When to spay?

[trollnorsk]

We just got our puppy and are looking ahead. I have heard mixed reviews about when to spay an English Mastiff. Some say to wait until after her first heat to allow for her to grow to her fullest, others say to do it around 5-6 months (before heat) My boyfriend is worried that she won't grow to her full size if we spay her at that 5-6 month point. I do not want to go through a heat with her and would rather just go ahead and do it when most vets recommend. What do you guys think, or have had experience with?

 

[ruthcatrin]

18months minimum. Not only does early spay affect their growth, it affects their health.

When to spay/neuter is a common topic on this board if you do a search. Neutering or spaying early DOES have the very serious potential to increase all sorts of health risks for the dog however as those hormones affect all sorts of aspects of the dog's growth, so please consider waiting to do so. Assuming you are capable of not allowing the dog to roam.

For actual data....

This one is brand new, JUST published this month: PLOS ONE: Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers Golden Retrievers spay/edneutered before one year of age had MUCH higher rates of hip dysplasia, ligamiment tears, and cancers (note for most mastiffs we recommend waiting till at least 1.5yrs as they are slower to mature than Goldens).

And a compliation of studies: Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs and a clickable reference to it: Spay and Neuter Decisions - References

 

[LauraR]

I agree, 18 months minimum. I can understand you not wanting to deal with the hassles of her going into heat one or two times before you have her spayed, especially if you have no intentions of breeding her. However, one or two times of minor inconvenience are nothing compared to the long term health complications that could be involved with having her spayed too soon.

 

[jcook]

My boyfriend was insistent that I spay my cane Corso at 6 months. I was on board with the idea until I learned about the health risks associated with early spay. We have an intact male and Stella is going through her first heat now. It honestly is not that difficult. Stella's health is extremely important to me, even if this heat was ten times more difficult than it has been i would still not be spaying till age 2. And my bf who HATED the idea of dealing with a dog in heat has admitted it is not that hard to manage (and don't forget we have an intact male lol).

And like Ruth said, search spay and nueter on here, there are a lot of great articles on the subject.

 

[Smokeycat]

I know any female that I own regardless of breed won't be spayed before 1 year at the earliest. I've heard too many accounts of spay induced incontinence to want to risk that.

 

[LauraR]

I know any female that I own regardless of breed won't be spayed before 1 year at the earliest. I've heard too many accounts of spay induced incontinence to want to risk that.

In addition to that, they are still just babies. You wouldn't put a child through the trauma of a voluntary surgery, why do it for a dog? As with any surgery, there can be complications. My bichon got spayed at 8 months and ended up having a clotting disorder. Twice she developed such large blood clots that she ripped open all of her stitches and had to be rushed into emergency surgery to repair the damage. This is not incredibly common, but it was scary to think that we almost lost her because of a surgery that she didn't exactly need to have. This is exactly why we haven't spayed our Yorkie. We have absolutely no intentions of ever breeding her, but we are committed to keeping her contained while she is in heat(and the 2 weeks after), she never goes out without being on a leash anyways but we are extra careful when she's in heat. So far it hasn't been a huge hassle. Our biggest problem is that we still let her roam around the house while she's in season and we make her wear these little doggie diapers. She really hates them and looks pitiful when she has to wear them. That sad little face she gives us is just pitiful.
With our EM, we are still on the fence with the decision to have him/her altered, but if we do it will not be until after at least a minimum of 2 years.

 

[jcook]

@lauarR - do you never plan on spaying the Yorkie? I've read that on females certain cancer rates go up the longer they remain intact.

 

[LauraR]

I apologize, I didn't really specify that in my post and it DOES give the appearance that I do not intend to ever spay her. She will eventually be spayed but unfortunately she has had health issue after health issue and I am waiting to have her spayed once her health improves(she is scheduled to have all of her baby teeth removed next week and after she has healed she will more than likely need 2-4 of her adult teeth removed and she just recovered from a UTI about 2 months ago). She has had bad reactions to being put under and as of right now we only mildly sedate her for her teeth cleanings. I have been looking for a vet that has experience in altering dogs with anesthetic allergies but haven't had much luck. Right now she is only 2 years old and I would like to have her spayed no later than 4 but it all comes down to the anesthetic issue. I have read that some dogs can develop more of a tolerance to anesthesia as they get older so I am truly hoping that is the case. When I first adopted her from my sister she was only about 5-6 months old, she went in for a teeth cleaning and almost died from the anesthesia. It could have been her size, or the fact that she was still kind of weak from fighting off an infection a month earlier, or they could have screwed up the dosage. I would just hate to risk it until she is in better health and I have a vet more experienced with dogs that have had adverse reactions to anesthetic.


And in regards to our future EM, I suppose I should have rephrased that to "when we have him/her altered". We will eventually as we have no intentions of breeding, but we are debating on whether to do it at 2 years or waiting until 4 or 5. It all depends on if we get a male or female dog.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Laura have they tried the Greyhound protocals with her? The mix of drugs is usually safer.

 

[LauraR]

They haven't. My vet is lacking in the intelligence department so I've asked a few local breeders for some recommendations to good vets in my area. She is going in for her teeth cleanings/extractions but I am going to wait for her larger teeth and spaying until I find a vet that I am more confident in. I will be sure to bring up this method.

 

[ruthcatrin]

A good vet should take your statement that she's had previous problems with sedation and that you are requesting the Greyhound protocals for future cases with little fuss. They may want a record of what drugs she previously was treated with though, so if possible make sure thats in her records.

 

[LauraR]

Thanks for the advice!

 

[ruthcatrin]

No problem. My smaller dog comes from a breed with KNOWN issues with alot of those drugs. Even using the Greyhound protocals they loose a dog periodically to bad reactions. Usually older dogs rather than pups, but still. So its something I've done some digging into!

 

[dsmith91163]

I worry about not fixing him do to the fact ..I heard he would be agressive if you dont fix him under 6 month..so he is getting fix around 5 months ..I am afried to wait 18 months and have issue's with him being agressive toward people and other animals..all my dogs have done well with being fixed under the age of 6 months they are all mixed breeds and now they are aged from 8 to 4 yrs old ..knock on wood no trouble yet..help me please before i go through with the surgery

 

[Smart_Family]

Getting them fixed that young does not guarantee they won't be aggressive. If anything training now will be the best way to help prevent aggression.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Neutering removes hormones. It only affects aggression due to hormones. If your pup is aggressive before the age of 6months it has nothing to do with his hormones because he has no signifigant amount of them yet in his system. Many many dogs are aggressive even though they were neutered early. Hormones affect only one type of aggression, and have nothing to do with the rest of it.

 

[ruthcatrin]

New Neo Mastiff owner with a 13 week old puppy

If you're that worried about him being aggressive you've GOT TO SOCIALIZE HIM. Having him sit on your front steps occasionally to watch passersby isn't socialization. PLEASE socialize and train your dog properly!

A perfect example of how neuter doesn't affect aggression: Neuter does NOT fix agression

 

[Smokeycat]

I worry about not fixing him do to the fact ..I heard he would be agressive if you dont fix him under 6 month..so he is getting fix around 5 months ..I am afried to wait 18 months and have issue's with him being agressive toward people and other animals..all my dogs have done well with being fixed under the age of 6 months they are all mixed breeds and now they are aged from 8 to 4 yrs old ..knock on wood no trouble yet..help me please before i go through with the surgery

I felt the same way as you do. I was terrified that once puberty hit males would get vicious and as such I had my first dog neutered at 5.5 months. When I got Kryten I choose a puppy that was supposed to become a large male and I want him to look like a large male. The only way to get this outcome was to leave him intact until he finishes growing. Kryten is now 13 months and is generally a giant marshmallow with no signs of aggression. He will fight back when pushed but has never instigated any of the scuffles between him and Jiggers. The only real problem I had was he got a little to pushy with small (150lbs).
All my dogs now will remain intact until they have finished (or close to) growing to allow them to develop fully, any health benefits are a welcome bonus.

Edit to add:
Ruthcatrin has it exactly right. Socialization is your best chance of being able to control aggression in any dog. From what I've read most dogs that are considered aggressive are actually mean dogs, they are scared dogs. By getting a dog comfortable in as many situations as possible you can reduce the the number of times that the dog is put into a situation where they don't 'know' the proper behavior.
Going hand in hand with socialization is training. This can take a dog that is unsure of what to do in a situation and when they are told to do something normal it can relegate scary to ok.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Apollo's 2, and intact. He's protective, but he's most definetly not aggressive.....