What is too protective?

[kguitarchic18]

Our girl is almost 11 months, and I know their second fear stage is around now until 12-14 months. I know that being protective is in her breed and I am fine with that, but there are a few occurrences that I want to make sure she is not being a little too overprotective.

We take her to the park in front of our neighborhood every night to play off leash. She is very well trained and will come right back if called. We had one of our neighbors walking along the street (a decent length from where we were, it was all the way on the other side of the park) and it was almost dark, so I give her that. BUT he was not walking towards us, just walking along the street and she ran at him barking, we called her back and she came, but gave the man a little scare. I know its in her to be protective, and if the man was walking and got closer to us, thats fine. It seems like such a fine line on when to correct her with this behavior. Is it too protective? Or is it pretty normal for her to bark at anyone in her field of view?

She is wary of any new people, but after us interacting with them for a a few mins she warms up and lets them pet and play with her, so I think she is getting better with not being so overprotective with our friends, just want to make sure it doesnt get worse.

 

[khplaw]

She is doing her job! First of all, I would not take a corso off leash anywhere in public simply due to the public's perception of them. Except on the beach at the very end where no one ever is. Sounds to me like she was checking the other guy out, and letting him know that Wonderdog is Here! Almost like an announcement. If she didn't get real close, and did come back when called, sounds like she is learning what YOU will accept. Can I get this close? Closer? Bark louder? Where will YOU draw the line Mama?

Sophie has done that as well, though not off leash. Sometimes I take her out on a lunge line meant for horses and it is heavy and long. Together we learned that our "comport zone" with complete strangers is about 10 feet. With another dog, about 12 feet, and she LOVES children. Went to softball practice yesterday. all kinds of people, large small kids dogs tricycles. the crack of the bat... I was gobsmacked that when she felt anxious she merely sat with some part of her touching some part of me. I will tell her that I see it and it is fine. No worries. I;d say she is just doing her job, and learning what the limits are! Good girl~

 

[angelbears]

I would never take a guardian breed out off leash. Good news is she listened to you.

 

[kguitarchic18]

She is actually really good off leash, you can even have her "down" while playing with others dogs and she will stay down while they play aorund her until you let her "break". If we are walking then she is always on leash, but once we get to the park away from people she stays close and comes when called. If we see another dog walking up with sit her and put her leash back on until they pass, unless they are friendly and come to play. She LOVES all other friendly dogs.

But this guy was probably a good 100 feet away, but at the edge of the park (its a smaller park just in the fron of our neighborhood). She did run up to my husband one night (he ran to the park about 10 mins after we had been there) she didnt know it was him and as soon as she got about 5 feet he tried to touch her and she ran away, then realized it was him and got all excited

 

[musicdeb]

I would never take a guardian breed out off leash. Good news is she listened to you.

Ditto!

 

[broccolini]

Your dog sounds well trained and that's great. It is still not a good idea to let her off leash.

She's doing her job by being protective and she was probably more so because it was at night. As she gets older, she'll likely become less reactive to people at a distance. I'm not 100% sure about Corsos, but I'd guess that she'll also become less likely to change her mind about something she finds threatening just because you call her back.

That's generally why guardian breeds don't make good police/PP dogs. Once they decide to deal with a threat, they are all in. Which is why she should not be off-leash in public. You can never really know what will trigger their guarding instincts. Their idea of a threat doesn't always align with ours and it can lead to a bad situation for you and your dog.

Good luck, she sounds like a really nice dog. Keep in mind that her temperament will continue to change until she's about two. Usually the guardian breeds become more aloof as they reach social maturity. I have TMs so it might be a bit different for Corsos.

 

[cinnamon roll]

This, well except owning a TM part. lol

Maybe there was something about the guy she didn't like nor trust. Maybe he was drinking, maybe he was stressed out an angry. But to me I will always trust my dogs instincts of a person.

Your dog sounds well trained and that's great. It is still not a good idea to let her off leash.

She's doing her job by being protective and she was probably more so because it was at night. As she gets older, she'll likely become less reactive to people at a distance. I'm not 100% sure about Corsos, but I'd guess that she'll also become less likely to change her mind about something she finds threatening just because you call her back.

That's generally why guardian breeds don't make good police/PP dogs. Once they decide to deal with a threat, they are all in. Which is why she should not be off-leash in public. You can never really know what will trigger their guarding instincts. Their idea of a threat doesn't always align with ours and it can lead to a bad situation for you and your dog.

Good luck, she sounds like a really nice dog. Keep in mind that her temperament will continue to change until she's about two. Usually the guardian breeds become more aloof as they reach social maturity. I have TMs so it might be a bit different for Corsos.

 

[el gato diablo]

Your dog sounds well trained and that's great. It is still not a good idea to let her off leash.

She's doing her job by being protective and she was probably more so because it was at night. As she gets older, she'll likely become less reactive to people at a distance. I'm not 100% sure about Corsos, but I'd guess that she'll also become less likely to change her mind about something she finds threatening just because you call her back.

That's generally why guardian breeds don't make good police/PP dogs. Once they decide to deal with a threat, they are all in. Which is why she should not be off-leash in public. You can never really know what will trigger their guarding instincts. Their idea of a threat doesn't always align with ours and it can lead to a bad situation for you and your dog.

Good luck, she sounds like a really nice dog. Keep in mind that her temperament will continue to change until she's about two. Usually the guardian breeds become more aloof as they reach social maturity. I have TMs so it might be a bit different for Corsos.

Agree 100%...

 

[khplaw]

Seems like the concensus is the same. Corsi off leash = potential/likely problem. It is true that as they mature, their nature changes, they DO become more aloof. How they handle a "perceived threat" is what you are actually training into the dog. They should look to YOU when there is an issue but how if they are halfway across the park. The dog may be 100% properly trained but you cannot predict what the ' stranger" will do in response to the dog. And what the dog will respond with.

These dogs, as sweet as they are with their people, have a job to do that is hard wired into their being, and that is to be a guardian. You cannot "unwire" them but you can divert their nature by getting them to look at you, and listen to you and not make an independent judgment. If you think about it, that makes it that much easier for the dog who will know that you the ALPHA are there to rely on and they can relax a little.

The two married attorneys in SFO thought their dogs were well trained and could be off leash (two Pressas) and they killed a person in their apartment floor hallway. Different situation,, different dogs, I know, but the owners did not think there would be a problem.

They say a Corso will not START a fight, but they will FINISH a fight. Why put them in that position? One woman's opinion.

 

[kguitarchic18]

Thanks for all the feedback, right now shes at a stage where she will bark at anyone new, and they are all usually neighbors tha come to to door, or people walking around the park. She will run up and bark, but run away if they try to get to close to her. I know she is still a dog and is unpredictable.

We try to work with her daily even if its 5 mins of training, plus we do park class once a week, where we leave the leash on but give them a down or sit command and walk away. We work on having them stay until called, then she will run right to my side and sit.

 

[kguitarchic18]

And surprisingly, we brought her to a party with us, and we waited until there was only around 10 people. I brought her inside expecting her to bark at everyone, but she ran in all excited, but just a little leary of anyone new. After a few mins of seeing us at ease she was miss social saying hi to everyone.

So yes, the park at night, with a guy walking in a hat where its dark, she was just doing her job of being protective.

 

[Cody]

The two married attorneys in SFO thought their dogs were well trained and could be off leash (two Pressas) and they killed a person in their apartment floor hallway. Different situation,, different dogs, I know, but the owners did not think there would be a problem.
.

Sorry but please do not compare anything to the Dianne Whipple "murder". I suggest doing a bit more research on those "married attorneys". They did not think that their dogs were well trained and harmless, the dogs had a history and those 2 attorneys are still serving jail time for manslaughter. As they should be.
I take my dogs off leash, I am comfortable with their recall and know them well. Black Jack has to run agility naked and I often am in the mountains with them running free. Aurora rarely uses a leash, and will not leave a heel unless I release her.
It is dependant on the individual dog, it's training and your comfort level. I have gone on numerous walks with friends and multiple CC all off leash and never encountered a problem.

 

[khplaw]

[h=4]While attending (and ultimately graduating) law school, we were all required to read about this particular case. This summary is a very sanitized version; the real article is graphic and disturbing. As are the photos.

I personally believe that as a dog owner I have a responsibility to myself, the general public and my dog. I would be devastated if my dog injured another dog or a person. Logistically speaking, a dog bite case can be financially devastating, and even if you prevail, the law may require that the dog be destroyed if that is what the victim requires. It would be lovely to be able to believe that everyone's dogs were as well trained as yours and apparently mine, but that is just not the case. In her short year of life, Sophie has been attacked by two chihuashua and two pit puppies. None of these dogs was on a leash and my dog was. We were walking in our local park which has a sign posted in full view requiring leashes.

Had there not been a sheriff already there, I shudder to think what that whole mess would have turned into. Sophie is off leash on our property and at the very end of the beach where no one ever goes, and that is about it. Not because she isn't well trained but because other people's dogs are not and the bigger dog will always be blamed especially when they look like Corso!

The part that got me is that she stood there and watched the dogs do their worst. How does a person do that?

Robert Edward Noel, Pacific Heights resident and attorney[/h]

Noel said the animals had no history of aggression and had seen the victim on several occasions without acting aggressive. "I've had 80-year-old ladies want to come up and pet them," he said. "The dogs have always been really people-friendly."
He was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and keeping a mischievous animal that killed a human being (a separate felony). He appealed the conviction. He was sentenced to four years in prison, and served a portion of his time; he was released in September 2003 because his sentence was reduced as a result of good behavior and performance of work duties in prison.
In February 2007, he was disbarred by the California State Bar, meaning that he lost his license to practice law in that state. He is on parole at the present time. His appeals were not granted and he has no further right to appeal.
[h=4]Marjorie F. Knoller, attorney at law, wife of Noel, and the person who had "control" of the two dogs[/h]

One of the most unusual details of this death-by-mauling is that Knoller admitted begin present during it -- in no other death-by-dog in recent memory did the owner/keeper/controller make any such admission. She was convicted of the same charges as Noel, plus second degree murder.
At the conclusion of the trial, the judge threw out the murder conviction, and the district attorney filed an appeal of that decision. Knoller filed a cross appeal. She was sentenced to four years in prison.
She was released in January 2004, and is on parole at the present time. She resigned from the California State Bar in January 2007, meaning that she gave up her right to practice law in that state. Her appeal to the California Supreme Court is pending.

 

[khplaw]

While attending (and ultimately graduating) law school, we were all required to read about this particular case.  This summary is a very sanitized version; the real article is graphic and disturbing. As are the photos.;I personally believe that as a dog owner I have a responsibility to myself, the general public and my dog. I would be devastated if my dog injured another dog or a person. Logistically speaking, a dog bite case can be financially devastating, and even if you prevail, the law may require that the dog be destroyed if that is what the victim requires. It would be lovely to be able to believe that everyone's dogs were as well trained as yours and apparently mine, but that is just not the case. In her short year of life, Sophie has been attacked by two chihuashua and two pit puppies. None of these dogs was on a leash and my dog was. We were walking in our local park which has a sign posted in full view requiring leashes. Had there not been a sheriff already there, I shudder to think what that whole mess would have turned into. Sophie is off leash on our property and at the very end of the beach where no one ever goes, and that is about it. Not because she isn't well trained but because other people's dogs are not and the bigger dog will always be blamed especially when they look like Corso!The part that got me is that she stood there and watched the dogs do their worst. How does a person do that?

Robert Edward Noel, Pacific Heights resident and attorney
Noel said the animals had no history of aggression and had seen the victim on several occasions without acting aggressive. "I've had 80-year-old ladies want to come up and pet them," he said. "The dogs have always been really people-friendly. He was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and keeping a mischievous animal that killed a human being (a separate felony). He appealed the conviction. He was sentenced to four years in prison, and served a portion of his time; he was released in September 2003 because his sentence was reduced as a result of good behavior and performance of work duties in prison. In February 2007, he was disbarred by the California State Bar, meaning that he lost his license to practice law in that state. He is on parole at the present time. His appeals were not granted and he has no further right to appeal.

Marjorie F. Knoller, attorney at law, wife of Noel, and the person who had "control" of the two dogs.
One of the most unusual details of this death-by-mauling is that Knoller admitted begin present during it -- in no other death-by-dog in recent memory did the owner/keeper/controller make any such admission. She was convicted of the same charges as Noel, plus second degree murder. At the conclusion of the trial, the judge threw out the murder conviction, and the district attorney filed an appeal of that decision. Knoller filed a cross appeal. She was sentenced to four years in prison.She was released in January 2004, and is on parole at the present time. She resigned from the California State Bar in January 2007, meaning that she gave up her right to practice law in that state. Her appeal to the California Supreme Court is pending.

 

[khplaw]

Not sure how that got posted twice.. Sorry.

 

[kguitarchic18]

SOrry guys, I didn't mean to start a disagreement. I understand both sides, but we are still very close to Zola, and know the right places and situations to let her off leash. And you are right, the sad part is most the time its the dogs off leash that shouldnt be that do the attacking. I almost threatened one man to call animal control as his dog came after us twice growling and I tried to kick it away to protect Zola from hurting it.

We mainly let her off leash at an empty park, and we pay attention to people coming up. For the most part if we see someone we call her over and have her down, and then wait until they leave. But I feel she listens very well and that we have control (I know its never 100%) I just wanted to make sure she isn't overprotecting

 

[Cody]

Is not a disagreement. There are just too many that use the Dianne Whipple case in the wrong context IMO. You are right, the fact that she stood, watched, did nothing but call after the fact says it all, not only as a dog owner but as a human. Then to try to blame the deceased and showing no remorse... Well...
I agree that the majority of people do not have control over their dogs, which is why I am careful and not adverse to kicking a dog that would attack one of mine. An out of control dog can attack my dog whether or not mine are leashed, and mine will not approach other dogs that we do come across. I will protect my dogs, but I will also take them to locations where they are free to be dogs or- run off leash, swim and climb. I am fortunate to live in a location where I can do these things with minimal chance of encountering other dogs. Bears, wolves, cougars yes but we can hear other dogs coming and they can hear us

 

[khplaw]

Exactly, no disagreement here. That may not have been the best example to use, and I apologize if I pushed buttons. You are most fortunate to have several areas to take your dogs. I myself have been known to kick a dog or two defending my leased dog; right with you there. I now tend to walk early or later in the day when the population at the park is less. I posted the article because I wasn't sure people knew or remembered what we were talking about.

All is well, and we are all working to protect our companions!

 

[kguitarchic18]

On the protective note...... do your dogs bark at every little noise? Zola has a "quiet" command, but its been extremely windy the last few days so I know she is probably hearing things outside. BUT even if I knock on the counter with something on accident she goes crazy barking like someone is outside. How do I help her learn to know what bumping around the house is vs a true noise outside?

 

[el gato diablo]

On the protective note...... do your dogs bark at every little noise? Zola has a "quiet" command, but its been extremely windy the last few days so I know she is probably hearing things outside. BUT even if I knock on the counter with something on accident she goes crazy barking like someone is outside. How do I help her learn to know what bumping around the house is vs a true noise outside?

She is young and will become accustomed to the sounds that come with wind, or a storm or other non-frequent sounds...mine will give a single big boy bark and go to investigate sounds he isn't familiar with yet, but after he learns them...he is more at ease and calm. CC are supremely intelligent...she is merely doing exactly what she is programmed to do, and something she will most certainly refine by way of that high level of intelligence as she gains more age and experience.