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What's happening to the Corso?

Caleb

Well-Known Member
I actually kind of know the answer to this question but wanted to see if I could ruffle some feathers. Haven't posted in a while....been really busy moving, hunting and watching a good "old school" 30 inch, thick skinned, rough coated Cane Corso get old and gray. He's 9 yrs old, still happy and I've loved every minute of the 9years I've had him. When I first started looking at the breed around 2000 there were lots of big dogs that were long, tall and had much more stature than the Bullmastiffs and Rottweilers but every dog I see these days is 25 to 27 inches and 130 lbs with thin skin and pit/bullmastiff heads. The old long, tall 28-30 inch dogs of the same 120 -130 lbs with skin like armor and a Labrador/Rottie length coat were a much more utilitarian dog. I guess the AKC knows how to inflict their confirmation standards on good breeds at the cost of everything else (not so much of a guess actually). So lets here it. I'd love some opinions or.....maybe someone else has noticed the Corso transform into 120lb boxers. ??
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
No takers huh? I figured I would log on tonight to get flamed. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just venting some frustrations from being bullied by some of the dog show crowd, and having breeders that I introduced the breed to years ago, now claiming to be Corso experts, that are far from it. This was just a dog, like the Anatolian that was just never designed for breed standards, especially the tight standards outlined today. I realize there's no stopping it now. Just wondered if anyone was picking up on it just from looking at todays dogs, that's all.
 

season

Well-Known Member
I got Solo from a great breeder. That's all I care about. She follows the Italian breed standard and does it very well. I can't control what others do or think. Sh


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't remember ever seeing huge dogs but I guess it depends on where you were looking or at what kennels. I have heard more complaints these days of oversized corso than I have of small ones, but head types do seem to be an issue. We are seeing boxer, bullmastiff, dane and neo and the lack of consistency is an issue, but that won't change for a while with a breed that is just coming out of recovery. It also doesn't help when trends are followed, there is a lack of education in judges, breeders that are putting substandard dogs in front of these judges and judges awarding these dogs instead of excusing them. A vicious cycle to be sure but one no new to other working/guardian breeds to have faced. The AKC and showing isn't the problem, it is the breeders that think a ribbon should replace what is correct. That doesn't fall at the feet of the AKC that falls at the feet of those that are driven by greed and having the pretty ribbons. It doesn't rule everyone but it certainly draws a line that can be hard to straddle if you want to keep a foot in both the functional part of the breed and also the correct type.
I actually kind of know the answer to this question but wanted to see if I could ruffle some feathers. Haven't posted in a while....been really busy moving, hunting and watching a good "old school" 30 inch, thick skinned, rough coated Cane Corso get old and gray. He's 9 yrs old, still happy and I've loved every minute of the 9years I've had him. When I first started looking at the breed around 2000 there were lots of big dogs that were long, tall and had much more stature than the Bullmastiffs and Rottweilers but every dog I see these days is 25 to 27 inches and 130 lbs with thin skin and pit/bullmastiff heads. The old long, tall 28-30 inch dogs of the same 120 -130 lbs with skin like armor and a Labrador/Rottie length coat were a much more utilitarian dog. I guess the AKC knows how to inflict their confirmation standards on good breeds at the cost of everything else (not so much of a guess actually). So lets here it. I'd love some opinions or.....maybe someone else has noticed the Corso transform into 120lb boxers. ??
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
I agree with some of what you are saying. I am just coming at this from a biological and evolutionary stand point. I don't agree with what kennel clubs represent, and I don't put value on the "correct type" so with respect I don't think we will come to any agreement. I just stumbled on some bad practices involving how the kennels clubs allow certain breeders to restructure breeds....and I'm all about introducing new blood. I have no pure -bred fetish, but they need to use the right breeds if they are gonna revamp a tough dog....this definitely means no bullmastiffs, or boxers, both of which are purely ornamental breeds.
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
As long as human nature is present it will always be geared to whom has more control, that won't change but that is a breed club issue not an AKC issue. They do nothing more than register dogs and hold shows/competitions. Bad kennels abound in all breeds and while I don't mind mixes they need to have a purpose, with all the dogs in shelters I don't agree with mixing just for the sake of it. Bullmastiffs and boxers weren't always the way a lot of them are now, just as GSD and Rotties weren't either. There are still some Bullies and Boxers that are bred the way they are meant to be just as there are some Mastiffs that still act like they should. Are the plentiful, nope but doesn't mean they are there. There are lots of things being changed in this breed but that isn't just a result of show breeders, there are any number of BYBers putting out dogs that are unstable and overly fearful/aggressive, that have serious health issues, both of which to me are more important than looks but I am selfish, at the end of the day I still want my dog that is healthy and acts like a corso to look like one as well.
 
I think the major issue with most breeds is they are being shown for conformity and are not working. If they were working 1st and then shown as an after thought we wouldn't see such extreme deviations because people would want what worked better not what was conforming to some unrealistic checklist.

"As long as human nature is present it will always be geared to whom has more control, that won't change..."

Sadly, couldn't agree more. The presence of human nature is usually what's wrong with MOST things.
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
the working side of things is not black and white either. Try to get them to agree on what is working. A corso is listed as one of the most versatile mastiffs, but asked 10 people what that means or what working is to them and you will get varying answers to all. Ask 10 people what "true" temperament is and you will have the same issue. It is not just the conformation side of things, it is the world that has changed for what these breeds were originally bred for.
 
Nothing is ever black and white sadly. Things would be so much easier if it was. There should be a step by step, black and white guide for everything that you can just google up when needed but that's not the case. Once again I totally agree BSCC. As long as the world is turning there will always be change, not always for the better.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Good replies. I have to agree with all of that. Lots of times I am just disagreeable with the way the world turns. :) I guess I am just selfish because I discovered this breed for myself many years ago by accident, in a rustic region and I was excited about something, that it seemed absolutely NO ONE knew about. I'm coming into the market for another dog soon, and I feel like compared to just 5 years ago, the Corso is the latest designer dog. In a small way I feel like something has been taken from me, and that's a bit selfish considering everyone seems to have similar taste. But, I remember, even long after I started studying Corso's, they were reguarded as mongrels by the minions who are infatuated by them now.....Bandogs, they were called. Now those minions are re-writing this romantic history about Roman war dogs....the Canis Pugnax....the Mastino. The Corso made people so much money, so quick that they fabricated it's past, and put them on the fast-track to registry. It's like a Native-American having to sit in on a 2nd grade American history lesson, learning about pilgrims and turkey dinners. I had a good read, about 12 years after the Corso was introduced to the western world and at that time they were still "honestly" speculating what these dogs derived from...mastiffs of the area x shepherd type dogs of the area. These dogs were rugged and utilized for fighting and hunting. They had thicker coats, heavier skin, hocks like a Mastini vs those of boxers or boerbels., not to mention the lack of bulldog, which is what really makes a dog great...for function anyway. I just would have rather seen the first dogs go more in the direction of what the Neo should have been vs what they are becoming.....that's basically all. Please don't get me started on Neo's :) I am saying all this in good nature....because I'm good natured....but if you can't see the direction the Neo's going in ....C'mon.
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
LOL! Not touching the Neo discussion ;) that is a whole different ball game. I am lucky that as one of our BOD members for our breed club is an Italian and was one of the first to own the breed in NA. He was selective who got his dogs and most would have no idea about the lines and pedigrees of them as they come straight from his family's farm. Last summer I was also lucky enough to attend a show that had Stefano Gandolfi and Peppino Accrogliano attend as judges and do a breed seminar. You are right, there are those that are geared more towards the boxer appearance and that is unfortunate but there are still some that are more concerned with correct dogs. I want a dog that has the ability to work all day but still have the substance to be considered a mastiff. It is a fine line to not go too far one way or the other and with us not being so far out of recovery what crops out in a litter can sometimes be a surprise but breeders have to be more rigid about what is allowed to be bred.
 

al capone

Well-Known Member
Amazing thread,very knowledged about the breed.Thank you Mary,Caleb,EverythingEnglishMastiff,Season for the oportunity to learn.
 
I'm learning too. That's one reason I troll the forum as opposed to sleeping as I should be. I'm not going to be getting my next dog anytime soon but I am going to be looking at a few diff breeds in the future. CC, Presa, and Fila among other considerations. I love my couch potato EM's don't get me wrong. They are just a little too laid back though. I went from blue heeler and rat terrier (hyper and drivey) to some the laziest dogs I've ever witnessed. I will never consider a tiny dog ever again. To me lab's are tiny now :lol: and anything smaller is a "micro breed". I need a dog with some more pep, more attitude, more "Do it and I'll bite your face off." Of course, that will be after I have my business up and running and no longer working out of my house. Not going to want "outsiders"(human or canine) coming to my house with a dog like that around. That's why for now my EM's are perfect.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Everybody here is learning. I tend to express my opinions, maybe sometimes where it's not warranted, but I'm just a nobody, and no one is here because they know everything for sure. I don't want to come across like a "know it all" but I can tell you one fact about a lot of these breeds is you would find that temperamentally, they aren't much different than the EM. The websites and breed peddlers will have you believe that they are super guard dogs but I've found most of these breeds to be nothing but teddy bears, especially the Boerbels and Cane Corso. Filas are a bit harder and the presas are all over the board. None are consistant. A lot of breeders would hate for people to know that. Even though I really like all of these breeds, I think the marketing for them is very silly compared to what's real.
 

Joao M

Well-Known Member
I cannot speak about what happens in the US, but in Portugal (my country) the CC breed is at a very complicated moment
Some 10-15 years ago it became "fashion" and some puppy mills and "backyard breeders" immediately took over.
The market was flooded with below average (but very cheap) dogs and the good breeders couldn´t find homes for their puppies and had to reduce drastically the number of litters. Since these dogs were only bred for money their temperament was not what was supposed to be and we started having some problems.
In Spain the situation was similar but not as severe; there are still good CC´s from 2 or 3 breedrs there.
In Portugal, nowadays it is dificult to find a good CC but very easy to find "cc" in websites equivalent to US ciiagslist at 500usd or less.
 

Joao M

Well-Known Member
As a consequence the cane corsos I see in Portugal nowadays are a shadow of the ones I saw 20 years ago
 
Caleb, I like nobodies and opinionated people! Makes for learning opportunities and good conversation. It'd be boring and pointless if everyone knew everything and we all had the same opinion. If that were the case forums like this prob wouldn't even exist!
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Caleb, I like nobodies and opinionated people! Makes for learning opportunities and good conversation. It'd be boring and pointless if everyone knew everything and we all had the same opinion. If that were the case forums like this prob wouldn't even exist!
Thank you. Just take what I post in stride. I'm just trying to add another "prospective". I have a love for these dogs, and what I like to think is and "eye for nonsense". I'm not always forum material, and I don't think that everything here has to be agreeable. I shy away from agreeable posts and tend to engage the arguments, and I've been away for a while. I'm overseas now with little to do but research dogs and get on the forums. :)
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
That's the sad part. When money is the main motivator, everything starts going to shit.
And all too often money is the motivator....and mostly out of necessity, but, individual breeders usually love the breeds they are associated with and overestimate their worth to the breed as a whole. This is usually in line with good intentions, but even some of the best breeders will breed dogs to all their bitches, because of blue ribbons after they clearly made it known that the dog in question wasn't a good specimen temperamentally, functionally, physically, or even of good confirmation. The judges have no clue, or interest in what the dogs function is and in the end blue ribbons are some of the best marketing tools to attract those that do not know any better, who then become self proclaimed experts themselves and in short order, becoming high profile breeders. I live right around the mountain from some of these high profile breeders(I've moved and need to change my profile), and they know EVERYTHING about the breed. I introduced them to the Cane Corso before they even knew how to spell it with my dog and others, and know many breeders personally, which has given me some very unfortunate insight into the development of......the Cane Corso.