards and both sets of judges. I would be the fan of the registry that said, 'the Fila was a working dog of long ago and there are little to no jobs left for him. We have pictures of the dogs when they were working and that is what we will strive to produce. Our new category is show dog with a working ancestry. I could live with this instead of all the nostalgic 'dogs of days gone by' rhetoric.
I would still like to see those videos of the dogs working a job. After admitting my attempt to perfect the Fila world failed I was left with a couple of ugly dogs who would work, and a couple of dogs that fit the standard but if that standard were soaked in water they could not work their way thru it. S

Thank you! I have never seen it better stated!
 

Tiger12490

Well-Known Member
COOL, lets see it! I know Lions Den should have a million videos of that, I just havent seen it.

Video I dont think there is any of it..I mean I went there lol....and honestly I have zero reasom to lie about it I make no money from it I get nothing from it...its just a fact...take it for what its worth

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
 

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
I would not say their is history between me and Juan. He just has a very cemented opinion that leans in one direction. And he will almost never not hate on anything not cafib. Where as I think there are no facts either way. I've seen poor examples either way you look. I dont think any of the rhetoric serves the breed. If there was focus on the good breeders and united hate towrads the bad ones, on both sides, it would certainly help everyone involved. From the guy looking for a pup, the ones selling the pups, and the pups them selves. But as we all know, this as been stated probably for 50yr at least. There is a margin of buyers that are a lost cause regardless and a margin of breeders for them buyers The rest just want a good dog without all the folklore and bastardization.
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
Thinking joke....but ok.....each is own.

I respect dogman for the insight that he brings, and though I tend to lean towards the "minority" he's certainly one of many sources who knows Fila.
 

mx5055

Well-Known Member
Thinking joke....but ok.....each is own.

I respect dogman for the insight that he brings, and though I tend to lean towards the "minority" he's certainly one of many sources who knows Fila.

I agree DD, and I was really just teasing you. I think there are some other people in this thread that really know their stuff too. I am fascinated and love reading these threads as I had never heard of a Fila before I joined this forum. I own some property in the mountains in California, and hope someday to build and finish out my life there. It is pretty isolated in the winter...only in and out by snowmobiles, and you are on your own pretty much. Bears and all other creatures and critters. I wouldn't mind having a dog like a Fila with me in that situation, but I am pretty sure they are too much dog for me and my experience. But, I still love what I learn in these threads :)
 

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
I respect dogman for the insight that he brings, and though I tend to lean towards the "minority" he's certainly one of many sources who knows Fila.

Yeap. If I was looking for a dog he would certainly be one of the folks I would talk to. But so would Ace. So there ya go
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
Should have said "many" here, lol, are also very good sources for Fila, Fila4me, mountainfila, Ace, just to name a few. Disagreements they may have but they love the Fila breed.